Sukhoi PAK-FA / FGFA: Updates,News & Discussions

[sancho]

What's point in making another single seater from existing single seater ??? the electronics and controls can be modified according to IAFs needs in PakFa itself. Why create FGFA for single seat ???

Who said we creat another single seater?

 

[Sergi]

Who said we creat another single seater?

Sorry I might be ill informed. Please correct me if I am wrong.
All I know is India is going for Single seater PAK-FA which WE are calling single seater FGFA. India will make twin seater with the help of Russia using PAK-FA as a platform.
Last I know was IAF wants 40-60 single seaters and 120-160 twin seaters.
And you said IAF won't get both Pak-FA and FGFA. So a little bit confused.

 

[sancho]

Sorry I might be ill informed. Please correct me if I am wrong.
All I know is India is going for Single seater PAK-FA which WE are calling single seater FGFA. India will make twin seater with the help of Russia using PAK-FA as a platform.
Last I know was IAF wants 40-60 single seaters and 120-160 twin seaters.
And you said IAF won't get both Pak-FA and FGFA. So a little bit confused.

It's a general confusion, not only yours and it will remain since we get a final confirmation about it. That's actually based on a single report that stated Air Chief Brown would have said something about xxx single and xxx twin seaters. No confirmation about that came from IAF, all official statements said, India goes for the FGFA which always was planned as a twin seater only!

 

[Sergi]

It's a general confusion, not only yours and it will remain since we get a final confirmation about it. That's actually based on a single report that stated Air Chief Brown would have said something about xxx single and xxx twin seaters. No confirmation about that came from IAF, all official statements said, India goes for the FGFA which always was planned as a twin seater only!

No conformation or denial from IAF ??? Air chief puts his own words
I think India will buy PAK-FA too. Hope so.

 

[sancho]

No conformation or denial from IAF ??? Air chief puts his own words
I think India will buy PAK-FA too. Hope so.

No, the media (actually one report, that the other just quoted) said that's what the air marshal said, but it wasn't part of an interview, or official press release or so. Last official statement came from former Airchief Naik last year in an NDTV Interview and he clearly stated 214 x FGFA!

 

[Arzamas 16]

That's why I said "current" missiles, because those are outdated now and with the financial problems Russia wasn't able to come up with new more capable missiles so far.




That's not correct! India has no contribution in Pak Fa, since we wanted a customised version developed according to our requirements, that's the FGFA! We paid to get the 50% of the licence and production rights of the general projects, since both versions shares most of the parts anyway, but our version will be FGFA and our contribution in design and techs will be on FGFA as well!
T50 and the early Pak Fa versions will be developed only for Russian requirements, which could be lower than ours, but therefor can be inducted earlier (estimated at 2015). While FGFA was always aimed at 2017 the earliers and according recent reports 2019 now.

We will have a say on marketing and sale, since we paid for half of the project, our practical contribution to the project might be between 20 and 30% only and most of that for our version.



Most likely they don't, first of all because the single seat doesn't fit to their operational requirements, secondly because it is developed under Russian requirements for techs and materials, thirdly because they don't have to buy Pak Fa in return as many believe, because both versions share many parts, so if IAF orders additional FGFAs Russia will benefit as well.

People need get one thing straight FGFA will not be more advanced than PAK FA.

 

[rockstarIN]

People need get one thing straight FGFA will not be more advanced than PAK FA.

There were official news from Russian Sources that IAF wants more than 42 changes in the PAK FA configuration. I believe it is for good only. The same SU-30 MKI way as Russia recently decided to add few Su-30s into its fleet mostly same as MKI.

No, the media (actually one report, that the other just quoted) said that's what the air marshal said, but it wasn't part of an interview, or official press release or so. Last official statement came from former Airchief Naik last year in an NDTV Interview and he clearly stated 214 x FGFA!

You mean to say the eralier report of early 50 PAK-FA and subsequent 200 FGFAs were wrong? Are we going only for FGFA?

 

[Sergi]

People need get one thing straight FGFA will not be more advanced than PAK FA.

