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Strength of alliance between India-Isreal

Yes they have the right to express their opinion in a democracy, but they are not the sole player in democratic India.

Interest of India comes first for absolute majority of Indians and since 1990 having a good relationship with Israel has become a necessity for national interest and internal/external security.

Also, India's support for Palestine in UN isn't because Indian Muslims demand so. Palestine is a non-issue to Indian Muslims as a collective unit.

The support is the result of Mahatma Gandhi's policy vis-a-vis Israel-Palestine conflict, India's involvement in NAM and left parties strong support for Palestine.
 
Turkey made it clear what its position was on Palestine; and part of sucking up to Israel was to please EU. I don't respect them for it.

Egypt's population is 95% anti-Israel. It was only the US-paid thug Mubarak who maintained peace with Israel, not the people of Egypt.


What rubbish are you talking bout Egypt has a peace treaty with Israel :hitwall: the army even today still honours it as for Turkey they were the closest friend of Israel go wiki it.


Israel–Turkey relations were formalized in March 1949[1] when Turkey became the first Muslim majority country (before Iran in 1950) to recognize the State of Israel.
 
The issue is not what you do for the Palestinians, but what you do for Israel. Pakistan and Turkey do not help Israel militarily.

You sure? Turkey had a $50 billion deal with Israel!

If you cannot address the issue, just say so, and we can move on.

I hit the nail on the head. That was the issue.

Once again, it is countries that are secular, not people. In the US, there are Jews and Christians who lobby their government on behalf of issues they care about -- religiously motivated issues.

So, have you seen Indian Muslims complain about it? Why are you assuming to speak on their behalf? They seem to have no issues and don't consider the relations to be against their interests. Also the decisions are taken in national interest and that means their interests as well. They also voted the government into power.

For me it's a matter of human rights against religious bigotry. It is Israel who has turned it into a religious war, but making Jewishness central to its very existence and denying the rights of non-Jewish refugees.

Then why bring Indian Muslims into it? Are you saying only Muslims care for human rights and are the only non bigots?

If every Muslim majority country can declare itself Islamic, why do you have a problem if non Muslim countries start doing the same?

Also are you sure the Arab neighbors like lebanon are treating the Palestinian refugees well?Any issues with them?

There are people who will sell out principles for perceived material gain. They are found in every society.
Lately, I keep losing respect for Musharraf every time he lets loose with his verbal diarrhea (about other matters).

Like you selling the Afghans for money from the USA?

No, the Arabs just wanted the land they had been living on for thousands of years. Nothing religious about it. It is the Israelis who brought religion into this by claiming the land was reserved for Abraham by God Himself.

Tell me, is it about all Arabs (and Muslims too) or just the Palestinians? If it is about Arabs, they have 99% of their land still and a relatively low population density and abundance of oil money.

You can see your own absurdity if you say that Islam has nothing to do with your hated for Israel. Everyone can see through it.

If you want to be a spokesperson for the Ummah, be open about it.

Great. Since it's such a small amnount of land, maybe you can find some empty land in India and give it to relocate Israel.
Since you two get along so splendidly.

We let in the Parsiss when they were persecuted by the Islamists in their own country and their culture and religion was brutally uprooted. If something similar happens to the Jews, they will have a refuge in India.

Like a bank robber who doesn't shoot his hostages...

Like a responsible nation that uses its strength for deterrence.

Nobody's saying that, but you don't see any Indian Muslims pub

Their choice? Why do you need to bother?

You are saying Israel has good technology. By that logic, you should have had good relations with apartheid-era South Africa.
But you didn't.

Principles matter.

Yes, and we are friendly with both parties, want a fair resolution to the issue and our being friendly with both can help us be a better interlocutor if both of them need our help.
 
The debate is not about hate but principles. Humanitarian principles.

If you cannot defend the position, just say so, instead of spouting random words.

Frankly, I see nothing to defend here. Your hypocritical humanitarian principles are too plain to see through.

