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Sukhoi PAK-FA / FGFA: Updates,News & Discussions

Composites?, I dont know if we are better but we are at par with anybody in composites. apart from fighters we have integrated composites to even missiles and rockets.
But I wasnt pointing at what you have highlighted, my suggestion was to improve our industrial infrastrcture so that we can get more work share.
yes on that level i am totally with u
even if their composites are a tad better,we must opt for our own as they are good enough themselves.
as far as avionics go they will be made by rostec corporation subsidary uomz.so we will have no say in that.
we cannot compete in the mission computers too as we cannot manufacture mdpu on our own(i think that)
but we should!!
then come tires,iff systems,engine starters,obogs,parachute..........................we must at least make these things
 
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yes on that level i am totally with u
even if their composites are a tad better,we must opt for our own as they are good enough themselves.
as far as avionics go they will be made by rostec corporation subsidary uomz.so we will have no say in that.
we cannot compete in the mission computers too as we cannot manufacture mdpu on our own(i think that)
but we should!!
then come tires,iff systems,engine starters,obogs,parachute..........................we must at least make these things

the LCA mission computer is foreign?
 
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the LCA mission computer is foreign?
no no
even su-30 mki one is indian but they are multiple units and thus lack sensor fusion but the ones on 5 th gen will use customised chips with single powerful unit for sensor fusion.
i don't think we have that capability yet as we cannot use intel or amd chips as the plane is russian!!
so they are gonna use the elbrus processors manufactured under contract in taiwan(thats the rumour)
 
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Composites?, I dont know if we are better but we are at par with anybody in composites. apart from fighters we have integrated composites to even missiles and rockets.
But I wasnt pointing at what you have highlighted, my suggestion was to improve our industrial infrastrcture so that we can get more work share.

The workshare can only increase with time, since we have to get the basic capabilties on our own first as you correctly pointed out, but have to learn about such NG aerodynamics, design, let alone about the techs and capabilities first. That can only be done by getting LCA done on the one side and getting co-developments or NG techs on the other side.

Simple example are the MFDs, we already have indigenous MFDs in MKIs, are developing once that are equal to Su35 and current T50 MFDs, but also can get the NG touchscreen display via the HALBIT JV. Similarly, the MAWS, RWR, jammers... should be either developed indigenously, where we already have a good development base, or jointly developed to get even better techs. Another important point will be IRST, or other passiv detection and targeting systems, where the Russians can't offer similar advanced techs, that we can get through our access to foreign techs. Again chances for joint developments and increase the non Russian part of the FGFA.
However, it was clear from the start that in design, radar or engine developments, there won't be any important contribution from our side and that's exactly why we needed such a co-development.
 
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The workshare can only increase with time, since we have to get the basic capabilties on our own first as you correctly pointed out, but have to learn about such NG aerodynamics, design, let alone about the techs and capabilities first. That can only be done by getting LCA done on the one side and getting co-developments or NG techs on the other side.

Simple example are the MFDs, we already have indigenous MFDs in MKIs, are developing once that are equal to Su35 and current T50 MFDs, but also can get the NG touchscreen display via the HALBIT JV. Similarly, the MAWS, RWR, jammers... should be either developed indigenously, where we already have a good development base, or jointly developed to get even better techs. Another important point will be IRST, or other passiv detection and targeting systems, where the Russians can't offer similar advanced techs, that we can get through our access to foreign techs. Again chances for joint developments and increase the non Russian part of the FGFA.
However, it was clear from the start that in design, radar or engine developments, there won't be any important contribution from our side and that's exactly why we needed such a co-development.

You know the first thing that came to my mind after reading your post is, what if Russians are not interested in allowing foreign techs on their plane. What if they just played the card for money. Eventually Indians will replace the Russian avionics with some of our own. But just think about it for a sec and might be the reason for delay!
 
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You know the first thing that came to my mind after reading your post is, what if Russians are not interested in allowing foreign techs on their plane. What if they just played the card for money. Eventually Indians will replace the Russian avionics with some of our own. But just think about it for a sec and might be the reason for delay!

Nobody in the world thinks Russians invited Indians into the program for our Tech. LOL.

It was obviously for our money. Once they receive our money in exchange for some worthless promise it will be Vikramaditya all over again :lol:

Is there anyone here who things otherwise ? :disagree:

Only the MoD is back to square one, playing dumb charades all over again.
 
