Su-30MKI & JF-17 Air Fight

[Storm Force]

Re Pak Shaheens comments re MKI upgrade potential.

Mki is and will remain 4th generation. But already the Russians/ indians are using PAK FA technology to MLU the MKI to neat 4++ technology.

Ibris Aesa radar which will fit IAF PAKFA will also be used on future mki from 2011.

PAK FA standard BVR will be the ramjet R77 this will also be carried by mki.

Finally the new smartskin up grade is jammers/ electronics which will also house the PAK FA.

The mki is benefitting hughly from the 5th generation fighter programme..

The question i have is how will PAF JF17 survive and be stil worthwhile in a arena that includes an upgraded smartskin/aesa equipped mki & 5th generation internal weapons bay pak fa which paf will face by 2020.

Just a thought The Thunder is yet to acheive IOC let alone FOC. The requirement to have 150-200 Thunders is $billions of dollars and 5-7 years away from reality.

In contrast IAF already have inducted 6 sqds of mki since 2004 and are ready to witness the prototype flight of the indo russian FGFA 5gen fighter in Nov/dec 2009

 

[Young-khan]

Re Pak Shaheens comments re MKI upgrade potential.


The question i have is how will PAF JF17 survive and be stil worthwhile in a arena that includes an upgraded smartskin/aesa equipped mki & 5th generation internal weapons bay pak fa which paf will face by 2020.

Just a thought The Thunder is yet to acheive IOC let alone FOC. The requirement to have 150-200 Thunders is $billions of dollars and 5-7 years away from reality.

In contrast IAF already have inducted 6 sqds of mki since 2004 and are ready to witness the prototype flight of the indo russian FGFA 5gen fighter in Nov/dec 2009

Well there are many people out there including me at times feel that jf17 thunder has arrived may be 5 years or so too late.

However if we look at long term then i feel that the thunder is late but it does provide us with experience of fighter jets, assembly and hopefully full scale manufacture.

In this sense the thunder is a good thing for pakistan, i agree that already the mki have an edge and with upgrades that will further widen the gap in terms of quality. But we can not look at it this way as we can gradually raise the standards of the thunder and hopefully this will lead to aquring technology to manufacture the j10, as we will have good experience by then.

People are expecting too muh from thunder, we have no solid facts and first squadron wont be up in air till end of 2009, so lets wait and see what happens.

 

[Storm Force]

Young Khan.

Re the Thunder being too late..

I think the Thunder is stil a great way to replace the F7 & MIRAGES very cost effectively.

Theres no way Pakistan as a country can replace 300+ mirages/F7 with
$50m+ dollar planes like gripen or even F16/60 or Rafael..

So 200+ Thunder @ $15m each is a very smart programme.

But it does seem the indians are beginning to pull away from PAF in technology via their huge military budgets today and in the next decade.

Its not just mki/or FGFA russian link up but the other programmes like s300 sams spyder sams, green pine radars phalcon awacs and aerostat radars.

The israelis are playing a big part on this build up of expensive western technology

 

[Young-khan]

I fully agree that India has advanced well with help of israel, this is nothing new the participation of israel in indian upgrades and weapon procurements.

I srael feel threatened by pakistan, yet pakistan has never showed any hostile act towards it, thus they help india keep an edge on pakistan in defence matters.

India has surpassed us due to their large economy and defence budget, however we have always worked against all odds stacked against us and have not come out doing too badly.

The only way for pakistan forward is to have indigenous arms programmes which in return are cheaper and much experience can be gained for future needs.

I think pakistan should have atleast 100 j10 along with thunders and a very dedicated network of sam and this brings down the indian numerical and technological advantage.

 

[PakShaheen79]

I think best option for Pakistan in current situation can be
1)-Complete replacement of old jets ASAP
2)-Keep on upgrading Thunders
3)-Try to seek additional F-16s from where ever they are available..with MLU
4)-Ask China to allow PAF to be part of JXX or any similar projects in future..