Never saw you standing for these principles on the issues of Muslim committing genocides. Darfur anyone, Taliban in Afghanistan, Iran Iraq war, the Kurd genocide by chemical weapons, Bangladesh in 1971, the ethnic cleansing in Pakistan itself in 1947 (97% Islamic) etc. Never saw you raging on any of these.

Turkey made it clear what its position was on Palestine; and part of sucking up to Israel was to please EU. I don't respect them for it.

Like they care! Even now they have good relations with Israel.

Egypt's population is 95% anti-Israel. It was only the US-paid thug Mubarak who maintained peace with Israel, not the people of Egypt.

What would you rather have? A Egypt-Israel war again? Whose interests would it serve?

Why doesn't Pakistan go to war with them if you are so itching for war with Israel?
 
Why are we talking this rubbish this thread is about Indo-Israel ties nothing to do with freaking Egypt or arabs!!
 
What rubbish are you talking bout Egypt has a peace treaty with Israel :hitwall: the army even today still honours it as for Turkey they were the closest friend of Israel go wiki it.


Israel–Turkey relations were formalized in March 1949[1] when Turkey became the first Muslim majority country (before Iran in 1950) to recognize the State of Israel.

Once again, the Egypt-Israel peace accord is only supported by the Egyptian government and military -- both of which are addicted to US dollars. The Egyptian people are 95% against Israel.

And Turkey making up with Israel was also about sucking up to the West. Turkey's population is far less friendly towards Israel than its government.

You sure? Turkey had a $50 billion deal with Israel!

Mostly Turks buying Israeli military equipment.

I hit the nail on the head. That was the issue.

Not sure what you're on about. The issue was Indian Muslims' ability to voice dissent and you started going on about TNT. Hello????

So, have you seen Indian Muslims complain about it? Why are you assuming to speak on their behalf? They seem to have no issues and don't consider the relations to be against their interests. Also the decisions are taken in national interest and that means their interests as well. They also voted the government into power.

Elections are usually about domestic issues, not international affairs. Just by the tenor of the posts here, it is clear if anyone objected to Israel, they would be accused of sabotaging 'national interests'. Especially Muslims. So much for respecting differences of opinion.

Then why bring Indian Muslims into it?

Because an Indian poster said he is Muslim and he supports Israel.

If every Muslim majority country can declare itself Islamic, why do you have a problem if non Muslim countries start doing the same?

If any country starts evicting people en masse because of their religion or ethnicity, that is a cause for concern. People complain about Yugoslavia, Rwada, Darfur. And Israel. They are all abhorrent. Except Israel gets a pass.

Also are you sure the Arab neighbors like lebanon are treating the Palestinian refugees well?Any issues with them?
Like you selling the Afghans for money from the USA?

This discussion is about India and Israel, not the rest of the world. We can open other threads if you want to discuss.

Tell me, is it about all Arabs (and Muslims too) or just the Palestinians? If it is about Arabs, they have 99% of their land still and a relatively low population density and abundance of oil money.

Who are you to tell them what to do with their land that their ancestors have been living continuously for 2000 years?

You can see your own absurdity if you say that Islam has nothing to do with your hated for Israel. Everyone can see through it.

What everyone can see is your pathetic tendency to randomly spout the word 'hatred' when you fail to make a point.

If you want to be a spokesperson for the Ummah, be open about it.

I only speak of muyself. Only Islamophones are obsessed with the 'ummah'.

We let in the Parsiss when they were persecuted by the Islamists in their own country and their culture and religion was brutally uprooted. If something similar happens to the Jews, they will have a refuge in India.

There are plenty of Parsis in Pakistan and Iran. And you weren't so kind to the Buddhists...

Like a responsible nation that uses its strength for deterrence.

Yes, the Palestinians have been 'deterred' quite thoroughly.

Yes, and we are friendly with both parties, want a fair resolution to the issue and our being friendly with both can help us be a better interlocutor if both of them need our help.

