SU-30's Cobra Maneuvers - A Treat for PAF Shaheen

[Dash]

I sometimes wonder how people can make sense out of a stupid fan boy article..This thread is worth reading from the end..

 

[GURU DUTT]

As usual you are going on off topic rant......then you complain about infractions.

Choolah, samaan, farmers, hatam hatya are not the topic of the thread.

ok ok bhai mai aapka dard samjh sakta hoon khair jane do

on topic ..well to be true there is onli one platform in IAF that is keep the heads of the PAF on toes and that is MKI ...no one says its invincible rather its a large & heavy plane and requires two pilots + maintainence is real pain but despite all that it still has no answer and will remain supreme till the FGFA/chinese stealth planes come that said even as of today there is hardli a plane in PAF arsenell that can counter the MKI ...you have just 18 F 16 that too of block 52 which are at par too owr upgraded mirrages or say MIG29 and we have some 60+58 copies of them so tell me how does it realli matters whether your devine shaheens will treat on MKI while performing an arial stunt as even before your latest F16 fires its BVR on MKI the MKI would have launched at least two different types of BVRs on you and scooted to safety as its radar can guide in the opposite/rear end aswell for almost 65 KMs after that the seakers on the BVR will take over + even if one misses owr doctroine has it that two BVRs minimum are fired upon a single target and MKI can take on at least 6 targets that means it will have 12 BVR's as against just 4 on your F16 hope u get the point sir so just tell me how will your devine shaheens come close as they already know the end result....thing is all you can do is boast and do chest thumping .....lolzz the problem with your nation is that it also knows that its chest is so weakened that if it does more chest thumping chances are it wont be able to do much after that

now at last i ask again how will you counter MKI

 

[Windjammer]

ok ok bhai mai aapka dard samjh sakta hoon khair jane do

on topic ..well to be true there is onli one platform in IAF that is keep the heads of the PAF on toes and that is MKI ...no one says its invincible rather its a large & heavy plane and requires two pilots + maintainence is real pain but despite all that it still has no answer and will remain supreme till the FGFA/chinese stealth planes come that said even as of today there is hardli a plane in PAF arsenell that can counter the MKI ...you have just 18 F 16 that too of block 52 which are at par too owr upgraded mirrages or say MIG29 and we have some 60+58 copies of them so tell me how does it realli matters whether your devine shaheens will treat on MKI while performing an arial stunt as even before your latest F16 fires its BVR on MKI the MKI would have launched at least two different types of BVRs on you and scooted to safety as its radar can guide in the opposite/rear end aswell for almost 65 KMs after that the seakers on the BVR will take over + even if one misses owr doctroine has it that two BVRs minimum are fired upon a single target and MKI can take on at least 6 targets that means it will have 12 BVR's as against just 4 on your F16 hope u get the point sir so just tell me how will your devine shaheens come close as they already know the end result....thing is all you can do is boast and do chest thumping .....lolzz the problem with your nation is that it also knows that its chest is so weakened that if it does more chest thumping chances are it wont be able to do much after that

now at last i ask again how will you counter MKI

Darudh tu tujey apney pate mein hey, tub hi kabi mashraq aur kabi mughrab ko pakartey ho.

Anyway, as for as air war is concerned, you are just a beginner, thinking just cos SU-30 can carry more weapons it automatically becomes a winner.....far from it.....unlike US and Russia or China, India/Pakistan share a common border, very little warning and reaction time....any future war will be a nightmare for the likes of AWACS, struggling to distinguish between incoming and outgoing sorties. BVR albeit useful will not be utilised to it's full potential.....big aircraft where it has advantages also comes with severe disadvantages, like the US carriers sail with half a dozen escort ships, a big bird will also need some protection. If back in 1971, a PAF radar controller could spot a tiny Gnat flying out of Halwara into Amritsar, imagine the vulnerability of a big platform like SU-30 in this day and age.....both in air and ground. !!!

