SU-30's Cobra Maneuvers - A Treat for PAF Shaheen

[Jayanta]

They have plenty of SU-30 and will have Super SU-30 and Rafael in near future. While in near future our fleet of F-16 will be approx 70-80.

And F-16 is the only serious aircraft in our inventory. Rest of Light weight fighters will be annihilated by SU-30 and RAFAEL. So get out of this mentality it is always the man behind the machine. Technology has evolved up to such a point that It's not man behind the machine rather it's net centric and modern warmachines fight which we seriously lack

Just one correction : RAFAEL is not a fighter, it is an Israeli defense company that makes state of the art missiles like SPYDER, PYTHON, DERBY etc.

Rafael Advanced Defense Systems Ltd.

The fighter you are speaking about is RAFALE, manufactured by Dassault (French).

Dassault Rafale - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

And on a lighter note, overconfidence might lead to this...watch the video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xzyBBocE7Lc

So taking Su-30MKI is not advisable.

 

[EAK]

I am not going to debunk something which has been debunked over and over again... there is one saying, "ghorkalla mele maLe suridange" means whatever rain falls on rock, will not seep inside. All I was laughing for was the usage of the word, "falling like bird", I mean, birds are not known for falling but for flying. It is similar to saying silent like thunder.... still can't control laughing...

Well now thats over acting

 

[DARKY]

I'm not just talking about cobra, all air show type manoeuvres.
TVC does has it's advantages, you can pull-off impressive cobra like stunts and also improves turn rates, however it also has it's disadvantages, use of TVC bleeds energy and you can see that in almost all cobra videos, the Sukhoi goes into a nose dive immediately after cobra and recovers.

Use of any control surface for that matter bleeds energy while performing any meneuver or turns... even more than what a TVC would do... your point being.

In airshows the pilots avoid unecessary stress on the engine and the airframe... The pilot can shoot up the thrusters just after the maneuver to gain speed again.... net AB thrust is about 270KN.

 

[Jungibaaz]

Use of any control surface for that matter bleeds energy while performing any meneuver or turns... even more than what a TVC would do... your point being.

True.
I mean, use of TVC in some means you turn about the same as other aircraft but at a much higher AoA.
The a/c tilts around it's center of gravity, far more drag and thus bleeds more energy.

 

[Thirdfront]

Well now thats over acting

No acting. When I was in college, same situation happened with my friend. He saw a tall person in the college and exclaimed - "that guy is tall as an elephant!". We used to mock him (we still do) with similar phrases after that. This sentence brought back those memories back....

 

[Windjammer]

PLEASE HELP ME TO UNDERSTAND…As per your claim you have amazing Air Force, Army and Navy …. Then why PAKISTAN lost each and every war with India till kargil, and why your amazing Army (around lacks Personals) surrendered, ON THE KNEE.

@shree835

There seems to be some confusion here, isn't that the position you adopt when taking your daily dose of Cow Cola direct from the source.

I CAME.....I SAW (the name of the OP) & NOW I M LEAVING

Yes, leaving.....behind your habitual BS.....LIFE may be a four letter word but it's not offensive, so get one. !!

 

[indian_foxhound]

RD-93(Advance version of Russian RD-33........ sale duwe ki dukAn. To getting rid of mosquito

 

[AUSTERLITZ]

In BVR-paf f-16 blk 52/blk 50 MLU can match it.
In WVR-None.

Better thrust weight ratio,climb rate,turn rate,huge difference in angle of attack,TVC and most important lack of any hms/high off boresight missile capability like r-73 archer on any PAF aircraft means no chance.
And what was the crap about not even 100 hrs flying time for IAF pilots,Stopped taking blog seriously after that.Its 220-230 hrs.
MKI top guns clock even 250+.

 

[bloo]

30MKI aircraft implies two Saturn Al-31FP turbofans, which gives good thrust to the aircraft. Yet, the quality of these engines due to Russian origin still remain highly susceptible as compare to RD-93(Advance version of Russian RD-33), Pratt & Whitney or even Rolls Royce.