Nonsense!
You sold out your morals for material gains. You would never do business with apartheid-era South Africa, but you do so with Israel.

Remember, it was Nelson Mandela who called Arafat a 'brother in arms' at the Nobel Prize ceremony.
 
Why are we talking this rubbish this thread is about Indo-Israel ties nothing to do with freaking Egypt or arabs!!

The so called morality of the people who are opposing it doesn't have a leg to stand on. Let them bring it on. Let's see what they have got.
 
Frankly, I see nothing to defend here. Your hypocritical humanitarian principles are too plain to see through.

Never saw you standing for these principles on the issues of Muslim committing genocides. Darfur anyone, Taliban in Afghanistan, Iran Iraq war, the Kurd genocide by chemical weapons, Bangladesh in 1971, the ethnic cleansing in Pakistan itself in 1947 (97% Islamic) etc. Never saw you raging on any of these.

What does all this have to do with the topic on hand?
Another diversion tactic when you can't address the issues, eh?

Why doesn't Pakistan go to war with them if you are so itching for war with Israel?

Nobody wants to go to war with Israel. We want to expose the truth behind the evil that is Zionism.

Let them bring it on. Let's see what they have got.

A thuggish mindset. Predictably.
 
The issue is not what you do for the Palestinians, but what you do for Israel. Pakistan and Turkey do not help Israel militarily.

Just curious..... But werent you saying to me that India is of no use to Israel in any military sense and only India needs Israel. ?

Why this sudden change of stance ?

With all due respect to India, Israel doesn't need India for technical expertise -- they have front row access to the latest American tech.

The debate is not about hate but principles. Humanitarian principles.

If you cannot defend the position, just say so, instead of spouting random words.

WoW strong words from a person whose country considers the oppressors and reppresors of innocent Uighur Muslims as their deeper than ocean friend.

Oh damn! I just forgot that the 'humanitarian principle' can take a hike when it comes to their own national interests.
 
India, Israel and USA can be a very powerful alliances and very important against battle against terrorism.
 
Once again, the Egypt-Israel peace accord is only supported by the Egyptian government and military -- both of which are addicted to US dollars. The Egyptian people are 95% against Israel.

And Turkey making up with Israel was also about sucking up to the West. Turkey's population is far less friendly towards Israel than its government.

Let's see what these countries do in the future. I don't see them playing war war with Israel if they care for the people.

The governments necessarily need to be more rational than the gullible people.

Mostly Turks buying Israeli military equipment.

Same as India. And on a much larger scale. So what was your point again?

Not sure what you're on about. The issue was Indian Muslims' ability to voice dissent and you started going on about TNT. Hello????

Where did you see that Indian Muslims are against the relationship? You only presumed it and started commenting on their status in India.

Where does it come from except for the need to justify TNT? Don't even bother trying here, it is plain to see.

Elections are usually about domestic issues, not international affairs. Just by the tenor of the posts here, it is clear if anyone objected to Israel, they would be accused of sabotaging 'national interests'. Especially Muslims. So much for respecting differences of opinion.

All presumptive and hypothetical.

Because an Indian poster said he is Muslim and he supports Israel.

So what is your problem with that? If whole Islamic countries can support Israel, why not an Indian Muslim?

If any country starts evicting people en masse because of their religion or ethnicity, that is a cause for concern. People complain about Yugoslavia, Rwada, Darfur. And Israel. They are all abhorrent. Except Israel gets a pass.

Add West Pakistan to the list. Almost complete ethnic cleansing in 1947, much more so than in Israel.

This discussion is about India and Israel, not the rest of the world. We can open other threads if you want to discuss.

I thought you were concerned by the plight of Palestinian refugees. Does the concern evaporate if the plight is in an Islamic country?

Who are you to tell them what to do with their land that their ancestors have been living continuously for 2000 years?

I am not telling anything. It is you who is trying to decide on behalf of the Jews and the Arabs.

Begaani shaadi me.....

Now the Jews are also living continuously in that land for 100 odd years. Does that count?

