Sukhoi PAK-FA / FGFA: Updates,News & Discussions

[DrSomnath999]

PAK FA uses Item 117 IMO.. which is a direct evolution of Al-41.. while Item 117C/S is a derivative based on Al-31FN.

pakfa would use 117 but current protype uses 117S which is a derivative of AL -41F , i think next or 5th prototype may have 117
which may have radar blocker or not that needs to be seen

 

[kingdurgaking]

pakfa would use 117 but current protype uses 117S which is a derivative of AL -41F , i think next or 5th prototype may have 117
which may have radar blocker or not that needs to be seen

The Engine might even come out during production stage... and PAK-FA last prototype (i.e.) 7 th & 8th one i guess will have all the stealth features like LO, Radar blockers etc..

 

[DrSomnath999]

The Engine might even come out during production stage... and PAK-FA last prototype (i.e.) 7 th & 8th one i guess will have all the stealth features like LO, Radar blockers etc..

lets hope so

 

[sancho]

But does SU 35 engine doesnt have radar blockers???

No Su 35 don't have radar blockers, it reduced the RCS to some extend by using newer materials compared to the older Flankers, but is far away from having a low RCS compared to modern fighters.

pakfa would use 117 but current protype uses 117S which is a derivative of AL -41F , i think next or 5th prototype may have 117

The Russians are confusing with their engines designations, but the real NG engine is not even developed now and awaits Indian funding. The engines the T50 use now, are derivates of the Su 35 engine, which is more capable, but still based on the AL 31. I find it very interesting that although so much time has gone by since the first flight of T50, or even the agreement on FGFA, that till now there are not even windtunnel models of the final Pak Fa / FGFA.
We have the base airframe which will remain the same, but anything besides the cockpit section and the wings could be pretty different later (new air intake, fuselage, radar blockers, engines, maybe position, TVC, coatings, materials, even sensors), which shows how less we know about it so far.

 

[DrSomnath999]

The Russians are confusing with their engines designations, but the real NG engine is not even developed now and awaits Indian funding.

well the russian stated that 117 is the designation of PAKFA engine i think it would be installed in indian FFGA also
Rivals Join For Next Stage Of PAK FA Engine | AVIATION WEEK
but what is product 129

Lenta.ru:

The engines the T50 use now, are derivates of the Su 35 engine, which is more capable, but still based on the AL 31. I find it very interesting that although so much time has gone by since the first flight of T50, or even the agreement on FGFA, that till now there are not even windtunnel models of the final Pak Fa / FGFA.

i didnt get u what more final models they would make , do u mean they would make another final new model like F22 from YF 23
is it ???

We have the base airframe which will remain the same, but anything besides the cockpit section and the wings could be pretty different later (new air intake, fuselage, radar blockers, engines, maybe position, TVC, coatings, materials, even sensors), which shows how less we know about it so far.

Hmm so u are becoming speculative like me ok i have also right to be speculative like u

well it is confirmed it is going to be 2 seater nothing more to debate here

but rest thing u said
1) new air intake : well not sure but it is canted & exposes only 1/3rd of engine's compresor face compare to su 30 mki'
2) fuselarge : will change for sure for FFGA as obviously 2 seater plane but minor i think
3) radar blockers : of course they have to use or else no way it can hide the compressor blades completely
4) Engine : definitely if u trust the sources saturn 117 (supercruise engine}
5) postion : not sure
6)TVC : sure that too 3 axis
7) coating: of course but in final production model , why would they waste money on ram coating on protype , may be new gen
ram coating .Also they would use it air intake pathway of the engine to absorb scattered radar waves
8) materials : of course composites would be used extensively india would use it's composites experience on LCA on pakfa
9) Sensors: well we can expect foreign sensors like french EW suites / israeli systems but india should codevelop with THales
latest EW suite like Next GEn spectra system

But bro what about development on plasma stealth is it fiction or for real ?????

 

[sancho]

i didnt get u what more final models they would make , do u mean they would make another final new model like F22 from YF 23
is it ???

Of course, the T50 prototypes are just base models, but the final version is still about to come, just like YF 22 is different to the current F22.

Hmm so u are becoming speculative like me

Partially, because too less reliable information are available so far, especially about FGFA!

well it is confirmed it is going to be 2 seater nothing more to debate here

Well you actually just showed where the debate starts A straighter twin seat config like in your pic, or this config, that is similar to MKI again:

1) new air intake : well not sure but it is canted & exposes only 1/3rd of engine's compresor face compare to su 30 mki

You can't compare it to MKI or other current Flankers, because the design is too different. The engine is inverted to the airframe and angled downwards as well. The air intakes are shaped in the front and has DSI like provisions, not to forget that the gear will be folded into the intake, not upwards to the wing, like it is the case for MKI.

5) postion : not sure

That was my speculative part, because I still see a chance that the final version could have a similar solution like the YF 23 (engine face would be located straight again and above the wing mainly, with the intake below)

6)TVC : sure that too 3 axis

Completelly unsure, 2D similar to F22 is possible as well and maybe even more likely:

The thrust deflection to the sides is hardly possible without hitting the fins.

But bro what about development on plasma stealth is it fiction or for real ?????

Who knows, we don't get every infos for sure and it will remain a myth like active cancellation of SPECTRA.

 

[angeldemon_007]

Sensors: well we can expect foreign sensors like french EW suites / israeli systems but india should codevelop with THales
latest EW suite like Next GEn spectra system

We have developed a very good EW system in collaboration with Cassidian. It will be used on all our upgrades and future aircrafts. For instance Mi29 UPG will carry this.

