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Surface To Air Missiles | Terror in the Sky.

sir i guess you have no idea about russian SAM capability<just need to google the s-400 air defence system> sir sehbazi is the most knowledgable member here about this and i fully endorse his views.

thanx:guns:

very true, they are among the best dear but the point you have missed is that nightcrawler was just talking about the SAMs in use with the iraqies, they were definately very old technology and could not have matched the next generation F18z or the F15zz

the S400 surely will, even the S300 is good for almost any hostile aircraft!
 
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I agree with your overall gist. Concernging first Gulf war, you may know that Iraqi also had western SAMs like Roland and Crotale. The Russian systems were SA-2, SA-3, SA-6 the short range SA-8 and then the shoulder-fired SA-7, SA-14 and some site even suggest the presence of SA-16. SA-16 is even now a modern MANPADS system.

Yes by 1990, these Russian and Western SAMs were not the state-of-the-art SAMs but then what could have Iraq done? buy S-300 in 1989? I mean this is the limitation of SAM systems.......You need a strong air force.

Unlike ME countries, the serbs did show some ingenuity and shot down F-117 stealth fighter with an old SA-3 Russian SAM which had been locally modified. But even this success was more attributable to intelligence information on Serb part and use of F-117 like a bus shuttle service on USAF part. But we know that even Serbs did not stop the NATO onslaught with these SAMs.

Recently Georgia did succeed in bringing down some Russian aircrafts with SA-11 Gadfly which again is not a state-of-the-art system in 2009. I mean that SAMs do score some kills but they are unable to turn the tables of the battle by themselves. If you have the funds problem, then priority should be given to upgrading your fighter fleet and bringing in some force multipliers like AEW, IFR etc.

shehbazi2001;sir
i think pakistan needs 2 way defence theory against any air threat!
1 . yes off course there should be a efficient air force, watching our skies, but its equaly important to have saficiant SAMS in place, as for your giving
maths, i guss LONG RANGE SAMS are far more cheeper thn , J-10's, F-16's?;):azn:
AS PAF needs more stamina , & more focus to fight in the air, i guss it would be better to , let frist hour of enemy air raid open to LONG RANGE SAMS!
& LET 2ND STRIKE to our paf fighters?
 
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Any news of the 30 km sam being developed in Pakistan?

Name, type, dates, etc.
 
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The only aircraft that the S-400 wouldn't be able to bring down would probably be the Raptor but then again when would it ever have the opportunity to test it.
Pakistan need a new generation SAM but i doubt Russia would sell this to them b/c of India. Are there any European/ Chinese SAM's that can match the S-400?
 
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The only aircraft that the S-400 wouldn't be able to bring down would probably be the Raptor but then again when would it ever have the opportunity to test it.
Pakistan need a new generation SAM but i doubt Russia would sell this to them b/c of India. Are there any European/ Chinese SAM's that can match the S-400?

Sorry to tell you this but even S-300PMU2 is able to shot down F-22 ramptor very easily! :usflag:!!
 
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The only aircraft that the S-400 wouldn't be able to bring down would probably be the Raptor but then again when would it ever have the opportunity to test it.
Pakistan need a new generation SAM but i doubt Russia would sell this to them b/c of India. Are there any European/ Chinese SAM's that can match the S-400?

no its not so, the only advantage the F22 have is of stealth, the russian anti-stealth technology is said to be very advanced and the S-400 will have no problem bringing down the Raptor, but nonetheless the point is it may never get a chance to test itself!!

as far as the chines or European replacements are concerned, the european may prove to be quite costly, the chines still have to develop a S400 of there own!!

the point is that the S300 is also very very good system, yes the S400 is the new generation system but the S300 is also heavily modified by the chines to turn it into a state-of-the-art system,

China has bought the S-300PMU-1 and are licensed to manufacture it under the name Hongqi-10 (HQ-10). China is also the first customer of S-300PMU-2 and may be using the S-300V under the name Hongqi HQ-18.[16] China also built an upgraded version of the HQ-10 labelled the HQ-15 with the maximum range upgraded from 150 km (93 mi) to 200 km (124 mi). There are unconfirmed reports that claim this version is the Chinese manufactured S-300PMU-2.[17][18] The total number of the S-300PMU/1/2 and HQ-15/18 batteries in PLA are approximately 40 and 60 respectively, in the year 2008. The total number of the missiles is well above 1600, with about 300 launcher platforms.[18] 5 of such SAM battalions are deployed and in active duty around Beijing region, 6 battalions in Taiwan strait region and rest battalions in other major cities like Shanghai, Chengdu and Dalian. Two Rif (SA-N-6) systems were purchased in 2002 for the Chinese Navy for the Type 051C Destroyers.

also the S300 has been greatly modified into number of different variants and one of them should prove good enough for the Pakistani Requirment!
 
