Strength of alliance between India-Isreal

[KS]

India and Israel conduct joint training, especially on counter insurgency tactics, which are directly applicable o oppresing Palestinians.

Rubbish - What special tactics are needed to 'oppress' kids and unarmed Palestinians (as you people claim) ?? It just takes a loaded gun to oppress them as you claim.

Israel undergoes specialist training for its fight against Hezbollah and Hamas terrorists.

Leave it, you are just clinging to straws as I could clearly discern from this rubbish allegation.

It's a matter of scale; the Uighurs aren't being exterminated. Their cultural traditions are under attack and I believe Pakistan should work with China to address those concerns peacefully to quell terrorist influences.

You believe (yes in case of China that is the most you can do) - but your nation has not even opened its mouth against the attacks on Uighurs.

And did I hear you say cultural attack??
BBC NEWS | Asia-Pacific | China 'crushing Muslim Uighurs'

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124701252209109027.html

And it so cool to blame the Uighurs for terrorist influences thereby justifying Chinese actions.

Drop it mate,your blatant double standards are there for all to see. Humanitarian principles in case of Palestine, but cold hard National interest in case of Uighurs.

 

[kriish]

BS... India is irking to nuke Pakistan and had negotiated this with US even after september, 11.
India offered that it will bomb Afghnistan on its own expense withits own resources,,,provided US gave them a nuclear bomb or nuke Pakistan by its own.

India knows it cannot handle Pakistani retaliation alone.. hence trying to pull US and Israel as war adversary against Pakistan.

India is shivering because short time is left for the puppet regime of Pakistan to go.

You better come and support Zardari regime if you want to put your war alliance to use in fulfilling your centuries old dreams of taking revenge of some false historic beliefs.

is this guys is for real or what seriously get a life man don't twist the facts to suit ur argument and we don't need US help to attack pak....... u guys are insignificant no longer a liability end of story

i had a gud impression on u thought that u are a intellect person but this post shattered it.................

 

[Developereo]

The governments necessarily need to be more rational than the gullible people.

Spoken like a true advocate of democracy. Oh wait...

Same as India. And on a much larger scale. So what was your point again?

Turkey's relationship with Israel is complex and has more than a little to do with Arabs' hatred for Turks.

Where did you see that Indian Muslims are against the relationship? You only presumed it and started commenting on their status in India.

Where does it come from except for the need to justify TNT? Don't even bother trying here, it is plain to see.

There's that TNT again. Is that code for something other than dynamite? I don't understand...

All presumptive and hypothetical.

Nothing presumptive about it. We can tell by the tenor of the posts in this very forum. If they are representative of India at large, that says it all about lack of respect for diversity of opinion.

So what is your problem with that? If whole Islamic countries can support Israel, why not an Indian Muslim?

In most Muslim countries, it is the government who befriends Israel, not the people.

Add West Pakistan to the list. Almost complete ethnic cleansing in 1947, much more so than in Israel.

Are you saying the 1947 migration was only one way? That India was blameless?

I thought you were concerned by the plight of Palestinian refugees. Does the concern evaporate if the plight is in an Islamic country?

Certainly, I am concerned. When we are in a thread about India-Lebanon relationship, we can discuss that.

I am not telling anything. It is you who is trying to decide on behalf of the Jews and the Arabs.

First you say all the Arabs want to wipe Israel off the map, now you say I am making it up....

Now the Jews are also living continuously in that land for 100 odd years. Does that count?

Only until they are forced out again; or Arabs are allowed to return to their homes.

Well, I made point pretty clear.

If it makes you sleep better at night...

Nope. It is clear where you are coming from.

Or maybe it's just your hatred of Muslims clouding your judgement. See, I can use that word gratuitously, too.

None of them was forced from outside at the point of a sword. Why would you use this to justify what happened in Iran?

Nobody's justifying whatever happened in Iran. And it is clear you don't know your own history about Buddhism's eradication from ancient India.

Not just the Palestinians. All the Arab world that set out to throw them to the sea.

They are not the David as you make them out to be. They have a tremendous advantage in all kinds of numbers, an advantage of 50-100 times.

Living vicariously through Israel's strength, I see. There's lots of tough guys like that on the internet...

