Sukhoi PAK-FA / FGFA: Updates,News & Discussions

[sancho]

a silly question i want to ask can internal weapon bay accomodate Air to surface cruise missiles eg brahmos

That depends on the size of the weapon bays, Brahmos won't fit for sure, but afaik Kh 35 and Kh-58USHKE are aimed to be integrated, both with around 4m lenght. That would be enough for stand off weapons like JSOW or HOSBO, but not for real cruise missiles and while the earlier won't be available for integration on a Russian fighter, the recent co-development of Germany / Israel on HOSBO (now called Pilum), could offer us a longer range weapon for FGFA. On the other hand, the biggest advantage of stealth is, that you can get way closer to a target without beeing detected, so you don't need long range weapons like it is the case with non stealth fighters.

but product 129 is still in development i think & needs funding as stated earliear by SANCHO , but IMO too early to predict
anything but intial batches of FFGA may have 117 engine until product 129 is fully operational

Check this:

India to go for Upgraded Engine for the Indo-Russian Fifth Generation T-50 Fighter Jet - Defence Now

 

[DARKY]

hmm i just wanted to hear that from u{ i.e }wrong to state as such about "IAF is not satisfied with Item 117" .

yes a wrong statement but.. It can be looked as such... never mind.

 

[DrSomnath999]

That depends on the size of the weapon bays, Brahmos won't fit for sure, but afaik Kh 35 and Kh-58USHKE are aimed to be integrated, both with around 4m lenght. That would be enough for stand off weapons like JSOW or HOSBO, but not for real cruise missiles and while the earlier won't be available for integration on a Russian fighter, the recent co-development of Germany / Israel on HOSBO (now called Pilum), could offer us a longer range weapon for FGFA.

well i think brahmos can be armed externally as i stated earlier under the fuselarge .Also what about nirbhay cruise missile well i
know we dont know nothing about Nirbhay ,but to be a real multi role fighter u must be able to fire AS cruises missiles

On the other hand, the biggest advantage of stealth is, that you can get way closer to a target without beeing detected, so you don't need long range weapons like it is the case with non stealth fighters.

but by chance if stealth is blown or u got detected by next gen SAMs then ????
a long range stand off cruise missile would always be a safe bait for any fighter

Check this:

India to go for Upgraded Engine for the Indo-Russian Fifth Generation T-50 Fighter Jet - Defence Now

well i had read that earliear but is it related to product 129 .???

 

[Yeti]

There is a great video on the PAK-FA engine development on YT im sure its been posted before but its worth a watch if anyone has not done so.

 

[sancho]

well i think brahmos can be armed externally as i stated earlier under the fuselarge .Also what about nirbhay cruise missile well i
know we dont know nothing about Nirbhay ,but to be a real multi role fighter u must be able to fire AS cruises missiles

Brahmos on FGFA is only possible at certain wing stations and most likely only with the future lighter version. The fuselage stations are defenitely not strong enough to carry such loads, so that is out of question as well. So far there is no stealth fighter that can carry cruise missiles internally and Nirbhay is just under development and nobody knows about it so far.

but by chance if stealth is blown or u got detected by next gen SAMs then ????
a long range stand off cruise missile would always be a safe bait for any fighter

Safer for the fighter, but not better for the mission, since the cruise missile can be detected by radar from distance and intercepted. If FGFA gets closer instead, the reaction time for the enemy is less, so better chances for a hit.

 

[DrSomnath999]

Brahmos on FGFA is only possible at certain wing stations and most likely only with the future lighter version. The fuselage stations are defenitely not strong enough to carry such loads, so that is out of question as well. So far there is no stealth fighter that can carry cruise missiles internally and Nirbhay is just under development and nobody knows about it so far.

i dont thinks wings can bear the weight of brahmos only fuselarge region can carry the weight of brahmos .
yes thats the point & this is the disadvantage of Stealth fighter that it cant carry CRUISE missiles internally .

Safer for the fighter, but not better for the mission, since the cruise missile can be detected by radar from distance and intercepted. If FGFA gets closer instead, the reaction time for the enemy is less, so better chances for a hit.

if stealth cruise missiles like scalp/ JASM can be detected why cant stealth planes .The problem is we have to make FFGA really
stealthier .but i dont like to say this but are we ?????

