Strike package of PAF F-16 - Fear Factor

[rockstar08]

Hi,

It could be a " stairstep " type of sabotage----. A glitch here---a glitch there at the critical moment---which mean that there is no way of telling the base what happened---before it gets into a full DENIAL mode.

About the nuclear issue---they will be neutralized----for the last 14 years---that has been on the top of the list for the U S---there are " sniffer " satelites " on top of pakistan all the time---they sniff for any signs of radiation---also any place and anything that could remotely seem to look like a launch pad or launch base.

That is why I have written many a times---build up conventional force so much that you can reach south india and do some major destruction.

That is the only saving grace for pakistan---you kids need to thinks with your brains----you kids need to think about the lives of your children----you need to give them a place to live and cherish---.

You don't want to leave behind a nuc wasteland and incinerated children. That is why I keep saying---pakistan's salvation lies in conventional strength---.

Pakistan needs to spend about 3-4 billion dollars for its HEAVY air assets.

Pakistanis need to get out of the mindset of survival thru defensive doctrine---. It has never happened before---it will never happen again.

By the way---do you have children---?


The U S is not worried about its technology falling into the wrong hands---it will have its own people on the ground to collect the broken pieces----.

Sir, First, No i don't have kids ... unmarried

now, you are mixing a full scale war with Indian and , was with US .. little malfunctions can cause damage in fighters but , take this example, imagine you are driving your FX car, from years .. and than you take it to a " Anari " mechanic , who do some damage into your car, just the way you start driving , you will know what is wrong with your car ..

now if a Pilot , flying a machine for 500-1000+ hours , how can you expect him not to catch any glitches in his machine ?
yeah US got Satellites over the world , and they know every location of our nuke sites , than what is stopping them to them off ?

Stop presenting US as a boggy man, that they are and capable of doing anything they want , there are factors involved, a rouge US president cant go to WAR with any country until he gets congress approval , you know better than me right ?

after OBL raid, they ( US ) got chance but they still didn't do anything, why ? not because they are scared of Pakistan but they can't risk to attack a Nuclear armed state and destabilize it so the remaining Arms will fall into Terrorist hands , and even if that happen the world will blame US not Pakistan, cause we have seen how US cause the creation of Organization like ISIS by attacking and destroying countries like Iraq ..

now for Pakistan's conventional power, no matter how much we make our self stronger , we will still remain behind in Quantity if you compare to India , Pakistan and India's geographic are different , India is roughly 10-12 times bigger than us , they got man power , money , so between Pakistan and India things will always remain that one will always remain defensive . Pakistan if we can get 2 sqs of F-22 Raptors still we can't be on offensive mode against India , because we are smaller nation, who is capable of defending itself. and that's enough for us for now ..

I am not against Pakistan increasing their Conventional capabilities , but i doubt that there will be some Kill switches or any other systems involved , reason i have already explained .

A former USAF pilot who was a member here with immense experience had already debunked the "kill switch" theory along with active PAF personell. There are NO kill switches. Now you are free to choose the opinion between those that live and breath the job to those that would otherwise have never even touched a combat aircraft.

it does not make any sense to me , that US to put such mysterious sabotage devices , cause in case of any war ( which is not against US ) , if US make our F-16's useless, than no countries will buy any arms from US ..
but the idea of Kill switch is kinda awesome for a Conspiracy , i'd say after the HAARP , it can be most selling Conspiracy in Pakistan .

''Saffron Bandit, splash one''.

what does this mean ??

 

[litman]

I heard the same version of the incident, That F-16s had locks on all 3 Su's and were waiting for orders. But around those times there was too much speculation.

all stories and it seems no one here knows the truth. i have heard that those were mirage 2000s not su 30. if they were su 30 why they didn't lock the F-16. they have superior radar then non upgraded F-16 A/B which we had at that time.

 

[MastanKhan]

Sir, First, No i don't have kids ... unmarried

now, you are mixing a full scale war with Indian and , was with US .. little malfunctions can cause damage in fighters but , take this example, imagine you are driving your FX car, from years .. and than you take it to a " Anari " mechanic , who do some damage into your car, just the way you start driving , you will know what is wrong with your car ..

now if a Pilot , flying a machine for 500-1000+ hours , how can you expect him not to catch any glitches in his machine ?
yeah US got Satellites over the world , and they know every location of our nuke sites , than what is stopping them to them off ?