 

[GURU DUTT]

Darudh tu tujey apney pate mein hey, tub hi kabi mashraq aur kabi mughrab ko pakartey ho.

Anyway, as for as air war is concerned, you are just a beginner, thinking just cos SU-30 can carry more weapons it automatically becomes a winner.....far from it.....unlike US and Russia or China, India/Pakistan share a common border, very little warning and reaction time....any future war will be a nightmare for the likes of AWACS, struggling to distinguish between incoming and outgoing sorties. BVR albeit useful will not be utilised to it's full potential.....big aircraft where it has advantages also comes with severe disadvantages, like the US carriers sail with half a dozen escort ships, a big bird will also need some protection. If back in 1971, a PAF radar controller could spot a tiny Gnat flying out of Halwara into Amritsar, imagine the vulnerability of a big platform like SU-30 in this day and age.....both in air and ground. !!!

well boss MKI juast doesnt have twice the paylod but has a radar that can see a F 16 taking off and start track it while it still around sarghoda air base while flying over amritsar tell me how will you counter that and dont forget owr phalcons are twice as power full as your swedish AWACS + they have ground support from the latest French , Israeli And american 3D , ASEA radars not to mention other stuff ....im asking once again how will you take on mighty MKI with just 18 F16s as we have kept 140 alone for pakistani border rest 132 will patrol the chinese border and as of now we have 170+ MKIs with us

now about the protection well we have more than u ever imagined this time around as we learned owr lessons in 1965 itself + just to name a few we have S 300PMU, syder sam system , akash while maitri , yashodhar , barak LR & MR are in pipe line + a huge inoventorry of russian systems & very soon AAD & PAD will be operational too not to forget at each air/army base has its own classified 3 layered independent air defence mechanism lolzzz above all we have a sat cover which scans all the pakistan almost 24X7X365 days of the year ....so tell me what will you do ...answer is you cant do anything and that perciesly why your planners came up with the idea of strategikk assets...be afraid be very very afraid as the woid is onli going to increase and your economy cant......khair jane do itna hi kafi hai

 

[Irfan Baloch]

MISSILE MAXIMUM RANGE ARE FOR REFERENCE
please dont take them to heart, they wont be fired from max range because that allowed maximum time to the target to evade it or deploy countermeasures.

MKI is a formidable platform and it will be flown by IAF's finest. whether the Cobra Maneuvers will remain a spectator display item or a real battle tactic remains to be seen.

 

[Windjammer]

well boss MKI juast doesnt have twice the paylod but has a radar that can see a F 16 taking off and start track it while it still around sarghoda air base while flying over amritsar tell me how will you counter that and dont forget owr phalcons are twice as power full as your swedish AWACS + they have ground support from the latest French , Israeli And american 3D , ASEA radars not to mention other stuff ....im asking once again how will you take on mighty MKI with just 18 F16s as we have kept 140 alone for pakistani border rest 132 will patrol the chinese border and as of now we have 170+ MKIs with us

now about the protection well we have more than u ever imagined this time around as we learned owr lessons in 1965 itself + just to name a few we have S 300PMU, syder sam system , akash while maitri , yashodhar , barak LR & MR are in pipe line + a huge inoventorry of russian systems & very soon AAD & PAD will be operational too not to forget at each air/army base has its own classified 3 layered independent air defence mechanism lolzzz above all we have a sat cover which scans all the pakistan almost 24X7X365 days of the year ....so tell me what will you do ...answer is you cant do anything and that perciesly why your planners came up with the idea of strategikk assets...be afraid be very very afraid as the woid is onli going to increase and your economy cant......khair jane do itna hi kafi hai

You see there are powers like America, Russia and China who don't have to tell anyone what they have and what they are capable of but then off course there's Indians who tend to make all the noises and create terminologies like CS....surgical strikes, cross border raids, hot pursuits etc. etc.... just to keep the hallow ego topped up......you are repeating the same claims and lines over' over, however in case you didn't notice, i haven't disclosed any as such because......woh kahtey hain, adhi gaghree chalak jayee.....

