Su-30MKI & JF-17 Air Fight

[MZUBAIR]

So what you are saying is that As long as the plane has the most advanced radar and avionics. its just as good as another plane.

So why do countries spend so much to make newer and different Jets.
Do they just get bored flying the same plane.
if all we have to do is stick in new avionics to make a plane good. why bother making different ones?

And Just to point out before the JF-17 can engae the MKI on even ground, it has to be a better jet that the J-10B. So unless you are telling me that the JF-17 can be better than a J-10B or F-16, in which case why aren't the Chinese mass producing the JF-17?
and why is the PAF still getting F-16?

Its about time you face reality and admit the only reason you are even buying this plane is because it the only one you can afford.In that You can get a Functioning modern plane and maintain or even increase Fleet numbers in the long run.

Funny typical Indian note !!!!!!!

1st PAF's , JF-17 (Saber II) project was to bring new fighter, to replace old fleet like A5, F7, Mirage.

PAF have more western avonics and jets then India have (wt makes u proudy).
PAF Chinees jets are developed on Russian Technology (Used by India). RD-93 used in JF-17 ......go n study abt RD-93....its another version of Klimov RD-33 turbofan used in Mig29.

PAF getting 26 F-16 Block 52 in 2010 n 2011 total will make 70.

JF-17 is an evaluation jet, its purpose is to get skills of Jet fighter development. Nodoubt its much batter then any of IAF air craft except MKI.

Its agile, its leathel...then any air craft of IAF......it can be loaded with western avoinics. Radar is little weak but still gives long edge with track, target, lock n fire enemy craft within range of 100KM.

There are only two things of JF-17 that needs to be upgrade to match MKI....one AESA radar and other heavy thrust engine.......all other qualities of JF qualify for 4.5th generation fighter.

So batter 4 u to stop typical Indian approach to defame PAK or PAK efforts.
JF-17 is a descent succefull effort. So plz respect it......atleast its in the air but we are still waiting for completion of LCA, which is already begging for foreign support.

 

[wangrong]

Meaningless

JF17/FC1 light plane
su30MKI heavy plane

 

[desiman]

You don't know a single thing about J-10B except what it looks like, so your claim proves you're typing trash.


If that helps you sleep better, keep believing that. The reality is that you can't accept the mki is still just an upgraded flanker and the JF-17 was developed to be capable of defeating it.

The JF-17 has tactical data-links to interface with other platforms such as AWACS aircraft, so it would always be aware of an opposing aircraft's position. The radar warning receiver systems would also help here. It has BVR AAMs and a radar with around 100 km range against even fairly small targets - which the mki isn't. For close range combat it will have 5th generation short range missiles with TVC and infra-red imaging seekers, capable of manoeuvring at around 50g, which the mki can't. These missiles will be slaved to a helmet-mounted sights/display system, and the mki is not invisible so JF-17 pilots can see it and designate it for their missiles. It has a missile approach warning system which is integrated with not only UV/IR sensors giving 360 degree coverage, but also the radar warning receiver and electronic warfare systems (radar jammer housed in the rectangular fairing at the tip of the vertical tail fin). The mki's missiles are also not invisible to UV/IR sensors, unless they don't have rocket motors. According to a Chinese article, the onboard radar jammer is capable of focusing all its jamming power in any direction. There are sources for all of this.

How about you quit trolling and face reality yourself?

Yes JF-17 is the best aircraft ever made in the world and it can even beat the F-22 in many scenario’s. The MKI is useless and its stupid why almost every other credible source rates it among the 5 best aircrafts in the world. Even with way superior avionics, TVC and officially confirmed 4.5 generation aircraft, The MKI wont be able to do much in front of a JF-17 which is cheap alternative for countries who cannot afford an actual modern generation aircraft. So that settles it that the JF-17 is way better than the MKI so now every JF-17 fanboy can rest in peace because they dont want to listen to logical arguments anyways.

 

[beckham]

Meaningless

JF17/FC1 light plane
su30MKI heavy plane

Yaa, I think we should stop comparing peanut with coconut !

 

[MZUBAIR]

So what you are saying is that As long as the plane has the most advanced radar and avionics. its just as good as another plane.

So why do countries spend so much to make newer and different Jets.
Do they just get bored flying the same plane.
if all we have to do is stick in new avionics to make a plane good. why bother making different ones?

And Just to point out before the JF-17 can engae the MKI on even ground, it has to be a better jet that the J-10B. So unless you are telling me that the JF-17 can be better than a J-10B or F-16, in which case why aren't the Chinese mass producing the JF-17?
and why is the PAF still getting F-16?

Its about time you face reality and admit the only reason you are even buying this plane is because it the only one you can afford.In that You can get a Functioning modern plane and maintain or even increase Fleet numbers in the long run.

Funny typical Indian note !!!!!!!

1st PAF's , JF-17 (Saber II) project was to bring new fighter, to replace old fleet like A5, F7, Mirage.

PAF have more western avonics and jets then India have (wt makes u proudy).
PAF Chinees jets are developed on Russian Technology (Used by India). RD-93 used in JF-17 ......go n study abt RD-93....its another version of Klimov RD-33 turbofan used in Mig29.

