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Sukhoi PAK-FA / FGFA: Updates,News & Discussions

Its funny to see even the MODs trolling on PDF n posting one liners....

Whats there in my post that u didn't understand???:what:

We r contributing roughly $6 billion in R&D for PAKFA that will ensure we get everything what the Russian got(no waterdown version) with full TOT plus we'll incorporate the best from Israel, France n India to make it FGFA...

N ofcourse all the third countries will get the water down versions like every other deal even Chinese weapons in Pak forces...:wave:


I am just amazed at how you "hope" that Russians will actually sell A grade FGFA to India and even more amazed at your "hopes" that you can simply make up a shopping list, go out buy 5th generation avionics [US has a monopoly - No other EU country makes them right now -], come back integrate them in FGFA and then call it "Indian" and then how you "hope" that the FGFA will be more advanced than PAK-FA. So dream on...
 
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I am just amazed at how you "hope" that Russians will actually sell A grade FGFA to India and even more amazed at your "hopes" that you can simply make up a shopping list, go out buy 5th generation avionics [US has a monopoly - No other EU country makes them right now -], come back integrate them in FGFA and then call it "Indian" and then how you "hope" that the FGFA will be more advanced than PAK-FA. So dream on...

Had that been the case we wouldn't have invested $6 billion in R&D for PAKFA, we would have directly bought it off the shelf like in the case of SUs, Migs or the Rafale...:azn:

Do u think Indians r stupid enough to invest half the cost R&D of a fifth gen fighter to get a water down version with no tot then what can i say looks like u guys have a habit of living in la la land.....:crazy:
 
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Had that been the case we wouldn't have invested $6 billion in R&D for PAKFA, we would have directly bought it off the shelf like in the case of SUs, Migs or the Rafale...:azn:

Do u think Indians r stupid enough to invest half the cost R&D of a fifth gen fighter to get a water down version with no tot then what can i say looks like u guys have a habit of living in la la land.....:crazy:

Which part of this post is worth replying to ?
 
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I am just amazed at how you "hope" that Russians will actually sell A grade FGFA to India and even more amazed at your "hopes" that you can simply make up a shopping list, go out buy 5th generation avionics [US has a monopoly - No other EU country makes them right now -], come back integrate them in FGFA and then call it "Indian" and then how you "hope" that the FGFA will be more advanced than PAK-FA. So dream on...

Not exactly, if that was the case then the Israelis never would have demanded a stripped down basic version of F-35s with an option to plug in their own avionics, isn't?
 
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if u had some facts to back ur claim then u would have done that long back n u wouldn't have to ask this question...:coffee:

PAK-FA is a Russian machine, the fact that you gave them some cash for R&D doesn't mean they will sell you a grade A PAK-FA. UAE Paid 3 Billion for the F-16E/F R&D, would it make the desert eagle a UAE Jet? No.

Russians will not sell A grade PAK-FA to anyone- it WILL be a downgraded version. As the F-35 USAF will be using is much more advanced and has lower RCS than the ones being sold to other nations.
 
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PAK-FA is a Russian machine, the fact that you gave them some cash for R&D doesn't mean they will sell you a grade A PAK-FA. UAE Paid 3 Billion for the F-16E/F R&D, would it make the desert eagle a UAE Jet? No.

Russians will not sell A grade PAK-FA to anyone- it WILL be a downgraded version. As the F-35 USAF will be using is much more advanced and has lower RCS than the ones being sold to other nations.

Analogy is completely wrong, if UAE gave some money for the development of F-16s doesn't make it a UAE jet at all, but the difference in PAK-FA project is that it is a Russian, Indian project whose R&D costs are shared nearly 50-50 by both countries, PAK-FA/FGFA is a joint Indo-Russian project, India is not claiming it as it's own project. Everything, & i repeat Everthing will be shared with India since India is the partner in the project. And yes, FGFA will be a better plane than PAK-FA since it will have Indian, French, Israeli, Russian systems on it, while PAK-FA will only have Russian systems, u should believe it since after making basic sukhoi-30 & with IAF further modifying it into sukhoi-30mkis, RuAF has currently gone for su-30 MKI's only, which was made for IAF, not MKK nor basic MK variants.
 
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PAK-FA is a Russian machine, the fact that you gave them some cash for R&D doesn't mean they will sell you a grade A PAK-FA. UAE Paid 3 Billion for the F-16E/F R&D, would it make the desert eagle a UAE Jet? No.