We always helped Arafaat. Even he negotiated with Israel and recognized it. What are you going on about?

By calling Arafat a 'brother in arms', Nelson Mandela equated Israel with apartheid-era South Africa.

Not surprising, really, considering Israel was the principal arms supplier to that apartheid-era government. Birds of a feather...

 

[KS]

Develeporeo :

what are you trying to prove here?? That India's alliance with Israel is unholy ?? Fine for argument sake, let me humour you.Yes it is unholy and is upon the blood of innocent Palestinians to whom we regularly and massively contribute in aid more than you country can ever think of.

But the surprising fact is that the Palestinians don't seem to mind this. So India doesnt mind, the Palestinians dont mind, the Isaelis dont mind. What is then your bother sir ??

But don't forget that nobody missed your double standards about your support to China and your Governments deaf and dumb stand on the plights of the Uighurs.And frankly I am not surprised at that, because these humanitarian principles may be great to advise to somebody but when it comes to one's own national interests all these things usually go for a hike.

 

[Developereo]

BTW, counter insurgency can't oppress Palestinians, only make everyone more secure.

Counter-insurgency is also applicable to fighting Palestinian resistance movement.

Why would you chose a different approach for the Uighurs?

See below.

Like you opened a thread for Indian Muslim's status! These are replies to the specific issues that crop up during a discussion.

These issues 'crop up' only because you bring them up instead of focussing on the topic.

OK, what is the practical solution in your opinion? You describe the problem, now let us see your practical solution.

The same way that Americans and Germans have come to terms with their past and have offered reconciliation with their victims (Native Americans, blacks, Jews), the same thing needs to happen between Jews and Arabs. That means Arab refugees returning to their homes and Jews acknowledging their past deeds. It will happen eventually, since you can't hide the truth for ever, but it's better for it to happen sooner rather than later.

Well, you may not be aware but people can see through the facade.

I can't help it if you see everything through a religious prism.

Israel undergoes specialist training for its fight against Hezbollah and Hamas terrorists.

It uses the same tactics and training against unarmed Palestinians also.

Uighurs

The situation with Uighurs is completely different from Palestinians. The Uighurs are not living in refugee camps, after having been evicted. They do not have massive unemployment due to military checkpoints everywhere. They are full citizens of a rich country. They do have legitimate concerns about their cultural and religious rituals and those need to be addressed peacefully. There is no justification for terrorism either by Uighurs or Palestinians.

 

[Developereo]

Develeporeo :

what are you trying to prove here?? That India's alliance with Israel is unholy ?? Fine for argument sake, let me humour you.Yes it is unholy and is upon the blood of innocent Palestinians to whom we regularly and massively contribute in aid more than you country can ever think of.

You are paying them blood money, trying to buy your way out of a guilty conscience.

But the surprising fact is that the Palestinians don't seem to mind this. So India doesnt mind, the Palestinians dont mind, the Isaelis dont mind. What is then your bother sir ??

The Palestinians have precious few friends. Certainly not their Arab 'brothers' in the oil rich countries.

But don't forget that nobody missed your double standards about your support to China and your Governments deaf and dumb stand on the plights of the Uighurs.And frankly I am not surprised at that, because these humanitarian principles may be great to advise to somebody but when it comes to one's own national interests all these things usually go for a hike.

Already addressed. Pakistan should work with China to address Uighur concerns so that terrorism does not find a foothold there. It is an internal matter. The Uighurs are Chinese and the Chinese government is working to remedy the situation. This is unlike Israel, where it doesn't even acknowledge that it has done anything wrong and insists that the Arabs refugees will never be allowed to return to their homes. That is an international matter.

Totally different situation.

 

[Vinod2070]

Spoken like a true advocate of democracy. Oh wait...

Good. So you are now going to teach us democracy as well, the great strength of the Islamic world and Pakistan.

Turkey's relationship with Israel is complex and has more than a little to do with Arabs' hatred for Turks.

And that justifies it in your opinion?

Our relationship is not complex for some reason?

There's that TNT again. Is that code for something other than dynamite? I don't understand...

I think you do. It stands for the justification of the partition of India. Clear now?