PAF getting 26 F-16 Block 52 in 2010 n 2011 total will make 70.

JF-17 is an evaluation jet, its purpose is to get skills of Jet fighter development. Nodoubt its much batter then any of IAF air craft except MKI.

Its agile, its leathel...then any air craft of IAF......it can be load with western avoinics. Radar is little weak but still gives long edge with track, target, lock n fire enemy craft within range of 100KM.

There are only two things of JF-17 that needs to be upgrade to match MKI....one AESA radar and other heavy thrust engine.......all other qualities of JF qualify for 4.5th generation fighter.

So batter 4 u to stop typical Indian approach to defame PAK or PAK efforts.
JF-17 is a descent succefull effort. So plz respect it......atleast its in the air but we are still waiting for completion of LCA, which is already begging for foreign support.

 

[desiman]

Funny typical Indian note !!!!!!!

1st PAF's , JF-17 (Saber II) project was to bring new fighter, to replace old fleet like A5, F7, Mirage.

PAF have more western avonics and jets then India have (wt makes u proudy).
PAF Chinees jets are developed on Russian Technology (Used by India). RD-93 used in JF-17 ......go n study abt RD-93....its another version of Klimov RD-33 turbofan used in Mig29.

PAF getting 26 F-16 Block 52 in 2010 n 2011 total will make 70.

JF-17 is an evaluation jet, its purpose is to get skills of Jet fighter development. Nodoubt its much batter then any of IAF air craft except MKI.

Its agile, its leathel...then any air craft of IAF......it can be loaded with western avoinics. Radar is little weak but still gives long edge with track, target, lock n fire enemy craft within range of 100KM.

There are only two things of JF-17 that needs to be upgrade to match MKI....one AESA radar and other heavy thrust engine.......all other qualities of JF qualify for 4.5th generation fighter.

So batter 4 u to stop typical Indian approach to defame PAK or PAK efforts.
JF-17 is a descent succefull effort. So plz respect it......atleast its in the air but we are still waiting for completion of LCA, which is already begging for foreign support.

MZUBAIR please prove with credible sources every argument you have made. How is the JF-17 superior to every other aircraft in the IAF ? is it even better than the MIG-29, Mirage 2000, let alone the bvr equipped bison. Please dont talk about the LCA when you have no idea what’s its specifications are. If you actually go and read the technical details on the LCA, i am sure you will understand why it is officially an 4.5 generation aircraft and is truly magnificent aircraft. I hate it when JF-17 fanboys totally disregard the LCA because it is delayed. You have to understand that an aircraft of the standard of the LCA takes time and unlike the JF-17 cannot be developed in 2 years and put into service the next year. Please read about the LCA from neutral sources and then comment on it. India uses more and more of Israeli Tech rather than Western tech and i hope you know the credibility of Israeli tech. If you want more technical details on anything please let me know. I am not defaming the JF-17, which is an amazing achievement of the PAF, but please don’t go around comparing it to every other aircraft in the world lol The basic fact is that the JF-17 is taking the place of the f-7 and mirage 3, and will play an interceptor role for the PAF. it is not made to go and hunt for other aircraft, the paf has the f-16 and in the future the j-10's to do that.

 

[beckham]

Funny typical Indian note !!!!!!!

1st PAF's , JF-17 (Saber II) project was to bring new fighter, to replace old fleet like A5, F7, Mirage.

PAF Chinees jets are developed on Russian Technology (Used by India). RD-93 used in JF-17 ......go n study abt RD-93....its another version of Klimov RD-33 turbofan used in Mig29.

A typical post to avoid embarrassment !

JF-17 is an evaluation jet, its purpose is to get skills of Jet fighter development. Nodoubt its much batter then any of IAF air craft except MKI.

Check out the title of the thread !

Its agile, its leathel...then any air craft of IAF......it can be loaded with western avoinics. Radar is little weak but still gives long edge with track, target, lock n fire enemy craft within range of 100KM.

Nice one !

There are only two things of JF-17 that needs to be upgrade to match MKI....one AESA radar and other heavy thrust engine.......all other qualities of JF qualify for 4.5th generation fighter.

Those 2 are among the things you need ! Just have a look,

http://www.defence.pk/forums/military-aviation/5354-su-30mki-jf-17-air-fight-71.html#post511747


-No one here is trying to defame PAF , such problems arise only when someone tries to compare an inferior fighter to MKI !

 

[MZUBAIR]

MZUBAIR please prove with credible sources every argument you have made.

All resources are available wt specific u want to know .

How is the JF-17 superior to every other aircraft in the IAF ? is it even better than the MIG-29, Mirage 2000, let alone the bvr equipped bison.

Yes, it is.......compare basic specs of Mirage 2K, Mig-29 and JF

Please dont talk about the LCA when you have no idea what’s its specifications are.

No one , even u dont have any idea abt LCA coz the project is already incomplete. U still dont have engine or radar.

If you actually go and read the technical details on the LCA, i am sure you will understand why it is officially an 4.5 generation aircraft and is truly magnificent aircraft.