 

[manojb]

SU-30MKI aircraft implies two Saturn Al-31FP turbofans, which gives good thrust to the aircraft. Yet, the quality of these engines due to Russian origin still remain highly susceptible as compare to RD-93(Advance version of Russian RD-33), Pratt & Whitney or even Rolls Royce. In case of any disruption of the engines, Indians Airforce has no other choice but to send the engines back to Russia to be fixed, rather repairing them at home.

I am sure the article is written by highschool kid !

 

[gambit]

Guys,

Regarding weapons load...Take a lesson from the Vietnam War.

The North Vietnamese Air Force had very limited quantity of MIG-21s so despite the fact that the -21 could outmaneuver everything the Americans had at that time, the VPAF had to carefully husband those -21s. The goal was not to achieve air supremacy over home soil, the Americans were too numerous for that, but rather to reduce the damages the American air strikes can deliver.

American fighter-bombers were often harassed by the -21s in hit-and-run, also known as slash-and-dash, tactic employed by the VPAF. Here is the catch: The moment the American fighter-bomber formation was attacked, regardless of whether anyone downed or not, the entire formation dumped its bombs and everyone turned to fight. The VPAF effectively accomplished its mission for that day by causing the fighter-bombers dumped their bombs.

It is unlikely to be any different today. Any fighter-bomber flight would probably dump its bombs the moment of attack by the enemy. Could some turn and fight while the others continue? Yes, but then so could the enemy when some would continue pursuit of those fighter-bombers.

So in this hypothetical air conflict that we know neither side possess heavy bombers, or at least in any significant quantity, the bulk of ground attacks will be by fighter-bombers. Each side will assess which enemy ground targets are vital in the prosecution of the war. Each side will allocate air defense, strike, and air superiority packages as perceived, but if the goal is to support ground objectives, absent heavies, the fighter-bomber will have to do. And at the moment one or two comrades called for help, everyone else will dump their bombs to fight air-air.

 

[Major Shaitan Singh]

The days for PAF is gone.....

They will be more defensive then offensive.... Forget about crossing the border...

When the WAR cloud with bloom in our border the Tier 1 & 2 will have multi layer of Air defence and Army HQ near border will have more effective Air Defence in Place and every thing will be on high alert.

Air defence System
From Akask to AAD and PAD, Spyder , S300PMU and Barak System will be activated..... backed hellfire by AAA...

Backed by Radars
Green Pine, Rohini Radar, Rajendra Radar, Indra Radar, Aerostat Radar, Sword Fish Radar, GS 100, BFSR-SR 2D

Indian Air defence Aircraft
Indian Awacs (Phalcon and DRDO)
SU30MKI
MiG 29
Mirage 2000V

 

[Irfan Baloch]

The days for PAF is gone.....

They will be more defensive then offensive.... Forget about crossing the border...

lets keep the scope limited to airwar and the plane in question, when you bring in the entire air defence systems then there are too many variables and everything you are throwing here has a Pakistani response as well when on the defensive side. so questioning the range of JF-17 or F-16 becomes meaningless if the SAM long range batteries are to be considered.

 

[GURU DUTT]

You see there are powers like America, Russia and China who don't have to tell anyone what they have and what they are capable of but then off course there's Indians who tend to make all the noises and create terminologies like CS....surgical strikes, cross border raids, hot pursuits etc. etc.... just to keep the hallow ego topped up......you are repeating the same claims and lines over' over, however in case you didn't notice, i haven't disclosed any as such because......woh kahtey hain, adhi gaghree chalak jayee.....