Stop presenting US as a boggy man, that they are and capable of doing anything they want , there are factors involved, a rouge US president cant go to WAR with any country until he gets congress approval , you know better than me right ?

after OBL raid, they ( US ) got chance but they still didn't do anything, why ? not because they are scared of Pakistan but they can't risk to attack a Nuclear armed state and destabilize it so the remaining Arms will fall into Terrorist hands , and even if that happen the world will blame US not Pakistan, cause we have seen how US cause the creation of Organization like ISIS by attacking and destroying countries like Iraq ..

now for Pakistan's conventional power, no matter how much we make our self stronger , we will still remain behind in Quantity if you compare to India , Pakistan and India's geographic are different , India is roughly 10-12 times bigger than us , they got man power , money , so between Pakistan and India things will always remain that one will always remain defensive . Pakistan if we can get 2 sqs of F-22 Raptors still we can't be on offensive mode against India , because we are smaller nation, who is capable of defending itself. and that's enough for us for now ..

I am not against Pakistan increasing their Conventional capabilities , but i doubt that there will be some Kill switches or any other systems involved , reason i have already explained .



it does not make any sense to me , that US to put such mysterious sabotage devices , cause in case of any war ( which is not against US ) , if US make our F-16's useless, than no countries will buy any arms from US ..
but the idea of Kill switch is kinda awesome for a Conspiracy , i'd say after the HAARP , it can be most selling Conspiracy in Pakistan .



what does this mean ??

Hi,

Get over it my man-----all aircraft from the US have ' kill switches ' in them----. That is the standard part of the equipment on orders of homeland security---.

At a critical time means that it would be time for no return. As for the american pilot not knowing about it---what is the big deal---does he have to know for one to believe it. Is he the only and ultimate authority on it----.

Not really----remember one thing---where there is smoke---there is fire----.

Where you have data link----your operation can be controlled.

Now when you have kids---and you are holding your babies in your arms---this talk of nuc warfare would diminish from you. Then you will think like like---how can I leave a better world for them---. They don't deserve this mess.

As for the F16's---forget the kill switches for the moment----and listen to what the U S parliamentarians are saying---. There is an open threat of sanctions on the F16's---. Deal with that first.

 

[rockstar08]

Hi,

Get over it my man-----all aircraft from the US have ' kill switches ' in them----. That is the standard part of the equipment on orders of homeland security---.

At a critical time means that it would be time for no return. As for the american pilot not knowing about it---what is the big deal---does he have to know for one to believe it. Is he the only and ultimate authority on it----.

Not really----remember one thing---where there is smoke---there is fire----.

Where you have data link----your operation can be controlled.

Now when you have kids---and you are holding your babies in your arms---this talk of nuc warfare would diminish from you. Then you will think like like---how can I leave a better world for them---. They don't deserve this mess.

As for the F16's---forget the kill switches for the moment----and listen to what the U S parliamentarians are saying---. There is an open threat of sanctions on the F16's---. Deal with that first.

Sir i still want a better future for kids, who are not mine but still .. i don't just want better future for my kids but all kids, cause they don't deserve to suffer from the things we messed up .

you can believe in the kill switch sir, but the idea seems a bit foggy to me, a mind see what it chose to see .

if you go by logic, that when there is smoke there is fire, than all Conspiracy theories can be proven true , including 9/11 been inside job , and if you believe in that,why you let such Govt get away with 3000 innocents lives of your countrymen ?

kill switches are there or not, but to me its more of a negative possibility than some positive .

 

[MastanKhan]

Sir i still want a better future for kids, who are not mine but still .. i don't just want better future for my kids but all kids, cause they don't deserve to suffer from the things we messed up .

you can believe in the kill switch sir, but the idea seems a bit foggy to me, a mind see what it chose to see .

if you go by logic, that when there is smoke there is fire, than all Conspiracy theories can be proven true , including 9/11 been inside job , and if you believe in that,why you let such Govt get away with 3000 innocents lives of your countrymen ?

kill switches are there or not, but to me its more of a negative possibility than some positive .

Hi,

There are rumors to deceive---then there are rumors to sabotage.

Technically we know that if has a data link---it can be manipulated. If a hacker can manipulate a system and enter it---take control and do whatsoever---why can the state not do the same thing on its own equipment---that by itself is a massive weapon in flight.

