Su-30MKI & JF-17 Air Fight

[zombie:-)]

What is that supposed to mean?

sir that means we cant be sure until a conflict involving MKI and JF-17 takes place

 

[Gucci Juice]

guys plz stop saying the jf-17 will beat mki with help from eryie, remember mki has phalcon to help which is a full fledged aewacs, while eryie is only aewc.

not only that mki has a jammer that is probably an order of magnitude more powerful than the jf-17 (incase u dont know what a jammer is its a device that disrupts radar returns which basically reduces the rcs by a bit).

and in a real fight the mki has 3x as much endurance as the jf-17, after the long range missiles are fired and miss, than it will be a dogfight, that's when the endurance factor will be huge, at most jf-17 has 5-10 minutes of fuel for dogfighting, while mki has 20-30 minutes.

and the guy that's talking about jf-17 block 2... i did comparison of the current jf-17 and why is everyone talking about block 2 when block 1 hasn't even reached 1 squadron strength? block 2 is at max 5 years away.

the lca will be inducted around 2010-2012 and incase u dont know, there is an rfp for new engines (ej and ge-414), i think ej will win because its smaller and has potential to make lca supercruise without any weapons, and the aesa for lca has been confirmed.

but it is true, only after 2013-2014 will the lca have that engine and the aesa.

 

[Manticore]

first of all, that 'guys' name is body.. antibody
[i should have made my avatar name bond to make this dialogue look cool though]

block 2 is at max 5 years away.[ie 2013-2014]

only after 2013-2014 will the lca have that engine and the aesa.

.
thats what i said that by the time lca is inducted, we would be directly inducting jf17 block2..as the trials prior to induction of jf17are being carried out these days
.
but it can be even earlier, as kamra is producing the first 50 jf17 block 1 at 30/year rate... so our block1 will be completed in one and a half years.. to take care of your flying coffins etc

 

[ironman]

JF-17 WILL be data-linked to AWACS. Why deny JF-17 will be datalinked when you don't deny Su-30, LCA will be data-linked? Even PAC's own website says it will be datalinked and that hasn't been updated in over 5 years. Ex Air Chief said many times datalinks between Erieye and Chinese jets would be set up. Everything you have asked about is kept secret, only monkey figures are released to the public.

Perhaps you are mistaken. I haven't denied anywhere that of data linking JF-17. I just quoted a scenario there and my question was what type of data link will it be using such as CEC, SLP,Link-22/NILE, CDL and TCDL (All US variants).

 

[IceCold]

The reverse is also true. Isn't it? You think the MKI will take on any other aircraft in the world by itself when IAF has Phalcons, UAVs and spy sats in its inventory? If you are bringing in other systems into your argument then you should rename this thread to JF+AWACS+UAVs vs MKI. Else, am afraid its only JF+JF systems+JF subsystems vs MKI+MKI systems+MKI subsystems.

There is a difference. You see MKI will be used to maintain air superiority over Pakistan and plus to hit targets inside Pakistan thanks to its large payload capability however in a hostile environment you will not have the support of an AWAC unless you completely decimate PAF. JF-17 on the other hand will be in a home environment where it will not only have the backing of an AWAC but also SAMs and other ground related equipment( radars, AA guns etc) so you see MKI will be in a tougher position against a JF.

 

[zombie:-)]

There is a difference. You see MKI will be used to maintain air superiority over Pakistan and plus to hit targets inside Pakistan thanks to its large payload capability however in a hostile environment you will not have the support of an AWAC unless you completely decimate PAF. JF-17 on the other hand will be in a home environment where it will not only have the backing of an AWAC but also SAMs and other ground related equipment( radars, AA guns etc) so you see MKI will be in a tougher position against a JF.

WOW ....why do you think AWACS support will be un available ....coz it neds to fly in pak airspace(sorry it was a joke) ..ha the range is more than enough to cover important locations of PAK airspace...take a brake stop speculating ...there will be almost fool proof security for the awacs expect 4-6 MKIs with 12 A2A missiles each giving it cover...and SAMS AND AAA will be taken care of even before entering pak airspace...and lol about home environment ...i think its not much different from what we have all over india

 

[MZUBAIR]

Well,
MKI and JF-17 are of different classes.
But still, I think JF-17 can give tough time to MKI (either any one accepts it or not).

At the moment India have 60 MKI and Pak have 10 + JF-17. With this quantity strength I think PAF cant push back a strong reply, if insurgey.
Pakistan will rely on missels. Which is ofcourse a big threat for India.

PAF always look to counter IAF.
For MKI, PAF would probabily put the combination of JF-17 & J-10B (Will be inducted in 2010-11). Mki wouldnt be a problem with this combination.
This combination will surely block them.

At the moment PAF has only F-16 which can or cannot be dangerous for MKI.

As much as I know If any thing happens at the moment, Pakistan will ask China for help and rely on missel technology.
China's J-11 is really some thing enough for MKI.

But before all these things we have to getrid of ourselves with terrorism.
Getrid of bagger leaders and hope for good & petriotc leaders.
Then improve our economy.
Induct/Buy more JF-17, J-10B, J-XX (Up coming China fighter).
May be we can also get F-35 after 10 years.

But all is important Pakisans sitituation. India is not a big problem. 60 Mki cant do or defend India against strong Billestic and cruise missels.

So dont worry abt India. They will think One thousand and one times before going for an adventure!!!

One thing more, I feel that JF-17 may get valueless aroung 2025-2030 as the technology is progressing very fast. I think PAF should induct almost 150 JF-17 and save money for new era birds.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

sir that means we cant be sure until a conflict involving MKI and JF-17 takes place

I don't think so - and I detest cocky trolls.