Russians will not sell A grade PAK-FA to anyone- it WILL be a downgraded version. As the F-35 USAF will be using is much more advanced and has lower RCS than the ones being sold to other nations.

Downgraded what???

Do you have a name of a single item among the 1000s of parts in an aircraft that will be downgraded.

I am all ears for that piece of information.
 
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PAK-FA is a Russian machine, the fact that you gave them some cash for R&D doesn't mean they will sell you a grade A PAK-FA. UAE Paid 3 Billion for the F-16E/F R&D, would it make the desert eagle a UAE Jet? No.

Russians will not sell A grade PAK-FA to anyone- it WILL be a downgraded version. As the F-35 USAF will be using is much more advanced and has lower RCS than the ones being sold to other nations.

There is lot of difference between the way the Americans deal n the way the Russians deal...
America isn't ready to share its tech with even its closest alleys Japan has been cribbing for f22 for ages but US ain't ready to sell off the shelf f22s let alone tech transfer in fact they aren't even ready to share small weapon tech like as in case pf Javlin sale to India, on the top of that even if they sell anything they keep a constant watch to avoid any leakage

whereas Russians have a history of sharing some of the most forbidden techs in defense industry with India like Nuke Subs, Cryogenic Engine, etc. etc.

the Arabs(UAE) u r talking about r the worst buyers as far as tech transfer in concerned u just can't compare their dealing with the US to that of India n Russia

Besides the Americans aren't dependent on Arab Petro dollars for their R&D although they do earn hefty some from selling their weapons to them but thats not the case with Russians they aren't as cash rich as the Americans to fund their projects

Have u ever seen the Americans dealing with the Chinese after their tech was stolen but u still see Russians dealing with them but i know no matter how hard i try to explain to u, u r just to adamant to make a genuine reasoning so lets agree to disagree....
 
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PAK-FA is a Russian machine, the fact that you gave them some cash for R&D doesn't mean they will sell you a grade A PAK-FA. UAE Paid 3 Billion for the F-16E/F R&D, would it make the desert eagle a UAE Jet? No.

Russians will not sell A grade PAK-FA to anyone- it WILL be a downgraded version. As the F-35 USAF will be using is much more advanced and has lower RCS than the ones being sold to other nations.


you have to understand one thing first. we are the development partner not a production partner for FGFA. and second thing we are not getting from US we are getting from russia. i hope there is no need for further expalnation.
 
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FGFA – Quantum leap for Indian aerospace

September 18, 2012
Rakesh Krishnan Simha

The signing of the Sukhoi T-50 fifth generation fighter aircraft contract propels India to joint developer of the world’s most advanced stealth aircraft.




Russian fifth-generation fighter jet - Sukhoi T-50. Source: ITAR-TASS




Two significant developments have stirred up the world of military aviation this year. In March, the U.S. Air Force revealed it had started work to field a new Long Range Strike Bomber by the 2020s. This will be first new American strategic bomber to be built after the Cold War.



How much the global balance of power has shifted since the Cold War days was clear when it was revealed that the aircraft the American bomber might encounter in the skies will have a large Indian signature – in more ways than one. In August, the Indian Air Force announced that India and Russia are getting set to ink the final R&D contract for the Sukhoi T-50 fifth generation fighter aircraft (FGFA) by the end of the year or early-2013. The contract is worth more than US$ 11 billion, and according to the terms of the agreement both countries will share 50 percent of the costs.




View the infographic: Russian fifth-generation fighter jet

That the FGFA would fly was never in doubt. (To meet its air defence requirements, Russia was committed to the T-50 but as the American F-35 programme has demonstrated, having partners translates into assured orders.) The only uncertain component of the programme was the extent of Indian participation. In the past couple of years there was a lot of speculation – and derisive comments – about India’s involvement. Sceptics felt it was limited to merely offering suggestions as to what the IAF wanted – such as two seats or one – while the more charitable ones believed India’s contributions would be in avionics and software.



The IAF chief’s visit to Moscow last month finally lifted the veil of secrecy about India’s participation in the world’s most eagerly awaited fighter aircraft. It is now clear that Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd’s Ozar facility at Nashik in western India will get three prototypes in 2014, 2017 and 2019, and they will be flown by Indian test pilots.



India moves into the big league




Related:




FGFA: facing delay but worth waiting




Fifth generation fighters provide air superiority

What defence observers have missed is that the FGFA is a quantum leap for India’s armaments industry, especially HAL. After decades of dabbling in joint production – a euphemism for screwdriver technology – India’s aerospace sector will finally step up to joint development.