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Nobody in the world thinks Russians invited Indians into the program for our Tech. LOL.

It was obviously for our money. Once they receive our money in exchange for some worthless promise it will be Vikramaditya all over again :lol:

Is there anyone here who things otherwise ? :disagree:

Only the MoD is back to square one, playing dumb charades all over again.

Dont jump into anything right now.
 
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The workshare can only increase with time, since we have to get the basic capabilties on our own first as you correctly pointed out, but have to learn about such NG aerodynamics, design, let alone about the techs and capabilities first. That can only be done by getting LCA done on the one side and getting co-developments or NG techs on the other side.

Simple example are the MFDs, we already have indigenous MFDs in MKIs, are developing once that are equal to Su35 and current T50 MFDs, but also can get the NG touchscreen display via the HALBIT JV. Similarly, the MAWS, RWR, jammers... should be either developed indigenously, where we already have a good development base, or jointly developed to get even better techs. Another important point will be IRST, or other passiv detection and targeting systems, where the Russians can't offer similar advanced techs, that we can get through our access to foreign techs. Again chances for joint developments and increase the non Russian part of the FGFA.
However, it was clear from the start that in design, radar or engine developments, there won't be any important contribution from our side and that's exactly why we needed such a co-development.


all the tech u posted here will be 100% russian like irst,maws,rwr's etc

we cannot source such advanced tech from anywhere else as none except northrop grumann,bae systems and thales like companies have them

no one will give that to us,forget it.

Dont jump into anything right now.


pls wake up

that guy is 100% right.we have nothing to contribute and as pointed out by me earlier even mission computers won't be indian simply because we haven't even started the process.

russians have developed the avionics of pakfa themselves without us contributing anything even before contract is signed.

just go to drdo site and then go to russian sites like rostec.com and u will find why we cannot contribute
 
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The workshare can only increase with time, since we have to get the basic capabilties on our own first as you correctly pointed out, but have to learn about such NG aerodynamics, design, let alone about the techs and capabilities first. That can only be done by getting LCA done on the one side and getting co-developments or NG techs on the other side.

Simple example are the MFDs, we already have indigenous MFDs in MKIs, are developing once that are equal to Su35 and current T50 MFDs, but also can get the NG touchscreen display via the HALBIT JV. Similarly, the MAWS, RWR, jammers... should be either developed indigenously, where we already have a good development base, or jointly developed to get even better techs. Another important point will be IRST, or other passiv detection and targeting systems, where the Russians can't offer similar advanced techs, that we can get through our access to foreign techs. Again chances for joint developments and increase the non Russian part of the FGFA.
However, it was clear from the start that in design, radar or engine developments, there won't be any important contribution from our side and that's exactly why we needed such a co-development.


have u seen the heavy duty equipment of pakfa(of course u have)......

they have made 4 aesas already and are undergoing testing
maws(uv) are ready................6 are installed throughout
rwr have been sewn into the body
it has atleast 2 dircm's
3 frontal aesas and a rear one with 2 on lerx(l band)

and tell me where was india in all this??



another point is all these things will be better than any other 4.5 jet out there whether rafale or anything.

on the question of composites and ram do u really believe in the bullshit that we are better than them??comeon

yes we can contribute heavily in mfd's and cockpit layout and even composites but thats pretty much all we can do

The 5th Generation Is Cursed
Not sure if already posted. Interesting as it shows what Russia is offering and what india is looking for.


don't believe these bullshit articles

first its assuming it to be rival with f-22??!!

now i don't care what anyone on this forum says but
1)f-22 is 10-12 years old
2)apg-77 however advanced it was 12 years ago simply cannot match performance of
newer stuff like apg-81
3)no irst
4)sensor fusion way less compared to f-35 and even pakfa will easily surpass it due to
chips being available
5)on 180 odd are available



moral----------focus on f-35 as the main rival and not f-22
 
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Until the agreement is signed between India and Russia nothing will be clear. Also, as with other JVs with Russia what is happening behind the scene, no one will know.
 
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General designer "Saturn" Yuri Shmotin "engine of the second stage of the fifth-generation aircraft will bring a new life"
Shmotin.jpg


One of the major challenges currently facing the Russian aircraft engine building is the development of the second stage engine for the aircraft PAK FA (T-50). Most of the work on the creation of this engine performs Rybinsk "Saturn."

About that, at what stage is the process of creating this engine, which features a new plane will become the "heart" told "Interfax-AVN," Chief Designer "Saturn" Yuri SHMOTIN.