What everyone can see is your pathetic tendency to randomly spout the word 'hatred' when you fail to make a point.

Well, I made point pretty clear.

I only speak of muyself. Only Islamophones are obsessed with the 'ummah'.

Nope. It is clear where you are coming from.

There are plenty of Parsis in Pakistan and Iran. And you weren't so kind to the Buddhists...

Pakistan inherited them from India. Iran, well it was the primary religion there and suffered brutality. Its a sad tale like in so many other places at that time.

Buddhism and Hinduism are both Dharmic religions from the sacred soil of India and there have been periods when one is more ascendant than the other.

None of them was forced from outside at the point of a sword. Why would you use this to justify what happened in Iran?

Yes, the Palestinians have been 'deterred' quite thoroughly.

Not just the Palestinians. All the Arab world that set out to throw them to the sea.

They are not the David as you make them out to be. They have a tremendous advantage in all kinds of numbers, an advantage of 50-100 times.

Nonsense!
You sold out your morals for material gains. You would never do business with apartheid-era South Africa, but you do so with Israel.

Remember, it was Nelson Mandela who called Arafat a 'brother in arms' at the Nobel Prize ceremony.

We always helped Arafaat. Even he negotiated with Israel and recognized it. What are you going on about?
 
Pakistanis are mistaken, we have a good relationship with Israel because India has hostile neighbours in Pakistan and China.

So we are using Israel expertise in military for our benefits.
 
What does all this have to do with the topic on hand?
Another diversion tactic when you can't address the issues, eh?

This exposes the claim of any principles being behind your rage.

Nobody wants to go to war with Israel. We want to expose the truth behind the evil that is Zionism.

How exactly?

A thuggish mindset. Predictably.

By exposing your lies and real motivations!
 
Just curious..... But werent you saying to me that India is of no use to Israel in any military sense and only India needs Israel. ?

India and Israel conduct joint training, especially on counter insurgency tactics, which are directly applicable o oppresing Palestinians.

WoW strong words from a person whose country considers the oppressors and reppresors of innocent Uighur Muslims as their deeper than ocean friend.

Oh damn! I just forgot that the 'humanitarian principle' can take a hike when it comes to their own national interests.

It's a matter of scale; the Uighurs aren;t being exterminated. Their cultural traditions are under attack and I believe Pakistan should work with China to address those concerns peacefully to quell terrorist influences.

This exposes the claim of any principles being behind your rage.

The only thing it exposes is your tendency to go off-topic when you can't refute a point under discussion. Like I said, open other threads on specific subjects if you want to discuss.

How exactly?

By educating people about the actuall history of how Israel was formed: the clandestine migrations, the duplicity, the terrorism. Above all, people need to know the real face of Zionism and the evil that it represents.

By exposing your lies and real motivations!

Uh huh. Sure thing, Nancy...
 
India and Israel conduct joint training, especially on counter insurgency tactics, which are directly applicable o oppresing Palestinians.

So Israel has something to gain from India after all!

BTW, counter insurgency can't oppress Palestinians, only make everyone more secure.

It's a matter of scale; the Uighurs aren;t being exterminated. Their cultural traditions are under attack and I believe Pakistan should work with China to address those concerns peacefully to quell terrorist influences.

Are the Palestinians being exterminated? How so? they are still quite large in number and growing.

Why would you chose a different approach for the Uighurs?

The only thing it exposes is your tendency to go off-topic when you can't refute a point under discussion. Like I said, open other threads on specific subjects if you want to discuss.

Like you opened a thread for Indian Muslim's status! These are replies to the specific issues that crop up during a discussion.

By educating people about the actuall history of how Israel was formed: the clandestine migrations, the duplicity, the terrorism. Above all, people need to know the real face of Zionism and the evil that it represents.

OK, what is the practical solution in your opinion? You describe the problem, now let us see your practical solution.

Uh huh. Sure thing, Nancy...

Well, you may not be aware but people can see through the facade.
 

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