Man this guy is a hypocrite.
He says that the AL-31FP due to being Russian origin cannot be trusted yet in the same sentence he says that the RD-93 is trustworthy as cake.
He has basically written this article for himself, scouring for as much dirt as he can(which have been proven false), i think his inferiority complex was gnawing at him too much so he poops this clownish article.

 

[HAIDER]

damnnnnnn guys you still on same page..where i left you guys......SU30 life span is far less then Russian and Chinese....its game of maintenance ....Indian has very bad record....Plus Russian already complaint about parts standard and untimely replacement. which decrease the life of Plane. Hope you know well about Mirage2000 fleet issues. a clue no back parts for this plane..

 

[Windjammer]

@gambit,

Sir, your input would be very valuable and much appreciated.

 

[shree835]

@shree835

There seems to be some confusion here, isn't that the position you adopt when taking your daily dose of Cow Cola direct from the source.




Yes, leaving.....behind your habitual BS.....LIFE may be a four letter word but it's not offensive, so get one. !!

Sorry Chicha, I Don’t take Bull $hit…Please have your dose of Pig Cola from whichever source you want...

 

[GURU DUTT]

well jammer bhaiya ji salaam

Now about Su30 MKI well sir its not just about TVC and Cobra maouver well it can carry twice the load as your latest F 16 of which you have onli 1 (18) Squad while Indain air force is fielding at least 7 (18X7=126)squads ok MKI against it rest will be for chinese border and its radar can track a F16 as soon it takes of trom say sarghoda while flying over amritsar + it has two pilots for different roles & very long range BVRs + ain EWS system second to none in this part of ASIA

So my question is how will you counter SU30MKI forget about Mirrage & Migs & Rafale as it is not in service with IAF as of now

 

[Windjammer]

well jammer bhaiya ji salaam

Now about Su30 MKI well sir its not just about TVC and Cobra maouver well it can carry twice the load as your latest F 16 of which you have onli 1 (18) Squad while Indain air force is fielding at least 7 (18X7=126)squads ok MKI against it rest will be for chinese border and its radar can track a F16 as soon it takes of trom say sarghoda while flying over amritsar + it has two pilots for different roles & very long range BVRs + ain EWS system second to none in this part of ASIA

So my question is how will you counter SU30MKI forget about Mirrage & Migs & Rafale as it is not in service with IAF as of now

Why do you assume that all your future battles would be fought by SU-30.....in any case very easy scenario, SU-30, big A$$ and RCS....easy target for both Interceptors and ground based defences....say the F-16 combat proven all over the globe with huge amount of kills and victories.....what does SU-30 has to show for it's credentials except some fancy air displays and in 2008, PAF proved that your super duper SU-30 is not exactly invincible as you would like to believe.

 

[gambit]

@gambit,

Sir, your input would be very valuable and much appreciated.

Sure, here is the American version of the 'cobra'...

John Boyd - USAF, The Fighter Pilot Who Changed the Art of Air Warfare

Boyd was famous for a maneuver he called "flat-plating the bird." He would be in the defensive position with a challenger tight on his tail, both pulling heavy Gs, when he would suddenly pull the stick full aft, brace his elbows on either side of the cockpit, so the stick would not move laterally, and stomp the rudder. It was as if a manhole cover were sailing through the air and then suddenly flipped 90 degrees. The underside of the fuselage, wings, and horizontal stabilizer became a speed brake that slowed the Hun from 400 knots to 150 knots in seconds. The pursuing pilot was thrown forward and now Boyd was on his tail radioing "Guns. Guns. Guns."

The maneuver may worked back then, but not likely today. Fighters are much better in everything from speed to turning radius since Boyd's era.

Against a 9g capable -16? Fuhgeddaboudit. The -16 will be on the target's tail during recovery of lost speed. If there is helmet cueing of missiles, the target will be dead.