Sukhoi PAK-FA / FGFA: Updates,News & Discussions

[lepziboy]

^^I hope they do some structural changes to T-50-4

 

[Roybot]

New TVC design? Could this be for PAk FA? Any Russian speakers here

Watch from 7:44

 

[sudhir007]

Russia to Increase Number of 5G Fighters in Test Flights | idrw.org

The number of Russia’s Sukhoi T-50 5th generation fighters involved in test flights will be increased to 14 from three by 2015, Russian Air Force Commander Col. Gen. Alexander Zelin told RIA Novosti on Monday.

“There are three fighters already in tests, another three are expected to be tested in the nearest future. The entire number of aircraft planned for test flights is 14,” Zelin said.

The T-50, developed under the program PAK FA (Future Aviation System for Tactical Air Force) at the Sukhoi aircraft design bureau, made its first public appearance at the MAKS-2011 air show near Moscow on August 17, 2011.

The fighter, which is being developed in partnership with India, made its maiden flight in the Russian Far East in early 2010.

Zelin also said that Russia’s T-50 outstripped its U.S. and Chinese analogues.

“After a comparative analysis of the fighter’s characteristics with the U.S. F-22 Raptor and Chinese J-20 stealth aircraft, we can conclude that PAK FA exceeds the foreign analogues in maximum speed, flight range, maximum takeoff weight and the maximum overload value,” Zelin added.

Russia has been developing its fifth-generation fighter since the 1990s. The country’s top military officials have said the stealth fighter jet, with a range of up to 5,500 kilomeeters, should enter service with the Air Force in 2015.

 

[Jason bourne]

 

[lepziboy]

Russia to Increase Number of 5G Fighters in Test Flights | idrw.org

The number of Russia’s Sukhoi T-50 5th generation fighters involved in test flights will be increased to 14 from three by 2015, Russian Air Force Commander Col. Gen. Alexander Zelin told RIA Novosti on Monday.

“There are three fighters already in tests, another three are expected to be tested in the nearest future. The entire number of aircraft planned for test flights is 14,” Zelin said.

The T-50, developed under the program PAK FA (Future Aviation System for Tactical Air Force) at the Sukhoi aircraft design bureau, made its first public appearance at the MAKS-2011 air show near Moscow on August 17, 2011.

The fighter, which is being developed in partnership with India, made its maiden flight in the Russian Far East in early 2010.

Zelin also said that Russia’s T-50 outstripped its U.S. and Chinese analogues.

“After a comparative analysis of the fighter’s characteristics with the U.S. F-22 Raptor and Chinese J-20 stealth aircraft, we can conclude that PAK FA exceeds the foreign analogues in maximum speed, flight range, maximum takeoff weight and the maximum overload value,” Zelin added.

Russia has been developing its fifth-generation fighter since the 1990s. The country’s top military officials have said the stealth fighter jet, with a range of up to 5,500 kilomeeters, should enter service with the Air Force in 2015.

so does that mean that the structural changes would be made to the later models not to the fourth prototype?

 

[sudhir007]

Russia Must Build Two Variants of 5G Fighter - Rogozin | Defense | RIA Novosti

Russian aircraft manufacturers must develop at least two competitive prototypes of a fifth-generation fighter jet, Deputy Prime Minister Dmitry Rogozin said on Thursday.

“Two variants of the future fighter jet must be developed to encourage competition,” Rogozin said at a meeting with Russian lawmakers.

According to the Russian Defense Ministry, the future fighter must possess all technical characteristics of a fifth-generation fighter, including elements of stealth technology, supersonic cruising speed, highly-integrated avionics, electronics and fire-control systems.

The existing T-50 prototype, developed under the program PAK FA (Future Aviation System for Tactical Air Force) at the Sukhoi aircraft design bureau, made its maiden flight in Russia’s Far East in January 2010 and made its first public appearance at the MAKS-2011 air show near Moscow on August 17, 2011.

There are currently three fifth-generation T-50 fighters in tests, and a total number of 14 aircraft is planned for test flights by 2015.

The T-50 is expected to enter service in 2016 and gradually replace MiG-29 Fulcrum and Su-27 Flanker fighter jets in the Russian Air Force.

