Strategic options on kashmir issue

[Shah_Deu]

i think he is confusing Turkik and Central Asian invaders with peoples indiginous to Pakistan. The fact is for 10,000 years Pakistan has been ruled by foreigners, from Mauryans and Guptas to Greeks to Kushans to Huns to Mughals. India, in contrast, was ruled by foreign powers for less than 500 years of its 10,000 year history. Not only that, but Hindu Indian empires ruled over modern Pakistan for almost 500 years. On the other hand, no empire native to Pakistan ever ruled any significant part of India. Pakistanis could barely rule themselves, let alone others.

I keep on posting this map made by the British, because this map alone destroys the myths of "1000 year Muslim rule" held by insecure Pakistanis.

View attachment 600986

So the map shows India as a subcontinent, where is India as a country on the map? Just like Europe and Americas cant be a country in themselves, India also is a unnatural confederation bound to implode sooner or later; with Modi sooner is looking more and more likely!

 

[Flash_Ninja]

These were not great rulers. Yaar.
These are only few rulers and including many rulers from India if you just go the list.



Aryan's were not occupiers or rulers.

Try to understand difference first, Sir.

What about King Porus of Jhelum the first man to defeat Alexander the Great in Battle? What about Ranjit Singh of Gujranwala who unified Punjab and provided the greatest resistance to British Rule in their conquests?

If you want "greats", one that comes to mind is Kanishka the Great of Peshawar; and the several Muslim empires that ruled over huge chunks of India like the Tughluq dynasty.

you are arguing with monkeys here ,

1 .a nation who rewards a coward with veer chakra ( on getting shot down)

2. they even celebrate raja prithvi who was humiliated by sultan ghouri and had his head chopped off while captive


point is, indians would celebrate anyone /anything that even stood up to muslim conquest ( only to be slapped down)

Not to mention the great irony of them celebrating these dynasties as they are hindu, when likely their ancestors who lived in the same slum for centuries were treated even worse than under the Mughals.

 

[blueazure]

Pakistan have no realistic options, strategic or otherwise, to do anything about Indian Kashmir. You got no tangible support from any other nation on earth on it, not even from Saudia, not the USA either, or any of the other gulf/Islamic countries. Platitudes mean nothing, words of support from socialist leaders in the US and UK mean nothing, they were just pandering for the muslim vote anyway.

It is probably best to forget about Indian Kashmir and concentrate on improving the economy etc.

B.S

 

[-=virus=-]

B.S

Share your realistic option then.

What possibly can Pakistan do in this situation given your have zero tangible (read: military) support from any other country on it ? A Pakistan initiated war of aggression will kill the effort before it begins, it is not realistic.

Your on the ground situation wrt the locals of Indian Kashmir is also, despite everything, still not very good. No possibility of any successful large scale asymmetric/proxy warfare campaigns in the valley, your guys know it better than anyone.

anyway, what can you think of.. say you're supreme leader of Pakistan, how would you handle it ?

 

[SIPRA]

B.S

If you allow me, I want to increase the font size of your very valid response and make it bold.

 

[-=virus=-]

If you allow me, I want to increase the font size of your very valid response and make it bold.

I'd be very interested in hearing your solution for it from a pro Pakistan perspective too, sir.

apna solution farmaiye + humey samjhaiye !

 

[Goku]

Pakistan anyways never recognised article 370 , called it an eyewash , never believed in it. Btw nothing changes on the ground for both the countries.
War of attrition will continue

 

[Mentee]

In an ideal world Pakistan would have initiated Preemptive strikes on east Indies defence and other vital infra with a blitzkrieg kinda ingress into Indian territory using every thing in its arsenal followed by hordes of civilian infantry armed to the teeth and china and gcc might have come in our diplomatic support but we live in a proportionate reality where enemy dictates our response and we gonna take severe losses before taking any action due to this pussy mentality.

I mean what's the point of having a gun when we couldn't fire the first round during contact with the adversary? It doesn't happen in real life. Or let's just make friends with India and give up our horses and kashmir.

Atleast make up your mind that whether you wanna pick a fight or not and if yes then why this half hearted approach and fear of sanctions that are going to be imposed anyways ? why care about casualties and other losses? They are a part and parcel of war.

Bus yeh doodh m mayngnay dalna bnd kro

@Mangus Ortus Novem

 

[SIPRA]

I'd be very interested in hearing your solution for it from a pro Pakistan perspective too, sir.

apna solution farmaiye + humey samjhaiye !

There is no solution or resolution of this dispute, in sight or in our reckoning; though progression of political process, is, more than often, quite unpredictable and circumstances can take very strange turns with time. There are innumerable instances of such changes in political history of mankind, whether ancient, medieval or modern.

