Sukhoi PAK-FA / FGFA: Updates,News & Discussions

[rockstarIN]

Astra MKII have good chance to get into FGFA which in range wise should equal to Meteor since it will be using Ramjet.

 

[DARKY]

When will Russia begin with the weapons test with T-50? Wold be interesting to see the weapons they are using for PAK-FA.

No. 54 would be used to test weapons-

 

[trident2010]

No. 54 would be used to test weapons-

Any time frame from which this begins?

 

[sancho]

Astra MKII have good chance to get into FGFA which in range wise should equal to Meteor since it will be using Ramjet.

We should get MK1 ready and mature first and design it with folding wings to integrate it into the weapon bays, before thinking about an MK2. Besides that the Ramjet is not the key for range, but for speed and a larger no escape zone, but as I explained earlier, this is only important for non stealth fighters!

A stealth fighter can close in to a nost stealth fighter below 100Km without beeing detected, but the minute it opens the weaponbay and launches a missile, it can be detected by radar or EW sensors. So why should you expose yourself at long range, only because your missile has a range of 100Km+, when you can savely get closer and give the opponent less reaction time?
That's why I said, that for a stealth fighter MICA might be the better missile than METEOR, although for Rafale it would be the other way around.

 

[gambit]

We should get MK1 ready and mature first and design it with folding wings to integrate it into the weapon bays, before thinking about an MK2. Besides that the Ramjet is not the key for range, but for speed and a larger no escape zone, but as I explained earlier, this is only important for non stealth fighters!

A stealth fighter can close in to a nost stealth fighter below 100Km without beeing detected, but the minute it opens the weaponbay and launches a missile, it can be detected by radar or EW sensors. So why should you expose yourself at long range, only because your missile has a range of 100Km+, when you can savely get closer and give the opponent less reaction time?
That's why I said, that for a stealth fighter MICA might be the better missile than METEOR, although for Rafale it would be the other way around.

Only radar and only if the seeking radar is looking at the 'stealth' fighter. If the 'stealth' fighter is in a tail chase situation, he can fly with external stores and his adversary would not know about him.

 

[Agnostic_Indian]

We should get MK1 ready and mature first and design it with folding wings to integrate it into the weapon bays, before thinking about an MK2. Besides that the Ramjet is not the key for range, but for speed and a larger no escape zone, but as I explained earlier, this is only important for non stealth fighters!

A stealth fighter can close in to a nost stealth fighter below 100Km without beeing detected, but the minute it opens the weaponbay and launches a missile, it can be detected by radar or EW sensors. So why should you expose yourself at long range, only because your missile has a range of 100Km+, when you can savely get closer and give the opponent less reaction time?
That's why I said, that for a stealth fighter MICA might be the better missile than METEOR, although for Rafale it would be the other way around.

if both fighters approach head on, then 4th gen fighter can use it's IRST, FSO etc to detect the stealth fighter right ?
if it's tail chase what advantage has a stealth fighter compared to non stealth fighter ? (talking about 4gen fighter which has no rear looking radar ).

add a awac to the picture and sneaking in becomes even difficult in every scenario.

even for ramjet version of bvr missiles nez will be 80km -100km head on right ?at that ranges both party will be alerted that enemy is out there ? dis advantage for 4 gen fighter is that it may not have a firing solution at that ranges because it's radar can't detect/track stealth fighter and passive solutions will not be able to get firing solution at that ranges and is extremely unreliable. what you say ?

 

[The A-5]

Only radar and only if the seeking radar is looking at the 'stealth' fighter. If the 'stealth' fighter is in a tail chase situation, he can fly with external stores and his adversary would not know about him.

But jets whose radars have rear hemispheric coverage can detect jets at the hind, can't they? At least
at 50km range. EO-DAS or the EO-DASski on PAKFA can detect heat signatures at rear as well.

 

[rockstarIN]

We should get MK1 ready and mature first and design it with folding wings to integrate it into the weapon bays, before thinking about an MK2. Besides that the Ramjet is not the key for range, but for speed and a larger no escape zone, but as I explained earlier, this is only important for non stealth fighters!

A stealth fighter can close in to a nost stealth fighter below 100Km without beeing detected, but the minute it opens the weaponbay and launches a missile, it can be detected by radar or EW sensors. So why should you expose yourself at long range, only because your missile has a range of 100Km+, when you can savely get closer and give the opponent less reaction time?
That's why I said, that for a stealth fighter MICA might be the better missile than METEOR, although for Rafale it would be the other way around.