Relying on West or US ... is NOT an option for us.

 

[rajeev]

I think Pak should keep on saving money until India's MRCA is known. That way, they would know what plane they have to face more often in case of the war and the relevant plane and config. Rather than shooting in the dark, wont that be a good scenario?

 

[AVIAN]

I said except radar and engine. Next generation avionics?? What is these?

Oh you already said that MKI will get next generation radar and still asking what Next generation avionics?

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

i think that after the new F16s arrive in Pakistan, we should seriously consider only looking at Chinese aircrafts from then onwards.

Chinese are getting great experience in this field. And we always give them very specific instructions and requirements which they manage to fulfill (such as PNS Zulfiqar, Z-9s, J-7Ps etc.).

J-11 flanker is what we should highly highly highly consider.

 

[MZUBAIR]

i think that after the new F16s arrive in Pakistan, we should seriously consider only looking at Chinese aircrafts from then onwards.

Chinese are getting great experience in this field. And we always give them very specific instructions and requirements which they manage to fulfill (such as PNS Zulfiqar, Z-9s, J-7Ps etc.).

J-11 flanker is what we should highly highly highly consider.

I doubt we will ever get F-16.
Gov made us dead

 

[Young-khan]

I doubt we will ever get F-16.
Gov made us dead

Why would we need f16, i understand we have great experience with them and they are fabilous but they come with conditions and chain around your ankle.

Pakistan needs to move away from total reliance and expand its own defence industry. Joint project are the way forward to gain knowledge and experience and use that as a platform to progress on from.

Jf17 night might not be on pars with mki etc but its the valuable experience gained through designing and assembling and a modern jet. Its a project that can be maintained by our low defence budget and result is a very modern and decent fighter.

 

[IBRIS]

Re Pak Shaheens comments re MKI upgrade potential.

Mki is and will remain 4th generation. But already the Russians/ indians are using PAK FA technology to MLU the MKI to neat 4++ technology.

Ibris Aesa radar which will fit IAF PAKFA will also be used on future mki from 2011.

N011M Bars radar installed in the larger Su-30MKI fighter aircraft it already has in service, while the Su-30MKI is 4.5 generation aircraft, modified from the last fourth generation aircraft

IAF with its phalcon AWACS and SU-30MKI already is superior in the skies above Tibet & Pakistan. Its also upgrading the MKI's to Ibris AESA radar in end of 2009 which is to be co-developed.

 

[PakShaheen79]

Oh you already said that MKI will get next generation radar and still asking what Next generation avionics?

Avionics includes a lot more than a radar.

 

[ice_man]

look all the JF currently needs is a good avionics suit! once we have that we can atleast hope for a 50 50 chance of the JF going up against the MKI but in current state JF with its KLJ-7 radar is no match for the superior MKI......we need a radar of the rafale or the eurofighter atleast!!!

 

[gogbot]

look all the JF currently needs is a good avionics suit! once we have that we can atleast hope for a 50 50 chance of the JF going up against the MKI but in current state JF with its KLJ-7 radar is no match for the superior MKI......we need a radar of the rafale or the eurofighter atleast!!!

So what you are saying is that As long as the plane has the most advanced radar and avionics. its just as good as another plane.

So why do countries spend so much to make newer and different Jets.
Do they just get bored flying the same plane.
if all we have to do is stick in new avionics to make a plane good. why bother making different ones?

And Just to point out before the JF-17 can engae the MKI on even ground, it has to be a better jet that the J-10B. So unless you are telling me that the JF-17 can be better than a J-10B or F-16, in which case why aren't the Chinese mass producing the JF-17?
and why is the PAF still getting F-16?

Its about time you face reality and admit the only reason you are even buying this plane is because it the only one you can afford.
In that You can get a Functioning modern plane and maintain or even increase Fleet numbers in the long run.

 

[Storm Force]

JF17 versis SU30MKI 50/50 CHANCE.

next you people will say F7 just needs a new radar to match mki