 

[-=virus=-]

There is no solution or resolution of this dispute, in sight or in our reckoning; though progression of political process, is, more than often, quite unpredictable and circumstances can take very strange turns with time. There are innumerable instances of such changes in political history of mankind, whether ancient, medieval or modern.

I agree, there is always the possibility of a storm.

barring a catastrophic event, though (assassination of a head of state/large scale military hostilities etc)

a reversal of the scrapping of special status for Indian Kashmir going forward.. mushkil hi nahi, namumkin hai

370 is dead and gone from India. Pakistan must adjust to this new reality.

 

[SIPRA]

I agree, there is always the possibility of a storm.

Let us await for that.

370 is dead and gone from India. Pakistan must adjust to this new reality.

Revocation of Article 370 has, of course, certain implications; but, by and large, this Article, itself, or its revocation, for that matter, is meaningless, as far as Pakistan is concerned, and has no bearing, whatsoever, on the stance and position of Pakistan, on the right of self determination of the people of Kashmir. There is no new reality, to which Pakistan needs to adjust itself. It is virtually the same, starting with October, 1947.

 

[Gangetic]

India has been consolidating its strength in Kashmir for years. The best chances to take Kashmir were 47', 62', 65' and even 89'. Now they have millions of troops, physical defences, air bases, FOBs, moles, etc.

It was unfortunate that Kashmiris didn't rise up or go to the Pak army begging for small arms. But Kashmiris are disarmed compared to Pakhtuns and AJK folk, who mostly have guns.

Now with A370 gone they'll be pushing Biharis in Israeli-style. Doesn't help with low Kashmiri birth-rates. Even now I'm seeing Sanskrit text in Srinagar so the Gangufication of Kashmir is in full effect.

 

[masterchief_mirza]

We have heard this absurd logic repeated ad nauseaum that PakEconomy is in a poor state hence we cann't afford to go war. Such arguement lacks not only understand but rather reeks with stupidity....

Do you think Ganguz are going to sit pretty and allow us to grow economically, socially or politically? So that we become stronger... oh, then we will wage war... and all this time GanguDaesh will be not growing economically???

Bravo sir!

We are already in economic war with India. War with guns is simply another front to be opened of the war we're already in.

 

[Sine Nomine]

My very dear YoungPak,

You speak of Pakistanwali!

We have eaten grass and much more... and now we have the atum bumb to boast about...

What we see before us is the Game of Chicken.... and PakElite is Gangufied to its very core! With all those DubaiNights and much more in flesh and more flesh.... we have Hollowmen at the helm of affairs... and NOT Statesmen....

Even PMIK is more into Woodstock Sufisim of Pacifism... love all around.. talks solve things.. UNSC will come to solve things... or the world community would suddenly become Human.... la di da, la di da... and some more!

The Ugly Truth is we are hollowed out SoftState clinging on to Absurdity of Self-imposed Impotence.... permanently conditioning ourselves to Anglo-American Servitude.. while claiming Islam is superior...

Contradictions don't produce Clarity or Strength... if anything they sap it away...giving way to inconsistency and incompetence.

Clarity. Clarity. Clarity.

Clarity comes from within..from the depth of Soul and Purpose!

With deep ingress of Anglo-Americanz into FO, PoliticalElite and MarasiMedia/CriminalEnterprise .... we are not going to have any Clarity.

What are Pak's Strategic Interests? Short term, medium term, long term?

What we forget to understand is the fact that GanguDaesh can NOT allow a strong, prosperous and stable Pakistan. Even if we were hinduz or Ganguz were totally muslims. It is Statecraft 101.

Two strong states next to eachother always end up in conflict or at the minimum reduces the Comprehensive National Strength of the other. Power is Relative!

We have heard this absurd logic repeated ad nauseaum that PakEconomy is in a poor state hence we cann't afford to go war. Such arguement lacks not only understand but rather reeks with stupidity....

Do you think Ganguz are going to sit pretty and allow us to grow economically, socially or politically? So that we become stronger... oh, then we will wage war... and all this time GanguDaesh will be not growing economically???

War is the Darkest of Human Condition!

I am so anti War that you have no idea..but when we look at what we are dealing with... there is no other avenue left other than war... it can be dealyed...but it can never be written off... it cann't be!

For now... we must also understand that our deep wounds are self inflicted...

The permanent stand off between Ganguz and Paks suits China and it doesn't suit Yanks...

One wishes to keep Ganguz confined to the dust plains of Gangeez and the other wishes it to become regional Hegemon.... and Pakistan is that Factor in this PowerEquation...

CPEC is many things ... not just a road or some powerplants or some SEZs... CPEC is many things...

Till now we have fought NO Wars with Ganguz... we have fought two wars in Kabulistan... and the results I have elaborated many a times... but Ganguz have fought NO wars for centuries....