sir is that your frustaion or what never mind but hard facts are niether you are USA , Russia or china your basicalli a mercenarry state who did dirty work of USA , Saudia and now china for what = wepons for your forces to keep india in check and even after all your so called loyalties to umaah(sending your devine pilots to fight israel for arabs) & USA(fighting against USSR) you are now left with no credible options , your country is raptured , your on a brink of a civil war and just hanging to save your self from bancruptsy so even if you had manged to sneak a few wepons that dosent means you are in a state to fight india and all you can hope is that china fights india some day but reality is china knows very well if it gets into a war with india all its small naighbours will not hesitate to engage china plus USA & west are also hoping as they know onli india can contain china and help will pour in as it did to pakistan in 80,s against the USSR covert war but this time around do you realli think you pose any danger to us all you have are a few dozen neukes and some missiles but we are working not just keeping Pakistan in mind we have china on owr radar so stop living in dream land there is nothing you can do to contain India or its growing power ...hame girane se achha hota ki ap logo ne khud ko uthane per itna waqt zaya kiya hota ..wo kehte hain na ...rassi jal gayee bal nahi gaya

 

[Irfan Baloch]

o
now at last i ask again how will you counter MKI

there was a thread on that and some of my Indian friends took it as an insult and got emotional.

here is the link with arguments and counter arguments, counter counter arguments, rants and more


http://www.defence.pk/forums/pakistan-air-force/160130-how-paf-should-counter-su-30-mki.html

sir is that your frustaion:

hosla ker babu

its just a thread on a forum, why so serious?

 

[GURU DUTT]

there was a thread on that and some of my Indian friends took it as an insult and got emotional.

here is the link with arguments and counter arguments, counter counter arguments, rants and more


http://www.defence.pk/forums/pakistan-air-force/160130-how-paf-should-counter-su-30-mki.html



hosla ker babu

its just a thread on a forum, why so serious?

salaam irfan bhai jammer mere bhai hain aur inka ek ehsan hai mujh per bhai ji mai sirf apni baat keh raha tha serous to main

 

[Windjammer]

The days for PAF is gone.....

They will be more defensive then offensive.... Forget about crossing the border...

When the WAR cloud with bloom in our border the Tier 1 & 2 will have multi layer of Air defence and Army HQ near border will have more effective Air Defence in Place and every thing will be on high alert.

Air defence System
From Akask to AAD and PAD, Spyder , S300PMU and Barak System will be activated..... backed hellfire by AAA...

Backed by Radars
Green Pine, Rohini Radar, Rajendra Radar, Indra Radar, Aerostat Radar, Sword Fish Radar, GS 100, BFSR-SR 2D

Indian Air defence Aircraft
Indian Awacs (Phalcon and DRDO)
SU30MKI
MiG 29
Mirage 2000V

You forgot to add your capability to fight a two front war in one day. !!

 

[Capt.Popeye]

I sometimes wonder how people can make sense out of a stupid fan boy article..This thread is worth reading from the end..

True enough all of that. It is just a blog-piece written by a half-knowing Fanboy posted by a Windy Joe!

SU-30MKI aircraft implies two Saturn Al-31FP turbofans, which gives good thrust to the aircraft. Yet, the quality of these engines due to Russian origin still remain highly susceptible as compare to RD-93(Advance version of Russian RD-33), Pratt & Whitney or even Rolls Royce. In case of any disruption of the engines, Indians Airforce has no other choice but to send the engines back to Russia to be fixed, rather repairing them at home.

Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/pakist...aneuvers-treat-paf-shaheen.html#ixzz2WfcsgcP9

The Moron who wrote the piece just confirmed his abysmal ignorance by that extract above. If the AL-31s are being made in HAL's engine Division in Sunabeda, Koraput in Orissa; why on earth woud they have to be sent back to Russia for overhaul? I have even seen the BRD in Western India where the O/H is carried out. Absurd Tripe!!!

Then the Dumbo goes even further to say that the Russian origin RD-93 is superior to AL-31s which in his "wise judgement" is inferior only because it is of Russian origin!!!

Only some Windy bloke can pick on this piece of "literature" in the hopes of making a point.