 

[Plotinium]

Aoa,
sorry to jump in, but if the data link of f16 can be hacked by US then it can be hacked by any country (provided they have the human + technical resource), russian would be very happy to hack the f16's of US. The conspiracy of kill switches in f16 by data link is a two way road, it has positives but it can give an ace in the hole for the russian. I personally dont think that they will put kill switches through data link, must be something else(p.s dont know much about defence equipment but if US can hack f16 to sabotage them, it will also open the way for someone else to hack it.).

 

[MastanKhan]

Aoa,
sorry to jump in, but if the data link of f16 can be hacked by US then it can be hacked by any country (provided they have the human + technical resource), russian would be very happy to hack the f16's of US. The conspiracy of kill switches in f16 by data link is a two way road, it has positives but it can give an ace in the hole for the russian. I personally dont think that they will put kill switches through data link, must be something else(p.s dont know much about defence equipment but if US can hack f16 to sabotage them, it will also open the way for someone else to hack it.).

Hi,

US is not hacking into its system---it is simply using a gateway---.

An F22 can launch a missile on a B2 bomber or a B52 bomber or any other aircraft----like it is his personal arsenal---.

So---if it can do that---there many other things that can be controlled.

 

[M.AsfandYar]

all stories and it seems no one here knows the truth. i have heard that those were mirage 2000s not su 30. if they were su 30 why they didn't lock the F-16. they have superior radar then non upgraded F-16 A/B which we had at that time.

nope they were su-30s. And its a childish question to ask on defence forum. dnt u think?

 

[SQ8]

The incident was also reported in the press, albeit Zardari government tried to downplay the violation but PAF was having none of it, the HUD footage was shared with US General Petraeus, (CENTCOM Commander) he was also informed that such misadventure by IAF will not be tolerated as ordered have been issued for PAF to launch an immediate counter attack. It also transpired that the IAF was unaware of PAF interceptors on it's tail until later, the PAF pilots were just waiting for orders, had the clearance been issued the next message would have been ''Saffron Bandit, splash one''.

Indian Fighter Planes Violate Pakistani Airspace

By M. Hussain

The Indian Air Force (IAF) has violated Pakistani airspace and were intercepted by the Pakistan Air Force. The incidence took place on the 13th of December, at midnight. The military establishment in Pakistan is considering this to be a serious violation and PAF air bases are on full alert.

2 Indian Su-30 MkI ingressed in the Lahore sector, Pakistan's second most important city after Karachi. 3 Indian Mirage 2000H ingressed in the Kashmir sector. The Su-30 Mki "FLANKER" were intercepted by 3 F-16s and 3 F-7 combat aircraft from the Pakistan Air Force, while the Mirage 2000Hs were intercepted by 2 F-16s and 2 Mirages The intercepts were made within 4 miles of entering Pakistani territory, and the intruders were escorted out of Pakistani airspace. According to the PAF, the Indian aircraft were fully armed.

The Indians are in violation of agreements to not send combat aircraft within 10 km of their own boundaries. The simultaneous nature of the intrusion, in the middle of the night, being fully armed clearly indicates it was no mistake, and is replicative of Israeli tactics with Syria.

The Indian Air Force may use this opportunity to gather EW and radar signatures as well as measure the intercept response time and location. They may seek out information on new assets added by the Pakistani side, such as the TPS-77 radars. Both the Su-30 Mk I and the Mirage-2000Hs are equiped with EW equipment that could be used for such a purpose.


The Information Minister, Sherry Rehman, claimed that it was a mistake from the Indian side, which directly contradicts the PAF, and one may add, logic. In a joint press conference with the British PM, Zardari echoed this response and said Indian violation was a technical fault of IAF. While PAF denies that it was fault.

Grande Strategy (Edited)

UPDATE | Dec 14, 2008, AM: TROOPS ON THE MOVE?

A number of people travelling between Lahore and Rawalpindi over the past two days have reported that a heavy redeployment by the army was under way.

“Long convoys of military trucks are heading towards Lahore from Jehlum,” Jawad Khan, a motorist, told Dawn.

UPDATE | Dec 14, 2008, PM: Aircraft Descriptions:

Lahore: 2x Indian Air Force Su-30 (armed) – intercepted and escorted out by 3x Pakistan Air Force F-16s and 3x F-7s
Muzaffarabad: 3x Indian Air Force Mirage 2000 (armed) – intercepted and escorted out by 2x Pakistan Air Force F-16s and 2x F-7s.