- Yuri, tell me what should be the engine for the fifth generation fighter aircraft? What are its main features?

- Fifth generation fighter aircraft T-50 is not just a fighter, bomber or attack aircraft. This multi-purpose aircraft. Such aircraft should be given a new "heart", which will make it highly maneuverable, fast, economical and able to withstand competitors such as American F-22 and F-35.

The engine for the fifth generation aircraft will be different from the previous generation increased engine specific impulse, lower weight, lower specific fuel consumption and the presence of new solutions for low visibility. Thus it should be relatively inexpensive to operate and maintain. "Saturn" is now working on this engine.

- How components and units of the new engine is given special attention in the development? What is the biggest challenge for engineers?

- In aircraft engines, everything is important. One of the most complicated engine components is a high-pressure turbine. It was given to make the turbine is operated at a temperature level at which the metallic nickel alloys simply melted. This work was completed successfully.

Aircraft engine is the heart of the high pressure compressor. Its level of perfection directly depend all the main characteristics of the engine. The amount of detail in the new high-pressure compressor, we were able to reduce by almost half compared with the previous stage compressor, with a significant increase in performance provided by one stage. The cost of manufacturing such a compressor will not exceed the cost of manufacturing the engine HPC fourth generation. And it is subject to the application of new materials and technologies.

Deciding to these and other challenges, we will get to a gas generator with a new level of performance that will be the basis for a new engine family. Characteristics of the gas generator units, such as the effectiveness of the ARC, increased on average by more than four percent, and on a number of modes and eight. In fact, it is a revolution in engine, because determines the possibility of creating an engine with an enormous reserve of development for traction.

- What structural materials preferred for a new engine?

- Without fundamentally impossible to provide new materials are the characteristics that we make to the new generation of GTE. The specialists of "Saturn" is a good experience and the impact of new materials developed by the All-Russian Scientific Research Institute of Aviation Materials (VIAM).

In the first place, it certainly blade high-temperature nickel alloys. Turbine blade - it is a unique product. It represents the complex spatial structure which must operate at temperatures above 2000 K.

There are also proprietary materials "Saturn." We offer them for a new generation engine. These materials make it possible to increase the half life of the engine at the same temperatures.

Today much is said about the use of composite materials. The new engine for the PAK FA applied composites that are built not only on the polymer matrix of the cold, as well as items created by high compositions. These works "Saturn" is already long enough.

- Do not forget that everything is new and modern with time obsolete. Is there a possibility of it generated by the engine of modernization?

- Of course. Concurrently with the development work on the engine of the fifth generation we build backlog, which will help develop the engine is not only ten, but at 30, maybe even 50 years ahead.

Today in "Saturn" conducted extensive research on the development of fifth-generation engine using the technology, which is called "variable cycle engine." The studies that say that at a certain transformation engine thermodynamics through design changes can significantly improve engine performance at subsonic and supersonic flight regimes. One of these transformations can be a third application of the circuit. All this is provided.

- How will affect the installation of new engines on the flight characteristics of the fifth generation fighter? Feel the difference whether the pilot, the plane peresevshy with the engine of the first stage of a plane with the engine of the second stage?

- The new engine is fundamentally different from previous products of the first stage. Of course, the pilot will immediately feel the difference in traction. Plane with the new engine will become more docile and can quickly react to the actions of the pilot. In fact, the engine of the second stage is to give the T-50 aircraft to a new life.

- Yuri, it is known that the PAK FA is already being tested. What engines are equipped with the first prototypes?

Now prototypes completed the first phase of the motor, which in engineering circles is known as the product 117. In fact, it is the result of deep development engine family AL-31, which is installed on the aircraft today Su-27 family.

Of course, it's a great engine, which is a bestseller and is built on the basic principles and ideas of the design bureau Arkhip Cradles. But it's still a step motor 4 +.

Google Translate
 
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General designer "Saturn" Yuri Shmotin "engine of the second stage of the fifth-generation aircraft will bring a new life"
Shmotin.jpg


One of the major challenges currently facing the Russian aircraft engine building is the development of the second stage engine for the aircraft PAK FA (T-50). Most of the work on the creation of this engine performs Rybinsk "Saturn."

About that, at what stage is the process of creating this engine, which features a new plane will become the "heart" told "Interfax-AVN," Chief Designer "Saturn" Yuri SHMOTIN.