 

[sudhir007]

4th T-50 fighter jet to go on test flight: Voice of Russia

The fourth of Russia's state-of-the-art fifth-generation Sukhoi T-50 fighter jets will make its test flight this year, Head of Russia’s United Aircraft Corporation (UAC) Mikhail Pogosyan announced on Wednesday.

The third PAK FA T-50 jet has already performed over 120 test flights.

Deliveries of the initial batch of T-50 aircrafts will kick off in 2013. “Everything is going according to plan,” Mr. Pogosyan assured the press-conference.

A number of Latin American counties, as well as Indonesia, Vietnam and India have been interested in purchasing UAC’s planes, he said. In 2011, the Russian aircraft giant is planning to sell around 50-100 Sukhoi Superjets.

 

[DrSomnath999]

3D pics of PAKFA

&
YIPEEE PICS of pakfa

 

[Black Widow]

^^I hope they do some structural changes to T-50-4

Why do you hope so??? Let russian do what they are good at..

 

[Birbal]

New TVC design? Could this be for PAk FA? Any Russian speakers here

Watch from 7:44

They had tested that TVC as part of their technology preparations for the PAK FA. However, they probably decided that 3D thrust vectoring was more important with stealthy nozzles.

 

[Martian2]

Russian Embassy in India official website states 0.5m2 RCS for T-50/Pak-Fa

India, Russia close to pact on next generation fighter

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T-50/Pak-Fa (0.5 m2 RCS) is not as stealthy as F-22 or J-20

'Indo-Russian fighter jet better than Chinese, US aircraft' - The Economic Times
Commander of the Russian Air Force Colonel General Alexander Zelin told Russian news agency RIA Novosti that his country's government has decided to give top priority to the development of the joint venture aircraft.

"While comparing Russia's T-50 PAK FA with the US F-22 Raptor and China's Chengdu J-20 Black Eagle, one concludes that the T-50 is superior to its foreign analogues in terms of its maximum speed in afterburner and standard modes, maximum range and thrust-to-weight ratio," he said.

The Russian Air Force Colonel specifically avoided claiming the T-50/Pak-Fa is as stealthy as the F-22 Raptor or J-20 Mighty Dragon.

World stealth fighter rankings

#1 F-22 Raptor - RCS is 0.0001 m2 (from GlobalSecurity citation)

#2 J-20 Mighty Dragon - RCS is intermediate between F-22 and F-35 (Frontal and side-aspect RCS are 0.0001 m2 like F-22. Rear-aspect RCS with round LOAN engine nozzles is 0.005 m2 like F-35. See Australia Air Power citation below.)

#3 F-35 Joint Strike Fighter - RCS is 0.005 m2 (from GlobalSecurity citation)

#4 T-50/Pak-Fa - RCS is 0.5 m2 (from Russian Embassy in India official website citation)

References:

GlobalSecurity: Radar Cross Section (RCS)

Russian Embassy in India official website: India, Russia close to pact on next generation fighter

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Australia Air Power: J-20 is a "genuine Very Low Observable design"

Engineers and Scientists who work in ‘stealth’ (AKA ‘Low Observable&#8217 designs have a way for explaining it to lay people: ‘Stealth’ is achieved by Shaping, Shaping, Shaping and Materials (Denys Overholser).

The F-22A is clearly well shaped for low observability above about 500 MHz, and from all important aspects. The J-20 has observed the ‘Shaping, Shaping, Shaping’ imperative, except for the axisymmetric nozzles, and some curvature of the sides that smears a strong, but very narrow specular return into something of a more observable fan. The X-35 mostly observed the ‘Shaping, Shaping, Shaping’ rule, but since then, to quote a colleague, ‘hideous lumps, bumps, humps and warts’ have appeared on the JSF to disrupt the shaping imperative, forcing excessive reliance on materials, which are at the rear-end of the path to ‘Low Observability’.