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sir i guess you have no idea about russian SAM capability<just need to google the s-400 air defence system> sir sehbazi is the most knowledgable member here about this and i fully endorse his views.

thanx:guns:


yes i know some thing about S-400 air defence system last year it presented in russian defence excibiton some middle eastern countries are also interested for buying it most advance thing in S-400 it can detect multipile targets simtanously on very high altitudes and one very good thing in it it can detect american and any stealth fighter jets in the world russia specially made it to detect american stealth fighter jets in very high altitudes but it is expansive to but we cannot get them from russia for sure becoz on one hand russians are helping indians on stealth fighter jets they will never sell it to pakistan becoz indians dont want them to sell us but we can get it from ukraine but first ukraine have to buy it for medium range buk 52 should be great THAAD is also good to but cannot detect stealth fighter jets
 
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yes i know some thing about S-400 air defence system last year it presented in russian defence excibiton some middle eastern countries are also interested for buying it most advance thing in S-400 it can detect multipile targets simtanously on very high altitudes and one very good thing in it it can detect american and any stealth fighter jets in the world russia specially made it to detect american stealth fighter jets in very high altitudes but it is expansive to but we cannot get them from russia for sure becoz on one hand russians are helping indians on stealth fighter jets they will never sell it to pakistan becoz indians dont want them to sell us but we can get it from ukraine but first ukraine have to buy it for medium range buk 52 should be great THAAD is also good to but cannot detect stealth fighter jets

Super Falcon; sir
i guss its better to get, up graded chinese version of S-3OOs , WITH some of thier home build , productions...like HQ-12, HQ-10, HQ-9s! for the mean time?;)
 
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Super Falcon; sir
i guss its better to get, up graded chinese version of S-3OOs , WITH some of thier home build , productions...like HQ-12, HQ-10, HQ-9s! for the mean time?;)

yes, perhaps the S400 may not be available to us at the moment, i think Pakistan must get the chines version of S300 ie the HQ10. china have also modified the system into number of configurations so one of them may well be good for our requirment,,

getting it from Russia wont be a very good option, not because it will be difficult to get them from there but also as i think it wont be suitable! i have heared something as that in the Iraq war the french gave the codes of the SAMz to the Us forces so as neutrilizing them!! i dont know the truth in this news but i have a feeling that this can be done!
so for me the Chines versions are going to be the best!!

:pakistan:
 
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Perhaps regarding the sales of Chinese tech with regards to SAM I have come with following document & have highlighted Chinese Sales to Pakistan & Iran. I am quiet amazed to see Chinese HQ-2B SAM system being given to Iran in the late 1990s
 
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yes, perhaps the S400 may not be available to us at the moment, i think Pakistan must get the chines version of S300 ie the HQ10. china have also modified the system into number of configurations so one of them may well be good for our requirment,,

getting it from Russia wont be a very good option, not because it will be difficult to get them from there but also as i think it wont be suitable! i have heared something as that in the Iraq war the french gave the codes of the SAMz to the Us forces so as neutrilizing them!! i dont know the truth in this news but i have a feeling that this can be done!
so for me the Chines versions are going to be the best!!

:pakistan:

arsalanaslam123; sir
S-400 is the best option, in the world but as it belongs to russia, i realy dont see any, deal happening in near future!
i guss , pakistan needs a mix up SAMs, & they should be chosen due to different locations, for example all the pakarmy, PAF, bases needs HQ-10 OR HQ-9, including the our nuclear sites, while other locations can be protected by HQ-64 (LY-60) Surface-to-Air Missile !;):tup::agree:

Land-Based SAM Ship-Based SAM
HQ-64 (LY-60) Surface-to-Air Missile

Key Information
Chinese Name: HongQi-64 (HQ-64)
Export Name: LieYing-60 (LY-60)
Contractor: Shanghai Academy of Space Flight Technology (CASC 8th Academy)
Service Status: In service with the PLAAF :enjoy:

Summary

The HQ-64 surface-to-air missile (SAM) was developed in the 1990s by the Shanghai Academy of Space Flight Technology, based on the Italian Alenia Aspide missile technology. The missile is available in both land- and ship-based versions, and has been promoted to the export market under the designation LY-60. The missile was previously thought to be for export only, but recent Internet-source photos confirmed that the missile is now in service with the SAM troops of the PLA Air Force (PLAAF) for short- to medium-range air defence role

Development History

The Aspide was derived from the U.S. AIM-7 Sparrow semi-active radar-homing medium-range air-to-air missile (MRAAM), but with a monopulse seeker replacing the conic scan seeker for improved accuracy and better resistance to jamming. The Aspide emulated the United States&#8217; practice with the Sparrow to have evolved from an air-to-air missile into a multi-purpose missile that can be launched from land-, ship- and aerial-platforms.;)

China obtained a small number of the Italian Alenia Aspide missile in the 1980s, and later signed an agreement to co-produce the missile under license. However, due to the arms embargo imposed by the E.U. in 1989, the co-production of the Aspide missile was cancelled. However, Chinese engineers used the Aspide technology to develop an indigenous model with similar performance. The air-to-air version of the missile was later commissioned under the designation PL-11, while the surface-to-air version of the missile became the HQ-64/LY-60.:china::tup:

Design

The HQ-64 was designed to engage low-/medium-altitude fast jet targets, low-flying helicopters, and sea-skimming anti-ship missiles. The missile is guided by the radio command with artificial interference capability. It was claimed to be the only medium-low-altitude air defence missile in the world that uses microprocessor intelligent module technology.

The surveillance radar detects the target aircraft and then hands it over to the appropriate tracking/illumination radar unit for the engagement. The system continuous wave semi-active homing guidance principles, and, with the allocated assets, the battery can process up to 40 targets, track 12 and engage three of them simultaneously. The use of the moving target tracking processing system and frequency agility technology also gives the system good anti-jamming capability. System reaction time is 9 seconds.

Deployment

A typical land-based HQ-64 battery fire unit comprises one 4X4 truck-mounted surveillance radar, three 4X4 truck-mounted tracking/illumination radars, one emergency power supply vehicle, and six 6X6 truck-mounted transporter-launcher platforms. Each of the launch platform has five ready to launch missiles in individual sealed containers.

The fire unit is complemented by a technical support unit which comprises a transport and reloading vehicle, a test vehicle, an electronic maintenance vehicle, an electromechanical maintenance vehicle, a tools support vehicle, a spares and meter vehicle, and a power supply vehicle.

Specifications

Missile dimensions: Length 3.89m; Diameter 0.208m; Wingspan 0.68m
Launch weight: 220kg
Propulsion: Single-stage solid rocket
Operating altitude: 0.03~12Km
Operating range: 1~18km
Maximum speed: Mach 4.0
Guidance: Semi-active radar
Warhead: HE, prefabricated steel ball fragmentation type
System reaction time: 9 sec
Single shot hit probability: 60~80&#37;

besides, this HQ-12 (KS-1) Surface-to-Air Missile System is another fine contender, for the job in pakistan.






HQ-12 (KS-1) Surface-to-Air Missile System


The KS-1 (Kaishan-1) is a medium- to long-range, all-altitude surface-to-air missile (SAM) system developed by China Jiangnan Space Industry Co. (also known as Base 061). The KS-1 development programme began in the early 1980s to replace the ageing HQ-2 (Chinese copy of the Russian SA-2 Guideline). The first test firing of the KS-1 reportedly took place in 1989 and the missile was first revealed to the public at the 1991 Paris Air Show. The development of the KS-1 was completed in 1994, but the missile failed to attract any customer from either domestic or international market.



The improved KS-1A was introduced in the late 1990s. The KS-1A features a truck-mounted mobile launcher replacing the original fixed launcher, and a new target acquisition/tracking radar. The missile has been marketed by China National Precision Machinery Import and Export Corporation (CPMIEC) to foreign customers since 2001. In 2005, a senior officer of Malaysia's armed forces said that Malaysia had in principle agreed to purchase the KS-1A missile from China. Both parties have signed a memorandum of understanding beforehand and such purchase will be listed into Malaysia's ninth development plan.