 

[DARKY]

Here a question which was asked to Saturn GD V Chepkin in some interview.

Q. By the way, if we compare the T-50 "with the" F-22 ", Western sources say that the T-50" loses much of the last parameters such as infrared engine visibility in the rear hemisphere ?

We're working very intensely, and to reduce the infrared and radar visibility, and were twice as better performance in comparison with the "F-22" (at least for those data that are published and which I have).

Q. Today, the Chinese have copied our Su-27 "and are ready to sell it on world markets at dumping prices. ?

We do not lose, because such an aircraft as we do, the Chinese have no time soon will be! They say that the plane made is 5-th generation, but you can say anything ... They are the best engine copied from our "AL-31F. We also do engine 5-th generation, and it is in all of its parameters on traction, in specific fuel consumption corresponds to the 5-th generation.

"I open a secret and say that we actually already have two motors 5-th generation. The second, which is now conventionally called the "Type 30", has already been tested in flight on the fighter T-50 "According to its parameters it a 15-25 percent greater than "117 ".

Russian 5th Gen.Engines

AL-41F1S ("Item 117S") 86kN/137kN
АЛ-41Ф1С ("Изделие 117С") (8,800kgf/14,000kgf)

Al-41F1 ("Item 117") 86kN/147kN
АЛ-41Ф1 ("Изделие 117") (8,800kgf/14,989kgf)

"Type 30" ("тип 30") At 15% increase:
98.9kN/169.05kN (10,084kgf/17,238kgf)

"Item 129" ("Изделие 129") 107kN/176kN (10,910kgf/17,947kgf)

 

[DrSomnath999]

Here a question which was Saturn GD V Chepkin in some interview.

By the way, if we compare the T-50 "with the" F-22 ", Western sources say that the T-50" loses much of the last parameters such as infrared engine visibility in the rear hemisphere ?

We're working very intensely, and to reduce the infrared and radar visibility, and were twice as better performance in comparison with the "F-22" (at least for those data that are published and which I have).

Today, the Chinese have copied our Su-27 "and are ready to sell it on world markets at dumping prices. ?

We do not lose, because such an aircraft as we do, the Chinese have no time soon will be! They say that the plane made is 5-th generation, but you can say anything ... They are the best engine copied from our "AL-31F. We also do engine 5-th generation, and it is in all of its parameters on traction, in specific fuel consumption corresponds to the 5-th generation.

"I open a secret and say that we actually already have two motors 5-th generation. The second, which is now conventionally called the "Type 30", has already been tested in flight on the fighter T-50 "According to its parameters it a 15-25 percent greater than "117 ".

Russian 5th Gen.Engines

AL-41F1S ("Item 117S") 86kN/137kN
АЛ-41Ф1С ("Изделие 117С") (8,800kgf/14,000kgf)

Al-41F1 ("Item 117") 86kN/147kN
АЛ-41Ф1 ("Изделие 117") (8,800kgf/14,989kgf)

"Type 30" ("тип 30") At 15% increase:
98.9kN/169.05kN (10,084kgf/17,238kgf)

"Item 129" ("Изделие 129") 107kN/176kN (10,910kgf/17,947kgf)

very less info given here better wait for next update on this anyway thanks for this info

 

[DARKY]

Su-30MK, '503' previously used to test Irbis-E radar, flight testing Tikhomirov's AESA radar for PAK-FA

An year old image.

 

[sancho]

i dont thinks wings can bear the weight of brahmos only fuselarge region can carry the weight of brahmos .

That's why I said most likely only with the future lighter version.

if stealth cruise missiles like scalp/ JASM can be detected why cant stealth planes .

They are not really stealthy, only because they have some minor shapings or coatings. Also currently we have only Kh 59 and will get Brahmos which both are not really stealthy.

 

[DARKY]

i dont thinks wings can bear the weight of brahmos only fuselarge region can carry the weight of brahmos .
yes thats the point & this is the disadvantage of Stealth fighter that it cant carry CRUISE missiles internally .