While discussing ‘rear-ends’, both the F-35 and the J-20 have large signature contributions from their jet nozzles. However, the difference is much like the proverbial ‘Ham Omelette’: the F-35 Pig is committed, but the J-20 Chicken is a participant. If the Chinese decide that rear sector Low Observability is tactically and strategically important, they are at the design stage where they can copy the F-22A nozzle design for the production configuration of the J-20."


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Why hasn't Russia fixed the T-50's problems in the last two years?

Sukhoi hasn't fixed a single stealth design problem in two years.

The list of T-50/Pak-Fa design problems is well known. The more interesting question is why hasn't Sukhoi fixed a single problem in two years. I believe Russia has reached its technological limits.

1. Protruding IRST - To recess the IRST, it would displace space in the nose section of the plane. This would affect the size of the radar that can be installed. Apparently, there isn't enough space for both a recessed IRST and the planned radar.

2. Metal-framed canopy - Only two countries, the United States and China, have built a frameless bubble canopy. This is a high-tech item that must withstand sustained supersonic speeds or a bird strike. Russia apparently lacks the technology to build a frameless bubble canopy.

In addition to stealth, a frameless bubble canopy provides an unobstructed view of the airspace.

3. Tall fuselage behind pilot - If you make a detailed comparison between the T-50 and the Su-30, you will find many similarities. The T-50 appears to be an evolutionary design of the Su-30 and not a completely new design.

The tall fuselage area behind the pilot appears to house satellite communication equipment and cannot be reduced readily.

4. Engine fan blades in straight airduct - To build a stealthy S-duct, the T-50 would have to be completely redesigned. Sukhoi chose the practical option of installing a linear engine pod, because a S-duct would crimp the payload area.

Also, it is very difficult for maintenance to access a S-duct integrated into the fusleage of the fighter. To design a F-22 or J-20, it would require countless hours of CAD design to ensure that every part was accessible to maintenance personnel.

Sukhoi was willing to sacrifice stealth for ease of maintenance.

5. Vents reflect radar - In the design of the T-50 and Su-30, the vents are important to shape the airflow and probably to achieve the proper pressure in the engines. Sukhoi cannot simply remove the vents to improve the stealthiness of the T-50.

6. Metal engine pods reflect radar - Engines are hot and they need to be properly cooled. Sukhoi cannot simply encase the metal engine pods in RAM. Once the engine pods are encased in insulating RAM, Sukhoi must resolve the cooling requirement by building a plumbing network to redistribute the heat.

This would add weight, complexity, and cost to the T-50. Sukhoi may have decided the costs outweighed the benefits of stealth.

The primary purpose of the T-50 is not to win battles against the F-22 or J-20. Russia relies on its thermonuclear arsenal to ensure its safety. In other words, the effectiveness of the T-50 against the F-22 or J-20 is not an issue for Russia.

For foreign purchasers of the T-50, the exposed metal engine pods are a death knell for their airforce. The RCS for exposed metal engine pods is huge. The T-50's exposed metal engine pods are no different from a fourth-generation non-stealthy Su-30 and they can be detected at tremendous distances.

7. Gaps between airducts and fuselage - The gaps between the airducts and fuselage cannot be eliminated, because there are vents along the side of the airducts that provide a vital aerodynamic function.

Also, you can't just move the airducts and engine pods against the fuselage. There are aerodynamic airflow considerations, heat issue, and maintenance access problems. The airducts and engine pods on both the Su-30 and T-50 were intentionally placed at their exact locations.

If you move the airduct and engine pod, the center of mass of the wing changes and it affects the stability of the plane.

8. Uneven heights of underside - To achieve a smoother and stealthier underside, there are only two choices. Either reduce the size of the airducts and engine pods or expand the fuselage and extend it downwards.

The airduct size can't be changed, because the engines require a flow of a minimum cubic feet of air per second. The engine pods can't be reduced, because the combustion chamber needs a minimum size to achieve a desired thrust.

The other choice is to extend the fuselage downwards. This is not a simple proposition. This affects the rigidity of the entire fuselage. The fuselage ribs will be much larger (i.e. heavier) and it may compromise airworthiness. Preserving the same width, longer fuselage ribs are weaker and cracks may develop earlier.

