It's one thing to remember history; it's quite another to hold an "open wound".
Unless closed, all wounds remain open. Nothing has changed for me to close those wounds. It is not a choice I made.
They have healed though, just the scars remain, I hold no grudges or hatreds against anyone.
But we remember the kind of barbarians there are in the world like the Chinese will never forget the Mongols or Japanese in WW-2 or the Central Asians and Arabs will never forget the Mongols or the crusaders.
Even you remember quite a long history of Israel that you narrated here and used that to justify why you want them to be forced out!
That's irrelevant. Nobody is excusing anything that happened centuries ago. We have all moved on. I suggest you do the same.
This ithe crucial part: you are still waiting for "the Islamic world" to apologize. You want Turkey to apologize? Saudi Arabia?
I will let the ummah figure that out!
BTW, you have not totally lost that connection, have you? Are not the worst of those bigots the biggest of your heroes? Does that not show that there are still people right inside Pakistan (and in powerful positions) who would like to repeat to others what happened to their own ancestors at the hands of those barbarians?
Basically, you are holding modern Muslims, including Indian Muslims, hostage until someone apologizes to close your "wound".
Nothing of that sort. I just want to make sure that history is not repeated again.
And what barbarity we could be dealing with if we falter again.
Exactly. So a majority of Indians still hold Muslims, including Indian Muslims, hostage to the partition saga.
You guys really need to move on.
No one is holding anyone hostage. And moving on is the last advice we need from people who want to go back to the 7th century desert again for that supposed
utopia!
They still have the dreams of world domination and winning back all the lost "Islamic lands". India and Spain top that list. No?
That poll reflects the results not for Indian Muslims. It is a result of continued terror from Pakistan for decades.
Perhaps in a relevant thread. Not this one.
Sure. My purpose was mainly to counter your own poll.
Only Islamophobes use words like infidel, kaffir, ummah, dhimmi, etc. Maybe you have been reading too much of their literature.
Is it? Where did all these terms originate? Who used them first and for centuries and even now?
What is wrong with these terms now suddenly after all those centuries?
Only because India has 8x the population -- if half a million people die on each side, it will be a smaller percentage within a bigger pool.
And therefore a much smaller crime rate? And not a total ethnic cleansing like you?
It was you who posted the poll numbers, not I.
I replied to another poll from you! It was not related to Indian Muslims.
Is that what they teach you guys in India? Most people know that it was a bloody partition. On both sides.
You said this:
Most of the Hindus left in 1947.
Would you also say that "
Most of the Palestinians left in 1947/48."
Because Israel (and Sudan) are the only two countries currently creating refugee at this scale.
But you don't have any regrets for your past actions!
No, the basic facts have been stated early on; they haven't changed.
Israel's Law of Return and its refusal to let non-Jewish refugees return is the crux of the accusation.
You talked of "discrimination on the basis of religion"!
An Israeli has already replied to the issue of why Israel doesn't allow the return of non-Jewish refugees. I see no need to justify it but I can see why Israel doesn't want to lose its Jewish character.
Anybody who uses words like infidel, kaffir, ummah and dhimmi will be labelled an Islamophobe.
So all your scriptures and Hadhith are Islamophobe? All the policies that were perpetrated by Islamic rulers throughout your history based on these concepts were Islamophobia?
What has changed now to make these terms acceptable?
Anyone who holds today's Muslims hostage to an apology for whatever happened several centuries ago is just looking for an excuse to hate Muslims.
You can help correct the perceptions by denouncing those bigots as villains and barbarians rather than Pakistani and Islamic heroes.
Things may just change for the better if you do that.
No, that's the whole point. When we are discussing apartheid and someone wanders off into crimes by other black countries throughout history, it is a diversion.
You were justifying your hatred for Israel and that is where it came in.
I am not speaking for other Islamic countries, although Morocco, Malaysia, etc. are quite multireligious and multiethnic.
And yes, in some ways, minorities are treated better in Pakistan than they are in the West, especially after 9/11. You will disagree, and I don't want to get into it, but I have lived in Pakistan and the West and I fully stand behind that statement.
I have replied to it already. No repartition, you can check my earlier posts on why I think your sanctimony is wholly undeserved.
Ironic but true.
That is a statement of fact regarding Israel.
We were discussing Islamic countries! And your own?
Is this a good enough standard? Would you be satisfied with just not being herded in a ghetto?
You demand much more from countries that you continuously denounce while defend far worse treatment in your own countries.
We all see it and that is why we find it funny to see the sanctimony from your ilk.
Because I am talking about a current situation that is being perpetrated even as we speak. You are talking about what happened centuries ago. Most people in the subcontinent have moved on. By your logic, all mistreatment of Muslims around the world is justified until you receive your "apology" from some unnamed entity to close your "wound". It's an excuse for perpetually hating Muslims, and everyone can see through it.
You also talked of events 60 years to 100 years old to justify your current position. You can't arbitrarily draw the line where you want to.
The major issue is: what has changed from those barbaric periods? Can the final and perfect be bettered? Can it evolve?
Yes, I know you are itching to launch into another one of your postgs about the evil Muslims.
Not unless you get into another of your sanctimony and I need to challenge it with facts.
Of course. The whole world is crystal clear that Darfur should be resolved and the government held accountable.
OK, and what has your country done about it?
There haven't been any threads on Darfur that I know. I just brought it up just now.
That shows the extent of the concern? Yours and others' who rail so much about Israel!
That's the part under debate. The whole thing was forced onto the Palestinians who had no say in the matter.
It was backroom dealings between the British, French, Americans and Zionists. The Arabs were never involved.
But they did try the force of arms to try and decide the issue!
What would they have done had they come out the victors?
Why expect a different treatment once they lost?
Nonsense. Why would I ever say that Israel can kick Pakistan's as$?
What I said was that Israel saved your as$ in Kargil.
Basically, you are saying that Israel can defeat Pakistan with loose change? Something it can spare while still keeping enough for Arabs?
Sure, that's exactly what the article says. Why not?
Good one! I guess this is an improvement over 'Islamist'
Its not mutually exclusive at all. In most cases, it is just a substitute.
Because then you couldn't use this thread as a springboard to launch into irrelevant anti-Muslim and anti-Pakistan speeches.
That part having been done
, why should I not think that your sanctimonious lecture to India was only because you were jealous that India was benefiting more from this relationship?
Then why do you suppose they are forming this alliance with India? Are you saying the benefit is purely one way? That India contributes nothing to the 'alliance' other than money?
That is what you said.
I think the relations are mutually beneficial, like all such relations.
We have a lot of complimentary strengths and together we both win.
They don't need us for handling Palestinians or Arabs and we don't need them for handling Pakistan.