A War changes the Strategic Dynamic or PowerEquation... for 72 years the PowerEquation is the same..hence the Stand Off!

PakState is not willing to go to war with Ganguz not only for massive destruction but because of miscalculations, mitti pao paradigms in every aspect of life...and absence of Any Strategic Objectives as PakState... We have chosen to exist rather Be!

And it shows in every dimmension of OurLives....

Unless there is Clarity of the simple FACT that Ganguz will never allow Any Moment of Peace even if Kashmir joins Pakistan.... we shall remain in Hole... with Sweet Alice Wells visiting us every now and then... because we live at times where Global Power Architecture is in Flux.. and since past 200+years we have been and are CannonFodder....

Why did we Separate ourselves from British India before it became GanguDaesh?

Either, as you put it, we accept Gangu Hegemony or we stop this Woodstock Suffism ....

More a state tries to avoid war...more War finds it... Pakistan was birthed in PakBlood!

As PakNation... War of Terror imposed upon us Forged Paks together in PakBlood!

What I am trying to say @Mentee please, don't tie up your horse... we are NOT leaving our Horses!!!

All we, as PakState, need to do... is Become... Man up!.... Become....

Unless we are prepared to Make Glass out of GanguBones ... we must just keep quiet and tell PakNation the Ugly Truth that we have accepted GanguHegemony....

If it is not so... then please don't repeat Feb27th Woodstock Suffism.... and those absurd celeberation must stop...

Pakistan can only Advance if we stick to Pakistanwali...

For now Pakistan is neither Islamic nor Repbulic but a mish-mash of Marasism and is ruled by The CriminalEnterprise.


Selling IoJK to Ganguz will mean the End of Pakistan... so we better prepare to Be!


Mangus


P.S. Mentee... I wish to compose a piece about how we, Pakistan, have been providing Strategic Relief to BD...so that it doens't have to worry about Ganguz...and we are subjected to BDz taunts on daily basis about their little economy. AbsurdWorld!




@MastanKhan @masterchief_mirza @SIPRA @StormBreaker @HRK @Horus @Slav Defence @jaibi @Irfan Baloch @Ipcha Mistabra @Dubious @Signalian @WebMaster @Dazzler @PakSword @Indus Pakistan @Indus Valley @Sine Nomine @ps3linux @Reddington @Verve

The sword which Prophet Muhammad ( صلي الله علية وسلم) used in Uhad and later handed over to Abu Dujana(R.A) there was verse written on it,which was

"Cowardness is a huge defect,a defect that can't be mended,dignity and honour lies in charging up and it doesn't matters how much one is coward, if even he runs through length and breadth of universe,his fate and fears would find him and confront him"​

War would come one day,we like it or not.
https://www.google.com/url?q=https:...FjAXegQICBAB&usg=AOvVaw2YLxC5JvwW3L19D_Ovuelw

 

[Minho]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Punjab
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Sindh
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Khyber_Pakhtunkhwa
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Balochistan
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Kashmir

Your right it is funny when gangus with identity problems try to project their insecurities onto Pakistanis.



According to gangu logic Pashtuns now count as "foreigners"

what identity crisis? We are not the ones to be ruled by foeigners

What about King Porus of Jhelum the first man to defeat Alexander the Great in Battle? What about Ranjit Singh of Gujranwala who unified Punjab and provided the greatest resistance to British Rule in their conquests?

If you want "greats", one that comes to mind is Kanishka the Great of Peshawar; and the several Muslim empires that ruled over huge chunks of India like the Tughluq dynasty.



Not to mention the great irony of them celebrating these dynasties as they are hindu, when likely their ancestors who lived in the same slum for centuries were treated even worse than under the Mughals.

You talk about alternative history, yet you actually think Porus beat Alexander

Whereas most historians agree he was defeated by Alexander.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_campaign_of_Alexander_the_Great


In fact, alexander attempted to invade the gangetic plains, but was repelled by the ruling Nanda Empire.
The only South Asian Emprire to defeat the Greeks was The Muryan Empire, ruled by a Bihari.

And since you have not been able to counter this map, I will post it again.

The fact is the Marathas ahd ruled the subcontinent for several centuries before the British arrived, which is why the British had to defeat the Marathas to rule the subcontinent. The Marathas even ruled over large parts of modern Pakistan for as long as the Mughals and Tugluqs ruled parts of India. And even during the Mughal and delhi Sultanate period, most of India was ruled by hindu Empires such as vijayangara, Travancore, Ahoms, etc.(Akbar even aknowledged Vijayangara as the most powerful state in South Asia),while the former two empires were mostly limited to the north. On the other hand, they ruled modern Pakistan for 1000 years.