Also, an extended fuselage will block the internal side vents. This is a constant theme. If Sukhoi tries to improve the stealth characteristic of the current T-50, it tends to conflict with an existing aerodynamic need.

9. Lack of stealthy saw-toothed edges on bay doors - If you look closely at pictures of a J-20 with its saw-toothed bay doors closed, it is impossible to see the outline of the saw-toothed edges. This is a credit to China's machine tool industry. The precision of the machining can achieve very fine tolerances.

On the other hand, pictures of the closed straight-edged bay doors on the T-50 show the clear outlines of the doors. Without machining to fine tolerances, Sukhoi has probably concluded the closed bay doors aren't stealthy anyway. There is no point in introducing non-stealthy saw-toothed bay doors.

Russia lacks an advanced machine tool industry and stealthy saw-toothed doors are beyond her current technological capability.

10. Round engine-pod shape reflects radar - I've already covered this issue in item #6. Sukhoi cannot just encase the hot engine pods in RAM material.

11. Lack of gold-colored transparent RAM for cockpit canopy - There are pictures of F-22 and J-20 with gold-colored transparent RAM on their frameless cockpit canopies. To date, I have never seen a T-50 picture with similar transparent RAM.

Russian material science technology appears to have reached its limit. Russia may be capable of manufacturing opaque RAM for the plane in general. However, in two years, Sukhoi has not been able to produce transparent gold-colored RAM.

On the other hand, Sukhoi may have decided gold-colored transparent RAM is pointless. Since the metal-framed cockpit canopy is already reflecting radar, there is no point in applying transparent RAM to the T-50 cockpit canopy.

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In conclusion, Sukhoi hasn't tried to fix all of the well-known problems with the T-50/Pak-Fa because the alteration of part of the plane affects the performance of other parts of the plane. In other words, Sukhoi is trapped.

Sukhoi can't make the T-50/Pak-Fa more stealthy, because the Su-30 airframe was never meant to be used as a stealth platform. To build a F-22 or J-20 class stealth fighter, Sukhoi needs to start with a clean sheet. However, the development of a world-class stealth fighter can take a decade or more.

Russia doesn't have the luxury of starting with a new design and it needs a "stealth" fighter for export now. Hence, the result is a severely-compromised T-50/Pak-Fa. The T-50 is an evolutionary improvement on the basic Su-30 airframe by having a stealthy shaped nose, internal weapon bays, planform alignment, canted forward airduct, and canted vertical stabilizers.

If you are counting, you will notice the T-50/Pak-Fa lacks 12 stealth design elements (when you include non-serrated round engine nozzles) and only has five stealth design features.

The T-50/Pak-Fa is clearly not competitive with the F-22 or J-20. Sukhoi has a long way to go. It will be interesting to see if Sukhoi is able to improve on the currently deficient third T-50/Pak-Fa prototype.

 

[ptldM3]

Get your rediculous facticious fanboys crap out of here, and while you are at it take the J-20 mighty drag queen with you.

Anyone thinking you need a gold canopy to be stealth is a real peice of work F-35 and SU-35 canopies come to mind?

 

[Bl[i]tZ]

All Foreign ministries/embassies host media articles to further their diplomacy (that article is by Ajai Shukla). They don't necessarily stand by every word (just like RT not equal to endorsement goes on most twitterati's profile, which means that they found it interesting and nothing else).

Chini propaganda about the rest of PAK FA design is baseless though I'm impressed by the skills of chini engineers who managed to fly a piano shaped object.

The last two fighter designs of J series speak for themselves

J-10 is a close copy of the Israeli Lavi jet and J-11 is a reverse-engineered copy of Sukhoi Su-27SK,

Now you want the the world believe J-20 is a 5th gen fighter. :

 

[sancho]

Russian Embassy in India official website states 0.5m2 RCS for T-50/Pak-Fa

Haven't we missed the important part?

Compiled from the article of Ajai Shukla, Business Standart, January, 2010

 

[DARKY]

Haven't we missed the important part?

This Kid has got some serious Mental issues needs some quick treatment... in one of the thread he was posting about Bombing India with Hydrogen bombs and air dropping Chinese paratroopers there.... to be cooked aswell....