UPDATE | Dec 14, 2008, PM: Emergency declared at Shorkot, Sarghoda airbases

SARGHODA: Emergency has been declared at Shorkot and Sarghoda airbases on Sunday after India violated Pakistan air spaces twice on Saturday by sending its fire jets.

According to sources, Indian Air Force sent its fighter jets into Pakistan air spaces on Saturday in Lahore and Kashmir areas which were forced to go back by Pakistani fighter jets.

Not sure about the bold bits since my horse is pretty adamant that they were given clear warnings over the guard channels but they went in a diagonal line some 50 nm inside Pakistan but always within 10-20NM within the border.

it does not make any sense to me , that US to put such mysterious sabotage devices , cause in case of any war ( which is not against US ) , if US make our F-16's useless, than no countries will buy any arms from US ..
but the idea of Kill switch is kinda awesome for a Conspiracy , i'd say after the HAARP , it can be most selling Conspiracy in Pakistan

The only "conspiracy" is that the US has put anti-tamper seals on more sophisticated stuff like the AIDEWS system and Sniper pods because they dont want anyone other(read Chinese) having access to the tech except their own qualified or cleared staff in servicing the equipment.

That being said, the American DO monitor Jacobabad and keep a strict eye on who comes and goes next to the equipment. That is to ensure that whatever is on the 18 jets we have (and the 8 More we are getting) stays out of the hands of the Chinese because behind the veil there is a lot more sophistication than is revealed.

 

[MastanKhan]

Aoa,
sorry to jump in, but if the data link of f16 can be hacked by US then it can be hacked by any country (provided they have the human + technical resource), russian would be very happy to hack the f16's of US. The conspiracy of kill switches in f16 by data link is a two way road, it has positives but it can give an ace in the hole for the russian. I personally dont think that they will put kill switches through data link, must be something else(p.s dont know much about defence equipment but if US can hack f16 to sabotage them, it will also open the way for someone else to hack it.).

Hi,

Don't you remember that the iranians hacked in the Beast of Kandhar---and made it land in iran---.

 

[M.AsfandYar]

Why you think its a childish quiestion ? If you havent got an answer at least be a little civilised and respectful

Because u asked y didnt Su-30 lock on Our F-16s just becoz they had superior radar maybe?

 

[Windjammer]

Not sure about the bold bits since my horse is pretty adamant that they were given clear warnings over the guard channels but they went in a diagonal line some 50 nm inside Pakistan but always within 10-20NM within the border.

Indeed they were given a clear warning but what my source told me is that initially the Indians weren't aware as PAF tailed them and waited for instructions.

 

[Plotinium]

Hi,

Don't you remember that the iranians hacked in the Beast of Kandhar---and made it land in iran---.

Sir,
Like any other UAV, the beast of kandahar is operated through electromagnetic waves, the connection is of read and write type to wirelessely control the UAV, which if the connection is caught and decrypted, then the UAV can be manipulated, the way you want it to.
But in the case of F16, they are operated manually, the connection doesnt need to be of 'write' type, it also doesnt need to be of 'read' kind, but if it is of read kind, and gives out the gps location of the f16 to americans, then potentially the indians can also read that location of the f16, we can also read it, which will create problems for us to buy more of f16.
Sir, in the end, if the connection is blocked for 'write' wirelessly, then no hacker can open it, but if they have potentially left any backdoor open for themselves, to be used in war condition then it can be used by anyone, by anyone i also met we can also hack it and dont let anyone enter it.
(p.s by f16 here i met the pakistani f16, the americans f16 may have different source code on read and write wirelessly.)

 

[litman]

nope they were su-30s. And its a childish question to ask on defence forum. dnt u think?

i am not an aviation expert. no one can be an expert in everything. many sources say that indians used mirage 2000s. when indian mig 29s locked the F-16s during kargil then why Su 30 didnt lock on the F-16s this time?

 

[M.AsfandYar]

Indeed they were given a clear warning but what my source told me is that initially the Indians weren't aware as PAF tailed them and waited for instructions.

Now

i am not an aviation expert. no one can be an expert in everything. many sources say that indians used mirage 2000s. when indian mig 29s locked the F-16s during kargil then why Su 30 didnt lock on the F-16s this time?

Again this is the first time i m hearing any one saying those were Mirages and u arent providing any sources. And on the second Part Despite having excellent track record against Migs F-16 were locked by those Migs + Those Migs were BVR equipped ours weren’t. So applying your Logic here Why cant F-16s lock on Su's, the better plane, if Migs can lock on F-16s,the Better plane?