Brahmos is a very big CM besides being heavy It requires a lot of space which is not the case with
Kh-59/31/35
Most of them designed to be carried in an Internal weapon bay.
The future variants of brahmos can be lighter and smaller hypersonic ones which could fit in the central elongated bays.

if stealth cruise missiles like scalp/ JASM can be detected why cant stealth planes .The problem is we have to make FFGA really
stealthier .but i dont like to say this but are we ?????

Do we need to have FGFA stealthy as such ?
We are not going to fight US... or F-22A equipped country... and since our policy is not as ambitious as US/Chinese... we can do with a F-35 standard RCS plane which would be as lethal as F-22 in terms of stealth under support by EW in vicinity of our platforms.
Although I agree that a squadron of such stealthy plane for nuclear delivery would be a dream come true for our AF.

 

[DrSomnath999]

They are not really stealthy, only because they have some minor shapings or coatings.

well boss ,cruise missiles are usually stealthy because of terrain hugging capabily but scalp/jassm is indeed stealth cruise missile ,and it is due to that shapings or coatings which u are stating minor

Also currently we have only Kh 59 and will get Brahmos which both are not really stealthy.

yes thats a problem cant say about KH 59 but brahmos is not stealthy thats a fact .
Stealth jets actually have a problem of accomodating cruise missiles in their weapon bay due to size problems ,but as u said
earliear stealth jet can penetrate deep into enemy's air defence thanks to it's stealth and it's handicap is compensated .
well BTW we are getting off topic .ok

 

[DrSomnath999]

Brahmos is a very big CM besides being heavy It requires a lot of space which is not the case with
Kh-59/31/35
Most of them designed to be carried in an Internal weapon bay.
The future variants of brahmos can be lighter and smaller hypersonic ones which could fit in the central elongated bays.

lets hope so , & i hope they also built nirbhay cruise missile keeping PAK FA in mind

Do we need to have FGFA stealthy as such ?
We are not going to fight US... or F-22A equipped country... and since our policy is not as ambitious as US/Chinese... we can do with a F-35 standard RCS plane which would be as lethal as F-22 in terms of stealth under support by EW in vicinity of our platforms.
Although I agree that a squadron of such stealthy plane for nuclear delivery would be a dream come true for our AF.

yes , the point is even if god forbids, pakfa is not stealthy as j20 we dont need to be disheartened as we would always have
edge on chinese on avionics , ECM & bvraam missile technolgy thanks to our reach in western FRANCE , isreali & russian
equipments .So we dont have to worry if pakfa doent turn out to be as stealthy as expected .

 

[rockstarIN]

Even Brahmos not stealthy...its speed make it hardly defendable.

 

[sancho]

For fifth-generation aircraft have gold-plated glass

Deposition of gold would make the cockpit and pilot's invisible to radar

In Obninsk NPP "Technology", which produces composite components for the fifth-generation aircraft T-50, developed a unique coating that protects the glass cockpit from the radio waves, and solar radiation. Thanks to him, the signal from the radar, air defense systems is not reflected from the cockpit, and the devices installed inside, remain invisible to the electronic systems of intelligence of the enemy.

In addition, the pilot is protected from intense radiation near the radar flying aircraft. However, for light aircraft remained transparent in the deposition is necessary to use gold.

As told "Izvestia" the chief designer of NPP «Technology» Vladimir Vikulin, make multilayer deposition of several metals - gold, indium and tin. The thickness of one layer is less than 20 nanometers (one meter - a billion nanometers), and the entire film - 90 nm. Despite this small amount of metal radiozametnost cockpit equipment is reduced by 250 times.

- In order to apply this coating, we have developed a special magnetron setup, which allows you to achieve a uniform coating thickness of each layer is 20 nm. Uniformity is very important: if the thickness exceed, change the optical properties of the cab, if you make too thin - electromagnetic radiation would be "leaking" - explained Vikulin.

According to him, for coating airplane lamp is placed in the autoclave from which evacuated. Then, a special electromagnetic gun evaporating metal "paint" coating uniformly applying the electrons on the surface regardless of its curvature...

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