Nothing presumptive about it. We can tell by the tenor of the posts in this very forum. If they are representative of India at large, that says it all about lack of respect for diversity of opinion.

It is nothing but hallucination. You presume something and convince yourself, nothing more than that.

In most Muslim countries, it is the government who befriends Israel, not the people.

The governments consist of Muslims as well. So at least one Muslim is supporting Israel, why not an Indian Muslim?

And you said earlier that your opposition had nothing to do with being a Muslim! So are you not tying yourself all over in knots?

Are you saying the 1947 migration was only one way? That India was blameless?

India didn't have ethnic cleansing. We had a large number of Muslims and they have been increasing in population share.

Unlike Pakistan! Don't even bother comparing.

Certainly, I am concerned. When we are in a thread about India-Lebanon relationship, we can discuss that.

It was simply about the plight of Palestinians that you brought up. It seems you care nothing for Palestinians, just using them to target Israel. It comes through.

First you say all the Arabs want to wipe Israel off the map, now you say I am making it up....

That is history of the 1947 war.

Only until they are forced out again; or Arabs are allowed to return to their homes.

Not happening in a hurry. It only shows that you are an enemy of the only practical way to achieve peace. A two state solution with guaranteed security for Israel and a viable Palestine.

If it makes you sleep better at night...

It doesn't depend on you.

Or maybe it's just your hatred of Muslims clouding your judgement. See, I can use that word gratuitously, too.

I know, Islamophobia was waiting to be brought in. The last weapon of the Islamist.

Nobody's justifying whatever happened in Iran. And it is clear you don't know your own history about Buddhism's eradication from ancient India.

I know may be more than you. Don't assume what I know or don't know. But this is off topic, isn't it?

Living vicariously through Israel's strength, I see. There's lots of tough guys like that on the internet...

I was talking about Arabs having the numbers on their side! What did you think?

By calling Arafat a 'brother in arms', Nelson Mandela equated Israel with apartheid-era South Africa.

Not surprising, really, considering Israel was the principal arms supplier to that apartheid-era government. Birds of a feather...

We don't support all the policies of Israel. But we recognize them as a sovereign country.

 

[LaBong]

You are saying Israel has good technology. By that logic, you should have had good relations with apartheid-era South Africa. But you didn't.

Because apartheid era South Africa isn't same as Israel. Unlike SA, non-Jewish subjects in Israel enjoy religious freedom.

 

[Vinod2070]

Counter-insurgency is also applicable to fighting Palestinian resistance movement.

You mean the Hamas?

These issues 'crop up' only because you bring them up instead of focussing on the topic.

Who brought the Indian Muslims? Short term memory loss?

The same way that Americans and Germans have come to terms with their past and have offered reconciliation with their victims (Native Americans, blacks, Jews), the same thing needs to happen between Jews and Arabs. That means Arab refugees returning to their homes and Jews acknowledging their past deeds. It will happen eventually, since you can't hide the truth for ever, but it's better for it to happen sooner rather than later.

That is an excellent suggestion.

Would you suggest the same for the massive atrocities (much bigger than in Palestine) by the Islamic invaders in the Indian subcontinent? That would be the true test of your sincerity.

And also for the victims of ethnic cleansing in 1947. Almost all of Lahore was owned by non-Muslims, much of the agricultural land in Punjab as well that was claimed from the marshes by the hard working Sikhs. Would you return it to them as well?

Let's see you set an example and I would wholeheartedly support you in this.

I can't help it if you see everything through a religious prism.

Pot, kettle!

It uses the same tactics and training against unarmed Palestinians also.

How can it be the same tactics? Does it need India's help for this?

The situation with Uighurs is completely different from Palestinians. The Uighurs are not living in refugee camps, after having been evicted. They do not have massive unemployment due to military checkpoints everywhere. They are full citizens of a rich country. They do have legitimate concerns about their cultural and religious rituals and those need to be addressed peacefully. There is no justification for terrorism either by Uighurs or Palestinians.

What does rich or poor have to do with it?

Do the Uighurs think they are Chinese or you are presuming to decide for them as well.

 

[Vinod2070]

Pakistan should work with China to address Uighur concerns so that terrorism does not find a foothold there.