The PLA has been testing the KS-1 since the mid-1990s. However, the repeated delay in the commissioning of the missile indicated that the PLA was not entirely satisfied with the missile&#8217;s performance. During the exhibition at the Chinese Revolution Military Museum in July/August 2007 to mark the 80th anniversary of the PLA, a KS-1A missile launch vehicle and a guidance station were displayed to the public. During the same exhibition, a photo confirmed that the military designation of the KS-1 is HQ-12. This may suggest that the missile is now in operational service with the PLA.

Based on the second- (upper-) stage of the HQ-2, the single-chamber dual thrust, solid-fuelled missile, weighing 886kg, can engage targets flying as low as 0.5km and as high as 25km, has a slant range of 7km to 42km (KS-1A 50km) and a maximum speed of 1,200m/s. The radio-command KS-1 was designed primarily to engage aircraft and helicopters, but also has limited capability against air-to-surface missiles and other air-launched precision guidance weapons. A typical battery would consist of one radar and guidance station and four launchers with eight missiles ready to fire and 18 in reserve.

The basic variant of the KS-1 was launched from a fixed four-leg pedestal launcher developed from the HQ-2 launcher. Each launcher has two ready-to-fire missiles mounted on slant launch-rails. The improved KS-1A is launched from a mobile launcher mounted on a 6X6 truck, each carrying two missiles mounted on slant launch-rails. In the latest improved variant the two missiles are carried and launched from two box-launchers, allowing better protection and easier maintenance.

A range of guidance stations have been developed for the KS-1 missile system. The basic variant KS-1 uses a SJ-202 (some reports suggested that it was actually SJ-212) 3D phased-array target acquisition/tracking and missile guidance station with multi-tracking and multi-engagement capabilities. The control station and the phased-array radar are mounted on a six-wheel trailer. The SJ-202 is the first Chinese indigenous 3D phased array radar, featuring a search range of 115km, a tracing range of 80km and a guiding range of 50km. The radar is possibly working at G-band, being able to guide six missiles to attack three to six targets. It is also said to have an impressive anti-jamming capability. This radar could also be integrated with the older HQ-2 SAM.

An alternative guidance station is the H-200, which also features phased-array target/acquisition and tracking radar capable of guiding six missiles to attack three targets. The station is mounted on a larger 8-wheel trailer. The same guidance was also displayed during the 2007 PLA exhibition.

Specifications

Missile dimensions: length 5.6m; Diameter 0.4m; Wingspan 1.2m
Launch weight: 900kg
Propulsion: Solid rocket booster
Operating altitude: 0.5~25Km
Operating range: 7~42km, or(KS-1A) 5~50km
Maximum speed: 1,200m/s
Missile manoeuvrability: 20G
Guidance: Radar command
Warhead: 100kg HE fragmentation, with radio frequency proximity fuse
Single shot hit probability: N/A
Max target manoeuvring capability: 4~5G
 
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Perhaps regarding the sales of Chinese tech with regards to SAM I have come with following document & have highlighted Chinese Sales to Pakistan & Iran. I am quiet amazed to see Chinese HQ-2B SAM system being given to Iran in the late 1990s

nightcrawler;sir
due to your , posted document.. it shows that USA byed f-7 aircrafts from , china!
i am really , asstonished!plz check it out!:eek::disagree:
i am not fleeing well with your posted document.:disagree:
 
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nightcrawler;sir
due to your , posted document.. it shows that USA byed f-7 aircrafts from , china!
i am really , asstonished!plz check it out!:eek::disagree:
i am not fleeing well with your posted document.:disagree:
Respected sir,
Perhaps you have read the bottom line of the document regarding USA buying planes from China. The line goes as:
"The United States purchased arms from China for training purposes"
I think for training purpose you have to keep your costs as low as possible that is why USA may had opted for Chinese F-7
 
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Respected sir,
Perhaps you have read the bottom line of the document regarding USA buying planes from China. The line goes as:
"The United States purchased arms from China for training purposes"
I think for training purpose you have to keep your costs as low as possible that is why USA may had opted for Chinese F-7

nightcrawler;sir
plz make your mind clear about the fact, that even for traning purpose , USA has far better technology thn china!:disagree::lol:
USA never buyed any aircraft for any purpose from china, the document , you putted in has a lots of errors, sir plz , dont put documents like that.;)
thanks
 
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I think its not an error may be for evaluation (to know how capable it is). For your information US also bought a S-300V from Russia for evaluation.
 
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