Poor reading skills. Please read wht you highlight. It's about requirement and not Quality. You need to get that thing straight

Edit: oh you misunderstood the Bolded statement.... But look like what you understand is correct after reading few posts below
FGFA>Pak-FA

 

[sancho]

People need get one thing straight FGFA will not be more advanced than PAK FA.

From what we know so far it will, because India wants more advanced avionics, more advanced materials and even a more advanced engine. Russia Forces on the other side wants to use some of the Su 35BM base techs for the early Pak Fas, that's why they plan with an induction in 2015, although AESA, avionics, radar blockers, the NG engines and even most weapons (converted to be used in the internal weapon bays) are in early stages of development only.

You mean to say the eralier report of early 50 PAK-FA and subsequent 200 FGFAs were wrong? Are we going only for FGFA?

There was never an official IAF or MoD statement about Pak Fa, other than these "quotes" of Air Marshal Brown. I think it will be similar to the Su 30 deal, where we rejected the early Su 35 and had gone for a customised Su 30 MKI, similarly we might reject the early Pak Fa and go for FGFA again.

 

[sancho]

People need get one thing straight FGFA will not be more advanced than PAK FA.

From what we know so far it will, because India wants more advanced avionics, more advanced materials and even a more advanced engine. Russia Forces on the other side wants to use some of the Su 35BM base techs for the early Pak Fas, that's why they plan with an induction in 2015, although AESA, avionics, radar blockers, the NG engines and even most weapons (converted to be used in the internal weapon bays) are in early stages of development only.

You mean to say the eralier report of early 50 PAK-FA and subsequent 200 FGFAs were wrong? Are we going only for FGFA?

There was never an official IAF or MoD statement about Pak Fa, other than these "quotes" of Air Marshal Brown. I think it will be similar to the Su 30 deal, where we rejected the early Su 35 and had gone for a customised Su 30 MKI, similarly we might reject the early Pak Fa and go for FGFA again.

 

[DANGER-ZONE]

Poor reading dude

The agreement, which was signed at the seventh meeting of the Indo-Russian inter-governmental commission on military-technical



co-operation in Moscow, provides for joint development of the fifth-generation fighter aircraft (FGFA), the Sukhoi T-50 PAK-FA. The Sukhoi T-50 PAK-FA is known for its super-maneuverability, supersonic cruising ability, long-range strike and high-endurance air defense capabilities. It is described as a rival to the US F-35 Lighting-II Joint Strike Fighter.

The deal on joint production comes almost five years after the Russians first proposed it.

India and Russia will have equal financial and technological stakes in the US$10 billion project. "We will share the funding, engineering and intellectual property in a 50-50 proportion," Sukhoi director-general Mikhail Pogosyan said. The Indian version of the FGFA would be different from the Russian version because of specific Indian requirements, he said.

I think I was right in post #840
FGFA is Indian name for twin seater PAK-FA. BTW IAF is going to get both

I still read FGFA out of Pak-Fa, i guess i am bad in English.
Lets make it simple, Plz help this poor guy with a source that Claims PAK-FA is co developed by India & Russia or India has this % contribution in PAK-FA. If you back your claim from Sukhoi official website that might be worthy.

Thanks

 

[MehrotraPrince]

That's not correct! India has no contribution in Pak Fa, since we wanted a customised version developed according to our requirements, that's the FGFA! We paid to get the 50% of the licence and production rights of the general projects, since both versions shares most of the parts anyway, but our version will be FGFA and our contribution in design and techs will be on FGFA as well!
T50 and the early Pak Fa versions will be developed only for Russian requirements, which could be lower than ours, but therefor can be inducted earlier (estimated at 2015). While FGFA was always aimed at 2017 the earliers and according recent reports 2019 now.

We will have a say on marketing and sale, since we paid for half of the project, our practical contribution to the project might be between 20 and 30% only and most of that for our version.