This will catapult India to a new level where it will finally be able to develop advanced stealth aircraft on its own. Not even America’s leading partners in the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter programme, such as Turkey or the UK, have access to such red hot technology. Instead of being a sidekick, India will be a joint partner in a leading military project.



Russia has already given the draft R&D contract to HAL. It will include the cost of designing, infrastructure build-up at Ozar, prototype development and flight testing. India will soon have scientists and test pilots based both in Russia and Ozar during the R&D phase up to 2019.



An IAF official told Jane’s that the jointly developed aircraft “draws upon the basic structural and system design of the Russian FGFA technology demonstrator with modifications to meet the IAF specifications, which are much more stringent”.



The IAF is hopeful production fighters will roll out of the factory gates by 2022. Up to 250 of these aircraft will be inducted at an estimated cost of $35 billion. Russia will buy a similar number. While it is never easy to place a price tag on such a constantly evolving platform, the IAF estimates the cost per plane at $100 million. The total cost, including options and the value of production aircraft, will make this the biggest defence programme ever in India’s history.



Potent threat



Although the T-50’s specifications remain classified, reports indicate it features advanced stealth capability and supersonic cruising speed. Here is what Air Power Australia says: “The stealthy T-50, albeit in an early phase of development, is showing naked air combat power in the form of extreme plus agility and persistence that, with the addition of advanced sensors, countermeasures and weapons, will likely soundly defeat the F-22 Raptor but will certainly annihilate the F-35 and the Super Hornet.”



This is an explosive statement but coming from ace aircraft experts, the FGFA portends a scary decade ahead for Western air defences and pilots.



Tuning the T-50



Clearly, the designers aren’t sitting idle. A series of developments suggests the FGFA has achieved irresistible propulsion. According to the website of Russia’s United Aircraft Group, which owns the Sukhoi bureau, the company has tested three T-50 prototypes in various modes, totalling around 180 sorties, including aerial refuelling hook-ups with a Russian Air Force Il-78 tanker, AESA radar scans, and large angle of attack and super manoeuvrability test flights.



Carlo Kopp of Air Power Australia and legendary aircraft analyst Bill Sweetman wonder whether the current T-50 represents the definitive configuration. “Today's round nozzles and the curvature of the aft nacelles are not at first glance stealth-optimised, and the engine is not fully masked head-on by the inlet duct,” they write in an article in Aviation Week.



To be sure, those are exactly the areas India and Russia will be working on in the months and years ahead. The IAF, for instance, has specified more than 40 improvements to the design following its observation of flying trials.



For instance, in the early stages of the programme, the IAF was keen on a two-seater fighter bomber, and in fact indicated a requirement for at least 166 single-seat and 48 twin-seat aircraft. But since then it has jettisoned that demand will go in for only single-seat jets now. The reason is that a second cockpit will compromise the stealth capabilities by at least 15 percent, apart from adding to the weight and reducing fuel capacity.



Exploring exports



Unlike the dollar-guzzling F-35 which perhaps wouldn’t fly without exports, the T-50 remains viable because of lower development costs and large pre-orders from Russia and India. Still exports can’t hurt. According to the IAF, the broad scope of bilateral cooperation during the joint project covers the design and development of the aircraft, its production and joint marketing to other countries.



The Centre for the Analysis of Strategies and Technologies (CAST), a Moscow-based independent defence and foreign policy think-tank, says that while India will be the first FGFA export customer, Vietnam will be probably its second buyer. CAST Director Ruslan Pukhov believes every third user of the Su-27/30 family of aircraft could be a customer for the FGFA.



Russia’s legacy



For both Russia and India the FGFA programme will be a bold new gambit, as it will overshadow even the highly successful BrahMos missile project. For, while BrahMos is also a 50:50 India-Russia venture, it is basically India’s baby; Russia has turned down an offer to buy the missile as it has the equally capable Club.



However, the FGFA programme could be a template for further defence cooperation between India and Russia. As its economy grows, India is increasingly seeking quality armaments for its armed forces and is keen to wean itself away from imports. Russia on the other hand has the knowhow and experience to produce highly capable weapons platforms. Together, they can ensure that legacy remains intact.
 
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The Centre for the Analysis of Strategies and Technologies (CAST), a Moscow-based independent defence and foreign policy think-tank, says that while India will be the first FGFA export customer
I really hate this line if we are the partner then how can we are export customer
 
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you have to accept the truth. because fgfa is a derivative of pak fa

No quite since we paid for the R&D we are partners. The FGFA will be basically the same thing except some equipment that might come from France and Israel.
 
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