I won't get into this discussion but just on this, I would say just try even bringing up the topic. Your GOP will never dare do it because they know what is what better than the gullible people who misjudge what their real influence is.

Just try bringing up the issue with an individual Chinese on an internet forum even.

 

[KS]

You are paying them blood money, trying to buy your way out of a guilty conscience.

Yeah yeah we get this often ; It can be better phrased as 'Neighbour's envy, owner's pride'. Now don't tell me tomorrow if Israel were to offer Pakistan their Phalcon AWACS, PAF will turn the offer down.

The Palestinians have precious few friends. Certainly not their Arab 'brothers' in the oil rich countries.

So ?? India has been and is their friend. We do better than empty sloganeering on our streets. We actually contribute aid to them.

Already addressed. Pakistan should work with China to address Uighur concerns so that terrorism does not find a foothold there. It is an internal matter. The Uighurs are Chinese and the Chinese government is working to remedy the situation. This is unlike Israel, where it doesn't even acknowledge that it has done anything wrong and insists that the Arabs refugees will never be allowed to return to their homes. That is an international matter.

Not addressed ; When did China acknowledge that its sorry for the repressive tactics on the Uighurs and the cultural invasion of Uighurs. Leave the Chinese government, try saying that Chinese are wrong in repressing the Uighurs to any Chinese even in this forum, they will chew you live.

And yes India too 'believes' that Israel needs too needs to work closely with the Palestinians. Happy ?? You believe that Chinese needs to work with Uighurs, we believe Israel needs to work with Israelis.

And you still did not prove me the alleged discrimination Muslims/Christians undergo in Israel that you were bandying about in your earlier posts.

 

[KS]

It uses the same tactics and training against unarmed Palestinians also.

Your opinion ! Not fact. And yeah it was the poor unarmed Palestinian who fired tens of long range Grad rockets into civilian areas last week.It seems your hypocrisy knows no limits.

First develop some gall to condemn your Government deaf-and-dumb posture on the plight of the Uighurs at the hands of the Chinese.. heck first try doing that to some online Chinese and see the reaction.

The situation with Uighurs is completely different from Palestinians. The Uighurs are not living in refugee camps, after having been evicted. They do not have massive unemployment due to military checkpoints everywhere. They are full citizens of a rich country. They do have legitimate concerns about their cultural and religious rituals and those need to be addressed peacefully. There is no justification for terrorism either by Uighurs or Palestinians.

We both know better. Now dont try to insult my intelligence

 

[Dash]

Hi Xinix -

Welcome back.

Though we can claim that India and Israel share a great deal of comfort, but only at a operational level and that also limited to matters of defense. Though we are trying get some techs on agriculture and other coz they are really developed in that field, Yet I feel its still in a rudimentary stage to call it an all weather friend alliance. Its not an alliance like US and Israel, US and UK (even they have issues).

So it will be called as a conditional friendship and most importantly we dont even know at what level it is coz of the amount of secrecy involved.

We need to get out of feeling that anybody who helped us on the way is our friend. I think we are just doing that.

By the way, it was a good read.

 

[FNFAL]

THERE IS NO GOOD THINGIN ISRAEL ITS JUST A SMALL JEWISH STATE WHICH ILLEGELING CAPTURE THE PART OF PELISTINE

isn that userid of urs a slang???

 

[Chanakyaa]

I have Three Points to Make :

#1. US is Kiilling More Muslims than Any on the Planet.

Why Buy F16s ?? Why Pay Them ?? ...

Conclusion : Pakistan Too is Busy Helping the Murderers of Muslims !!!

#2. Russia Invaded Afghanistan .. Killed Muslims .. and followers of Islam !

Why Get RD-93 Engines ???

Conclusion : National Interest and Security is Top Priority. Not Islam !!

#3. US is Most Hated Nation in Pakistan, People are against US ( Very different as almost NO one Hates Israel in India upto the same level.. not even close !! )

Why Give Blind Support to US ...and have ur Own Civilian's Killed .. Does Public Opinion get Immaterial Here ?

Conclusion : Public Opinion is secondary to national and Political Interests.

Before saying a word against Indo-israeli Alliance do have an introspection if similar views could be suggested for Us-Pakistan Alliance.

Its Enough Guys.. Return to India and Israel.