"a pilot facing the MKI with indiffenrent and inferior equipment needs immense courage and daredevilry .....first the guy has to face the mki to fight it right"

 

[hj786]

"a pilot facing the MKI with indiffenrent and inferior equipment needs immense courage and daredevilry .....first the guy has to face the mki to fight it right

Zombie PAF pilots faced an MKI in Mirage III and F-7 in that interception a few months back, is that enough daredevilry and courage? Why even bother saying that?

guys plz stop saying the jf-17 will beat mki with help from eryie, remember mki has phalcon to help which is a full fledged aewacs, while eryie is only aewc.
Doesn't matter. Go find out what AEWC and AWACS mean, you will find they mean exactly the same thing. Erieye is a fully fledged AEWC. Phalcon does not cancel out Erieye.
not only that mki has a jammer that is probably an order of magnitude more powerful than the jf-17 (incase u dont know what a jammer is its a device that disrupts radar returns which basically reduces the rcs by a bit).
No, a jammer does not reduce RCS. Jammers are emitters and emitters give away an aeroplane's location. You know the SD-10 has a home-on-jam mode? Whether MKI jams or not, the JF can send missiles to it. That means you have to elaborate on the kind of jammers employed. Jamming power is probably the main advantage of MKI.
and in a real fight the mki has 3x as much endurance as the jf-17, after the long range missiles are fired and miss, than it will be a dogfight, that's when the endurance factor will be huge, at most jf-17 has 5-10 minutes of fuel for dogfighting, while mki has 20-30 minutes.
So now you're making random numbers? When the JF is defending its own airspace, it should have plenty of endurance. Again, backup from force multipliers (tanker aircraft) is a factor.

SAMS AND AAA will be taken care of even before entering pak airspace...

Now who's speculating?

 

[hj786]

Perhaps you are mistaken. I haven't denied anywhere that of data linking JF-17. I just quoted a scenario there and my question was what type of data link will it be using such as CEC, SLP,Link-22/NILE, CDL and TCDL (All US variants).

Sorry my bad, I meant it as a reply to that other guy I was replying to, I made the post in a hurry.

 

[IceCold]

WOW ....why do you think AWACS support will be un available ....coz it neds to fly in pak airspace(sorry it was a joke) ..ha the range is more than enough to cover important locations of PAK airspace...take a brake stop speculating ...there will be almost fool proof security for the awacs expect 4-6 MKIs with 12 A2A missiles each giving it cover...and SAMS AND AAA will be taken care of even before entering pak airspace...and lol about home environment ...i think its not much different from what we have all over india

Ohh comeon i know phalcon has range to see targets inside Pakistan but it has already being discussed and the topic is beaten to death that it will too have to fly cross to the border to fully cover locations inside Pakistan and like i said your MKI when in a hostile territory will be at a severe disadvantage against a smaller JF and vice verse. So you stop speculating and get out of the mki superiority paranoia against JFs.
The rest is all rhetoric from you. Can you explain how will the SAMS and AAA will be taken care off unless you are talking about PAF getting completely decimated, a dream not even your ACM can think about having. I'll suggest you to wake up and smell the coffee though its hot still will be better to bring you back to earth.

 

[godsavetheworld]

Zombie PAF pilots faced an MKI in Mirage III and F-7 in that interception a few months back, is that enough daredevilry and courage? Why even bother saying that?

Cooked up news. Seems like it still creates machoism among naive fanboys in Pakistan. Just like Pranab Mukherjee called Zardari, and used a threatning tone and warned him of war. What utter foolishnes on behalf of Pakistani Media. Little do they know that a foreign minister cannot just call the prsident, and even so from the defence ministry.
So,

Why even bother saying that?

 

[hj786]

Cooked up news. Seems like it still creates machoism among naive fanboys in Pakistan. Just like Pranab Mukherjee called Zardari, and used a threatning tone and warned him of war. What utter foolishnes on behalf of Pakistani Media. Little do they know that a foreign minister cannot just call the prsident, and even so from the defence ministry.

Firstly, I don't think it is cooked up news, InAF admitted to there being a border violation due to "technical malfunction" if I remember right.
Secondly, your fellow Indian poster Zombie started the machoism BS, so don't criticise me alone. Where is his reprimand for being one of the many naive fanboys in India? I'm waiting.

 

[hj786]

Cooked up news. Seems like it still creates machoism among naive fanboys in Pakistan. Just like Pranab Mukherjee called Zardari, and used a threatning tone and warned him of war. What utter foolishnes on behalf of Pakistani Media. Little do they know that a foreign minister cannot just call the prsident, and even so from the defence ministry.

Firstly, I don't think it is cooked up news, InAF admitted to there being a border violation due to "technical malfunction" if I remember right.
Secondly, your fellow Indian poster Zombie started the machoism BS, so don't criticise me alone. Where are your comments concerning the naive fanboys in India?

 

[maverick2009]

In Reply to MZUBAiR.

Your facts are incorrect.

SU30MKI equips 5 SQUADRONS already nos are 100+ check both Wipikedi and any other source you like.

FC20/J10 will enter service in 2014-2015 again check PAF under wipi or sino defencse or even this forum as posted earlier.

As for F16 these are a danger only if and wen USA upgrades them to Block 52 and supplies you with 18 more in 2011...

As for JF17 versis SU30MKI ... JF fan boys keep saying will give flanker "tough tim,e " but wat does that mean and with what ..

The flankers have been studied to death by USA Austrilia & Europeans who all agree its a beast of a war plane. Its easily the best fighter Russia has produced ever. The flanker was designed to beat off USA legacy fighters like F15 F16 & EVEN EARLY F18s . In mock simulations fLANKETRS HAVE COME OUT ON TOP OF all of these.

Now are we saying that the JF17 has something additional that USA F15 F16 don,t have