I know very well abt 4.5th generation

I hate it when JF-17 fanboys totally disregard the LCA because it is delayed.

I m not a fanboy...aviod flaming comments.

The LCA delay was due to India's lack of experience in designing sophisticated fighter aircraft. Taking a leap from 2nd Generation (HAL HF-24 Marut) to 4.5 Generation did proved India a serious obstacle.

now india desperately needed partner devloper to complete the proj ....especially when lookhead moved down ur request.

Still there is engine and radar problem in LCA

So, no one can say abt the specs of LCA coz its undecided.

You have to understand that an aircraft of the standard of the LCA takes time and unlike the JF-17 cannot be developed in 2 years and put into service the next year. Please read about the LCA from neutral sources and then comment on it.

lolz

Plz dont get personal, I m quoting facts.
I know much abt LCA project.

LCA is not 6th or 7th generation fighter that its taking too long.
It took long coz India lacks in expertise. I am not saying that Pak is expert but yes we have learnt alot in Joint Production with China and developed some thing which is in air.

India uses more and more of Israeli Tech rather than Western tech and i hope you know the credibility of Israeli tech.

India has more Russian techs then any other.

If you want more technical details on anything please let me know. I am not defaming the JF-17, which is an amazing achievement of the PAF, but please don’t go around comparing it to every other aircraft in the world lol The basic fact is that the JF-17 is taking the place of the f-7 and mirage 3, and will play an interceptor role for the PAF. it is not made to go and hunt for other aircraft, the paf has the f-16 and in the future the j-10's to do that.

JF-17 is multirole fighter.

I wish if u could post some technical details as per ur sayings. I will appriciade ur knowledge
Visitors on this forum will love to know ur developed Technical details.

 

[arihant]

Meaningless

JF17/FC1 light plane
su30MKI heavy plane

If true, then only useful post of this thread.

 

[MZUBAIR]

A typical post to avoid embarrassment !

Wts embarrassnent.
We have done , we have achieved. We r proud on our work

JF is in air.

Check out the title of the thread !

I know the thread title....n the comments were in reply ....wasnt for u .....

Nice one !



Those 2 are among the things you need ! Just have a look,

http://www.defence.pk/forums/military-aviation/5354-su-30mki-jf-17-air-fight-71.html#post511747


-No one here is trying to defame PAF , such problems arise only when someone tries to compare an inferior fighter to MKI !

I am not comparing with MKI....did I compared specs?

I admited ur reference post, ck out the thanxs col of ur post.

I only discussed JF-17 abilities.....wt u also posted.

 

[beckham]

Radar on JF-17 is not known but members who have the first hand knowledge about the development of JF-17, members like Sir Murad have stated that the radar on JF-17 is not Chinese and certainly not KLJ-7

Found it !

The JF-17s in service with the PAF are fitted with an Italian Grifo S-7 multi-track, multi-mode, pulse Doppler radar radar. The radar has 25 working modes and a non-break-down time of 200 hours, and is capable of “look-down, shoot-down”, as well as for ground strike abilities. Alternatively, the aircraft can be fitted with the Thales RC400, GEC Marconi Blue Hawk, Russian Phazotron Zemchug/Kopyo, and Chinese indigenous KLJ-7 developed by Nanjing Research Institute of Electronics Technology (NRIET).

 

[beckham]

Wts embarrassnent.
We have done , we have achieved. We r proud on our work

JF is in air.

I know the thread title....n the comments were in reply ....wasnt for u .....


I am not comparing with MKI....did I compared specs?

I admited ur reference post, ck out the thanxs col of ur post.

I only discussed JF-17 abilities.....wt u also posted.

Sorry MZUBAIR , I was just replying to your posts !

we are cool !

 

[Storm Force]

If an Su30 mki CAN TRACK a JF17 at 200km away.

Engage 4 targets at the same time

Carry up to 12 BVR/WVR missles

Attack at extreme angles due to canards/TVC

Climb twice as fast as a JF17 (CHECK ABOVE POST BEKHAM)

How does a JF17 thunder fight with a radar that tracks at Half the distance and only carries half as many weapons over half the distance and half the the top speed. ??????????/

(In the 2 pictures posted MKI looks like a mid 4th gen fighter in camprison Thunder looks dated design)

NB it only looks though they maybe deceiving

 

[Storm Force]

One other very valid point.

Whislt IAF has 6 oprational sqds of over 100+ mki already in service PAF is stil battling with 8 prototypes to pass Intial operational clearance.

MKI as already flown in top western battle training grounds in USA UK and in India against the best fighters in the world.

The MKI which itself is the most evovled/modern flanker ever built in service is already being readied for 5th generation MLU with a new AESA radar and new electronic smart skin concept which beckham eluded too.

The 2 projects are 8 years apart in time scale OF INDUCTION and MKI is alreadying adding 5TH GENERATION PAK FA technology soon.

The tech level is a generation apart

India involvement in the Russian FGFA PAK FA is already benefitting the IAF

 

[PakShaheen79]

27 Pages and still going.... Oh lord plz send someone to tell both Indians and Pakistanis here that they are comparing apples to oranges.