1)Do you think No Escape zone and range of the missile (read ramjet propelled) has no relation?
2) EW sensors specially heat seeking sensors have range more than 60-80 km(Flanker series for e.g), so going close to 4.5 gen fighters around 50-60 km won't be put stealth fighter in a vulnerable position?
3) The enemy air craft(4.5 gen) did not understand the stealth fighter's presence when the stealth fighter try use its radar to track and try to get a radar lock for a BVR missile launch?

 

[gambit]

But jets whose radars have rear hemispheric coverage can detect jets at the hind, can't they? At least
at 50km range.

If and even then, it is dubious because weapons bay doors do not stay open for long. Further, when popular media articles make the claim that an opened weapons bay door will reveal the 'stealth' aircraft, they do not mention the fact that the best such view is when the radar is looking STRAIGHT at the opened bay, but the reality is that a weapons bay on the other side of the aircraft is the one that opens.

EO-DAS or the EO-DASski on PAKFA can detect heat signatures at rear as well.

Weapons bay door opening do not create IR emissions.

 

[DARKY]

Any time frame from which this begins?

It would start soon and this year... once the aircraft completes initial testing and sensor testing etc.

 

[trident2010]

It would start soon and this year... once the aircraft completes initial testing and sensor testing etc.

That would be interesting too see.

 

[sancho]

Only radar and only if the seeking radar is looking at the 'stealth' fighter. If the 'stealth' fighter is in a tail chase situation, he can fly with external stores and his adversary would not know about him.

Of course, but within enemy airspace the enemy don't have only fighter radars an not only a single fighter. Even if you are behind the fighter, opening the weapon bays makes you detectable for any ground radar or AWACS. So closing in, reducing the time to launch a weapon is preferable for a stealth fighter, than using long range weapons.
Also EW sensors like MAWS at modern fighters will detect the launch in the rear section as well, which again makes a later launch preferable, to reduce the reaction time for the target.

if both fighters approach head on, then 4th gen fighter can use it's IRST, FSO etc to detect the stealth fighter right ?
if it's tail chase what advantage has a stealth fighter compared to non stealth fighter ? (talking about 4gen fighter which has no rear looking radar ).

As said above, modern fighters offers EW sensors like RWR, MAWS and ESM that can detect EM signals of the fighter itself or the missile launch itself. Most modern systems even offer 360° detection, to cover all areas, the stealth fighter still of course is in advantage.

even for ramjet version of bvr missiles nez will be 80km -100km head on right ?at that ranges both party will be alerted that enemy is out there ?

That's the point and be it stealth fighters, or SSBNs, the aim is always to stay undetected as long as possible and to close in without beeing detected, to launch it's weapons with low response time for the enemy.

1)Do you think No Escape zone and range of the missile (read ramjet propelled) has no relation?

Not necessarily, because you can have missiles like AIM 120D and latest R77 missiles with 100+ Km range, which is basically possible by the ammount of fuel they carry and not by the propulsion. The Ramjet propulsion instead mainly benefits the missile to remain high speed for the full range and don't get slower like the earlier missiles in the terminal stages.

Rest see above.

 

[ptldM3]

http://www.ausairpower.net/Rus-VLO/...377-IncPol-TM-Pol-Theta-[E=135.0-A=225.0].png

http://www.ausairpower.net/PLA-VLO/...ing-IncPol-TM-Pol-Theta-[E=135.0-A=225.0].png


Some interesting physical optics simulations conducted by Carlo Kopp. What is interesting is that this is a comparison of the J-20 and pak-fa; it has been speculated or proclaimed that the pak-fa is 'not stealthy' especially from underneath by most Chinese.

Both models were tested under the exact same conditions. 1.2 GHz, Elev 135 Azm 225; consequently, the pak-fa is far better in this frequency/angle. Other comparisons under different frequencies/angles shows that sometimes the j-20 is better, sometimes the pak-fa is better, other times they are too close to distinguish either.

Most J-20 fanboys mocked the pak-fa going as far as going to different forums and starting threads as to how it is junk. Martian is going to be suicidal especially since Kopp has been the authority on the subject in his eyes

 

[Dash]

With 5th gen planes employing a particular weapons bay configuration, I think it would be harder to use foreign weapons unless the bay configuration allows that. May be a universal weapons bay is the answer if India is considering using French weapons. Russians would not want that.

PAKFA can fly with external load, and there will be a time when it will...

 

[rockstarIN]

Only radar and only if the seeking radar is looking at the 'stealth' fighter. If the 'stealth' fighter is in a tail chase situation, he can fly with external stores and his adversary would not know about him.

When a stealth fighter closes in and try to get a radar lock on the 4ht gen fighter, didn't the 4th gen fighter will get alerted while it is being tracked?