What's new

SU-30's Cobra Maneuvers - A Treat for PAF Shaheen

Agree. TVC is overrated.
People make it out to be something it really isn't.

As a former US test pilot puts it, Cobra is indeed thrilling and a crowd pleaser but in a battle the last thing you would want is to be out of power out of energy and just hanging in the air.....you might cause your chaser to overshoot but for anyone else out there with a decent round, you're just a sitting duck. !!
 
.
LMAO..... "falling like birds"...oh yeah, and IA tanks were standing like cheeta.... guns silent like thunder...

On topic: Looks like author was heavily "inspired" by the USAF officer whose video was widely debated. No substance in it at all. I have myself seen SU-30MKI doing cobra and recovering without breaking a sweat....
On other note, the chronology of PAF narration is something like this - Superior technology over number --> Superior Tech plus better training over number --> Technology and number are not the only thing.

Yaar, Cobra maneuver look beautiful, magnificent, breath taking and so on.. :yahoo:

But please tell us its value in a dog fight. Its significance or its tactical value. Regards
 
. .

Albeit a bit dated but nonetheless interesting read on the plus and minuses of the IAF's SU-30.


@notorious_eagle @Oscar @Luftwaffe @ANTIBODY

SU-30's Cobra Maneuvers - A Treat for PAF Shaheen


By: Qasim Al-Yaldram

The disparity between the IAF and PAF has always been in numbers , since there inceptions. But the technological edge, as most people know, have always been PAF Shaheen's school of specialism. In 1965, PAF fighter pilot was interviewed upon which he said "They are falling like birds." For detail view click the following Pakistan Air Force Pilots of 1965 War -.

That was the state of readiness our PAF has ever been since.

India has been trying hard to cover the vacuum that PAF Shaheen legacy makers left. And to some extent they have been quite successful in acquiring the Mirage2000s (French) and recently Russian state of the art roll out SU-30 MKI. The aircraft has impressed many airforces around the globe including, Indonesia, Malaysia, Venezuela, China and India in particular. Recently, Indian Airforce has been able to couple SU-30MKI aircrafts with there own indigenously developed and Israeli acquired avionics, making it a lethal fighter plane then ever before.

However, the game is not over yet!!! The will to remain intact in the war, only decides a 'Victor'. SU-30MKI is equipped with some most advance Actice ESA RADAR system Phazotron, which can track upto 15 air targets including cruise missiles and helicopters. SU-30MKI can perform complex air combat maneuvers like Pugachev's Cobra, Cobra Turns and Kulbits. And above all, the best part of the parcel is, SU-30MKI has Thrust Vectoring capability which may seem, flawless.

Even said and agreed with the technological beauty of this plane. Yet, war is not all about technology and numerical disparity. It is the way how good, one can exploit the weakness of its adversary. SU-30MKI was designed for air superiority missions including air interception and ground attack capabilities. Its air maneuverability is improved by installing canards in the front. Yet it remains a heavy plane when in the air. Thrust vector may sound amazing, but the fact is, the true potential of thrust vectoring capability during a dogfight still remain a question of doubt as of today.

The thrust vectoring in SU-30MKI forms an introverted V shaped thrust, which does not pitch the aircraft as needed, in certain air combat maneuvers e.g. doing scissor. And very unlike in F-22 Raptor which has two dimensional pitched thrust. Therefore, when the thrust vectoring is implied, it creates massive drag for such iron mass in the air, consequently, SU-30MKI is unable to sustain its height instead, it starts sinking down. And before, SU-30MKI has completed its Cobra maneuver, the pilot may be looking for ejection button, as dozen of bullets have already been drilled in to its plane by an adversary.

SU-30MKI aircraft implies two Saturn Al-31FP turbofans, which gives good thrust to the aircraft. Yet, the quality of these engines due to Russian origin still remain highly susceptible as compare to RD-93(Advance version of Russian RD-33), Pratt & Whitney or even Rolls Royce. In case of any disruption of the engines, Indians Airforce has no other choice but to send the engines back to Russia to be fixed, rather repairing them at home.

The ability of any aircraft, is exhibited as soon as it can be airborne in real time situation. SU-3MKI needs one minute spacing to take-off. Where as PAF Shaheen has been able to reduce the airborne time of A-5 aircrafts to less then one minute, which are considered to be oldest aircrafts serving today. One minute spacing means, a window of time span for PAF Shaheen to attack and destroy the rest of the SU-30MKI planes getting ready for taxi.

Last but not the least, the man behind the weapon really matters. In some of the recent air exercises held by Indian and US Airforces together like Red Flag 2008. It was found that pilots of SU-30MKIs had less then 100 flying hours, altogether. Whereas PAF Shaheen are far more superior in terms of flying hours and quality of awareness towards the practicality of technology during the war. However, its not far when SU-30MKI pilots would enhance there flying hours, excavate the true potential of this aircraft and use it for there advantage.

The world is undergoing global force-repositioning phase, where every strong nation is getting ready for offensive. It is imperative that air war doctorine of PAF Shaheen should be revised and should put on offensive footing rather then ground support and air interception missions. PAF Shaheen are second to none even now. But much more work has yet to be done by fast forwarding the JF-17 induction and J-10 procurements. PAF Shaheen has to re-establish there objectivity in terms of Pakistan's vision of calling itself "FORT OF ISLAM". PAF Shaheen has to think out of geographic boundaries and have to start working on air superiority and surgical strikes mission in India and in middle eastern fronts.

After reading this I am going mad. AL-31 Saturn is inferior because it is russian but RD-93 is superior because it is used in JF-17 & made by marsians . :omghaha:
 
Last edited by a moderator:
. . .
Leaving aside all the BS in the article,It would be Stupid to assume that IAF has not changed its training Tactics since 1965. :what:
I think every AF change its tactic when induct new weapons. That was era when pilot heavely depend on guns , now BVR. Era of chasing AC is over. Now era of launch and forget . But yes dogfight era still exist and training is still going on. Pilot flight tolerance level has been increased . Small size plane now in bomber role. Age of huge amo lifter is over.
 
.
.
I wonder how can an aircraft with primitive KLJ-7 radar affords to get in an aerial fight with upgraded IAF fighters.
 
. . . .
In 1965, PAF fighter pilot was interviewed upon which he said "They are falling like birds."
:woot: I think he should have stuck to Urdu!! Eeengliss eez phorren language!! :omghaha: Birds don't fall. They're meant to fly. I thought that was common knowledge? :undecided:

What he probably meant was, "They are falling like bird sh!t!" :cheesy: :P
 
.
Pogachev Cobra when done in a High speed chase is an effective way to bring the bogey infront of you.

An experience pilot with a good air doctrine can do wonders with su 30 MKI.

What ever maneuvers pilots perform during air shows are very slow when done in high speed dogfight they will out class the other fighter.
 
. .
Back
Top Bottom