- Yuri, tell me what should be the engine for the fifth generation fighter aircraft? What are its main features?

- Fifth generation fighter aircraft T-50 is not just a fighter, bomber or attack aircraft. This multi-purpose aircraft. Such aircraft should be given a new "heart", which will make it highly maneuverable, fast, economical and able to withstand competitors such as American F-22 and F-35.

The engine for the fifth generation aircraft will be different from the previous generation increased engine specific impulse, lower weight, lower specific fuel consumption and the presence of new solutions for low visibility. Thus it should be relatively inexpensive to operate and maintain. "Saturn" is now working on this engine.

- How components and units of the new engine is given special attention in the development? What is the biggest challenge for engineers?

- In aircraft engines, everything is important. One of the most complicated engine components is a high-pressure turbine. It was given to make the turbine is operated at a temperature level at which the metallic nickel alloys simply melted. This work was completed successfully.

Aircraft engine is the heart of the high pressure compressor. Its level of perfection directly depend all the main characteristics of the engine. The amount of detail in the new high-pressure compressor, we were able to reduce by almost half compared with the previous stage compressor, with a significant increase in performance provided by one stage. The cost of manufacturing such a compressor will not exceed the cost of manufacturing the engine HPC fourth generation. And it is subject to the application of new materials and technologies.

Deciding to these and other challenges, we will get to a gas generator with a new level of performance that will be the basis for a new engine family. Characteristics of the gas generator units, such as the effectiveness of the ARC, increased on average by more than four percent, and on a number of modes and eight. In fact, it is a revolution in engine, because determines the possibility of creating an engine with an enormous reserve of development for traction.

- What structural materials preferred for a new engine?

- Without fundamentally impossible to provide new materials are the characteristics that we make to the new generation of GTE. The specialists of "Saturn" is a good experience and the impact of new materials developed by the All-Russian Scientific Research Institute of Aviation Materials (VIAM).

In the first place, it certainly blade high-temperature nickel alloys. Turbine blade - it is a unique product. It represents the complex spatial structure which must operate at temperatures above 2000 K.

There are also proprietary materials "Saturn." We offer them for a new generation engine. These materials make it possible to increase the half life of the engine at the same temperatures.

Today much is said about the use of composite materials. The new engine for the PAK FA applied composites that are built not only on the polymer matrix of the cold, as well as items created by high compositions. These works "Saturn" is already long enough.

- Do not forget that everything is new and modern with time obsolete. Is there a possibility of it generated by the engine of modernization?

- Of course. Concurrently with the development work on the engine of the fifth generation we build backlog, which will help develop the engine is not only ten, but at 30, maybe even 50 years ahead.

Today in "Saturn" conducted extensive research on the development of fifth-generation engine using the technology, which is called "variable cycle engine." The studies that say that at a certain transformation engine thermodynamics through design changes can significantly improve engine performance at subsonic and supersonic flight regimes. One of these transformations can be a third application of the circuit. All this is provided.

- How will affect the installation of new engines on the flight characteristics of the fifth generation fighter? Feel the difference whether the pilot, the plane peresevshy with the engine of the first stage of a plane with the engine of the second stage?

- The new engine is fundamentally different from previous products of the first stage. Of course, the pilot will immediately feel the difference in traction. Plane with the new engine will become more docile and can quickly react to the actions of the pilot. In fact, the engine of the second stage is to give the T-50 aircraft to a new life.

- Yuri, it is known that the PAK FA is already being tested. What engines are equipped with the first prototypes?

Now prototypes completed the first phase of the motor, which in engineering circles is known as the product 117. In fact, it is the result of deep development engine family AL-31, which is installed on the aircraft today Su-27 family.

Of course, it's a great engine, which is a bestseller and is built on the basic principles and ideas of the design bureau Arkhip Cradles. But it's still a step motor 4 +.

Google Translate



will have 5 stage compressor compared to 9 on al-31
will be 150 kg lighter than product 117
approx 176 kn thrust
 
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Composites?, I dont know if we are better but we are at par with anybody in composites. apart from fighters we have integrated composites to even missiles and rockets.
But I wasnt pointing at what you have highlighted, my suggestion was to improve our industrial infrastrcture so that we can get more work share.
Can India really make carbon fibre? Or only mould fiber with imported fiber sheet (or filament)?

Only US, Japan , China (maybe Russia) can claim they can really make carbon fiber and carbon fiber composite.
 
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