You some times deliberately try to put words in others mouth. Where had I written that we have technical contribution in PAK-FA project apart from some composite materials? If funding and composite material is not considered as contribution then what is it?

and what do you mean by "T50 and the early Pak Fa versions will be developed only for Russian requirements, which could be lower than ours" this? are they inferior to us in designing aircraft or their requirement is inferior, their own requirement can be different from ours but not inferior.

Most likely they don't, first of all because the single seat doesn't fit to their operational requirements, secondly because it is developed under Russian requirements for techs and materials, thirdly because they don't have to buy Pak Fa in return as many believe, because both versions share many parts, so if IAF orders additional FGFAs Russia will benefit as well.

I think you wanted to say that single seat version doesn't fit our operational requirement,
Let me tell you one thing which you might know or not, you know why IAF chose two seat version of Su-30 series aircraft? because our requirement was more in terms of avionics, advanced sensors in short electronic equipments, it was increased to such level that it was difficult for single man to handle it and at that time processors were not advanced enough to process every thing on their own so two seat version was preferred + for long range missions two seat version is more effective. But we payed price for that in terms of increase in weight of aircraft, aerodynamic characteristics of aircraft reduced (canard and thrust vectoring engine was added to overcome them and increase maneuverability), operational range decreased and also maximum speed too as compared to basic version of Su-30.

But this will not be the case with PAK-FA, their processor will be powerful enough to process major data on their own thus minimizing the need for second person. We are developing FGFA version just for two reasons:
1. To gain technical experience.
2. For long range missions.

India will be inducting customized PAK-FA in more numbers than FGFA and I don't need to prove it, you will see it in future.

 

[Black Widow]

I still read FGFA out of Pak-Fa, i guess i am bad in English.
Lets make it simple, Plz help this poor guy with a source that Claims PAK-FA is co developed by India & Russia or India has this % contribution in PAK-FA. If you back your claim from Sukhoi official website that might be worthy.

Thanks

Let me put it simple, India has not skills to develop 5th gen fighter (in simpler word "humari Aukat nahi hai"). Our engineers are in Russia, they are not teaching russians how to make plane, rather they are learning it.

The most we can contribute in is "Avionics" and "composite tech" .

Will FGFA be better than PAK-FA??? Its very subjective question, FGFA will be tailor made base don Indian requirement. Off course it will be better than PAK-FA , but only for India. For russia it may not.

Who will make FGFA?? Most work will be done by russian, some work can be done by Indians. Now you decide who will make FGFA.

 

[DANGER-ZONE]

Let me put it simple, India has not skills to develop 5th gen fighter (in simpler word "humari Aukat nahi hai"). Our engineers are in Russia, they are not teaching russians how to make plane, rather they are learning it.

The most we can contribute in is "Avionics" and "composite tech" .

Will FGFA be better than PAK-FA??? Its very subjective question, FGFA will be tailor made base don Indian requirement. Off course it will be better than PAK-FA , but only for India. For russia it may not.

Who will make FGFA?? Most work will be done by russian, some work can be done by Indians. Now you decide who will make FGFA.

Bro I know about FGFA, it will be more like your tailored product similar to MKI, But the guy up there Sergi claimed that India contributed in PAK-FA. This Claim is like if Indian had Co-developed SU-30 instead of MKI.

I say PAK-FA is Sole Russian jet and FGFA would be Different version for India. If Russia want to cell PAK-FA to any other country (Excluding Pakistan, China etc.) it may not require India's permission, as common Indian fan boy use to claim. Prove me wrong

 

[danger007]

Bro I know about FGFA, it will be more like your tailored product similar to MKI, But the guy up there Sergi claimed that India contributed in PAK-FA. This Claim is like if Indian had Co-developed SU-30 instead of MKI.

I say PAK-FA is Sole Russian jet and FGFA would be Different version for India. If Russia want to cell PAK-FA to any other country (Excluding Pakistan, China etc.) it may not require India's permission, as common Indian fan boy use to claim. Prove me wrong

don't come to stupid arguments unless you know fact..... is their any one talking about JF-17 and pakistan contribution.....