 

[DrSomnath999]

Of course, the T50 prototypes are just base models, but the final version is still about to come, just like YF 22 is different to the current F22.

lets hopes so ,
may they come out with something special , but i dont expect any radical changes. Lets see in future what happens

Partially, because too less reliable information are available so far, especially about FGFA!

i think they are concentrating more on pakfa than FFGa at the moment right now .

Well you actually just showed where the debate starts A straighter twin seat config like in your pic, or this config, that is similar to MKI again:

i didnt get u properly i dont find any differnce betwenn the two apart from 1 metal frame in the canopy between the 2 pilots
in the paralay pic of FFGA u posted

You can't compare it to MKI or other current Flankers, because the design is too different. The engine is inverted to the airframe and angled downwards as well. The air intakes are shaped in the front and has DSI like provisions, not to forget that the gear will be folded into the intake, not upwards to the wing, like it is the case for MKI.

yes i know but i had compare it as to prove that MKI inlet & pakfa inlet are different as some fools say it as same
one thing u should notice that these air intake of pakfa has n advantage .
SEE here the F22 & J20 cant carry external weapons below the fuselarge they have to carry it under their wings

Mean while pakfa can carry external weapons below fuselarge thanks to air intake which is not is same plane with fuselarge
below like F22 & J20

So having a radar blocker along with reduced exposure of engine compressor face coupled with ram coating on air intake would
help reduction of much radar waves from engine's blades through air intake

That was my speculative part, because I still see a chance that the final version could have a similar solution like the YF 23 (engine face would be located straight again and above the wing mainly, with the intake below)

sorry i cant comment on this until we see anything from our own eyes

Completelly unsure, 2D similar to F22 is possible as well and maybe even more likely:

this is the only speculative part that i am sure the russians would prefer 3 axis TVC as in sources they had stated they would
build 3 AXIS tvc engines for PAK fA . IMO i think russians wont compromise manuverabilty for stealth

The thrust deflection to the sides is hardly possible without hitting the fins.

i dont think so it has sufficent spaces around the fin for movement of TVC nozzles

Who knows, we don't get every infos for sure and it will remain a myth like active cancellation of SPECTRA.

lolllzz , i hope DARE 2 is nt watching this orelse he would have bashed u like anything for saying a word against spectra

We have developed a very good EW system in collaboration with Cassidian. It will be used on all our upgrades and future aircrafts. For instance Mi29 UPG will carry this.

but we can cooperate with THALES as they have some cutting edge avionics & ECM like they have developed laser based DIRCM
for IR guided missiles which would be fitted with DDM NG on rafale F3 version

 

[sancho]

but i dont expect any radical changes

Only the fuselage / engine part will be very different from what we see now.

i didnt get u properly i dont find any differnce

Compare MKI with EF or Rafale twin seaters and you will see the difference. As far as not even an official model of FGFA is available, the design will remain debatable.

Mean while pakfa can carry external weapons below fuselarge thanks to air intake

Which is not that important, since stealth fighters will always use weapons internally, as long as they fit in the weapon bays and Pak Fa weapon bays are quiet big.

 

[DARKY]

IMO item 117 is already being tested on PAK FA.... while the final engine wouldn't be 117 but Item 129 which would have higher T/W ratio of 12+ and a real 5th gen. standard.. Item 117 has T/W ratio of about 11... while Item 117C has it around 10.5.

Indian FG FA production varients would have Item 129... and not Item 117.

 

[DrSomnath999]

Which is not that important, since stealth fighters will always use weapons internally, as long as they fit in the weapon bays and Pak Fa weapon bays are quiet big.

a silly question i want to ask can internal weapon bay accomodate Air to surface cruise missiles eg brahmos

IMO item 117 is already being tested on PAK FA.... while the final engine wouldn't be 117 but Item 129 which would have higher T/W ratio of 12+ and a real 5th gen. standard.. Item 117 has T/W ratio of about 11... while Item 117C has it around 10.5.

Indian FG FA production varients would have Item 129... and not Item 117.

but product 129 is still in development i think & needs funding as stated earliear by SANCHO , but IMO too early to predict
anything but intial batches of FFGA may have 117 engine until product 129 is fully operational

 

[DARKY]

but product 129 is still in development i think & needs funding as stated earliear by SANCHO , but IMO too early to predict
anything but intial batches of FFGA may have 117 engine until product 129 is fully operational

Yes Initial would have Item 117 for both PAK FA and FGFA.. 1st PT flight testing of Item 129 can't be expected anytime before 2015 and 2017 on a PAK FA PT... so any Item 129 would be a reality only by 2020.

India is actively funding the engine development.... since IAF is not satisfied with Item 117... on their plane.

 

[DrSomnath999]

India is actively funding the engine development.... since IAF is not satisfied with Item 117... on their plane.

well i dont know whether they are satisied Item 117 or not, its about requirements of IAF , If they want 129 they have to fund it

 

[DARKY]

well i dont know whether they are satisied Item 117 or not, its about requirements of IAF , If they want 129 they have to fund it

Yes It would be wrong to state as such... the real info said that IAF wanted a different and better engine from what was proposed for PAK FA... and they are willing to fund it much like they have been for many weapons for the FG FA.

 

[DrSomnath999]

Yes It would be wrong to state as such... the real info said that IAF wanted a different and better engine from what was proposed for PAK FA... and they are willing to fund it much like they have been for many weapons for the FG FA.

hmm i just wanted to hear that from u{ i.e }wrong to state as such about "IAF is not satisfied with Item 117" .