Stop violence against Christians in Karnataka

[Irfan Baloch]

Quoted in the vain hope of curing the obsession of certain elements

---------- Post added at 02:41 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:40 PM ----------

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Quoted again for reference ,



Now its funny that certain people who left India in 1947 and infact left Asia itself soon after continue to prfess their ignorance by ignoring the words of people from the ground. Let the tamasha continue..

but tell me, are they right or wrong? is there no such issue? no hostility at all?


@addressing everyone now (Indian Pakistanis etc)

we acknowledge that we have these similar problems and we are kept reminded of that by you guys anyway.
instead of complaining about obsession (although its a 2 way process) dismissing it on the bases of being Anti-India and then dragging the discussion to controversies raised about Islamic faith, why not actually take the story at face value and firstly decide if such thing happens at all or not?

if not then give quotations without rhetoric and request the closure of the thread?
if the inevitable happens and it is acknowledged that even India has this issue like the rest of the world then say how you view it , talk about the causes and what the community and sate has done to prevent it?

I don’t see how references of Quran or Hadith are relevant in the attacks on Christians in India. (just for record) If you take any religious text out of context then you can play with it in any way you want. (check what Christians believe will be done to Jews at the time of end of days) Just for the information, the prophet Muhammad PBUH already warned that if anyone finds sayings attributed to him that are contradictory to the Islamic teachings then those sayings should be thrown to the wall because he would never say such thing.


please stay on topic or request its closure saying you cant tolerate any Anti_indian news because it is intended for flame war but then use the same rule for Pakistani news too.

I see people reporting posts when they find something offensive but then I find the same people involved in instigating flame wars and posting that are solely for the purpose of trolling.

We need to go beyond the one liner chatting and think for a moment before making a post. one can learn a lot and take something positive even from a very sensitive or controversial issue. give it a try at least once after every 20 mundane posts? You never know you like it

 

[LaBong]

MANU is not just a story writer he is a credible source of information thats why veda's and purana quotes him..
Manu and his teachings are glorified throughout the scriptures, both in the Vedas, the Puranas and in the writings of the Acharyas.

correct me if am wrong...

Do you not get the simple fact that Manu Samhita was written thousands years after Vedas? Even if there is any mention of Manu in Yajur Vedas, it was added in much later period to give Manu Samhita recognition.

Let's assume Vedas indeed glorify Manu, and I condemn the hate preaching verses in Manu Samhita, now would you do the same for the Books you follow?

 

[StandForInsaf]

Do you not get the simple fact that Manu Samhita was written thousands years after Vedas? Even if there is any mention of Manu in Yajur Vedas, it was added in much later period to give Manu Samhita recognition.

Let's assume Vedas indeed glorify Manu, and I condemn the hate preaching verses in Manu Samhita, now would you do the same for the Books you follow?

Right we should condemn killing without any religious bias. We must be human first.

 

[LaBong]

@addressing everyone now (Indian Pakistanis etc)

we acknowledge that we have these similar problems and we are kept reminded of that by you guys anyway.
instead of complaining about obsession (although its a 2 way process) dismissing it on the bases of being Anti-India and then dragging the discussion to controversies raised about Islamic faith, why not actually take the story at face value and firstly decide if such thing happens at all or not?

It was addressed a long time ago actually.

I'm a Catholic Christian from Mangalore. Born and brought up there. Lived there for 25years of my life. I nor any one in my family or any of the fellow Catholics I know has faced any hate crime or discriminated against due to religion. In fact there are a few radical Christian sects who have recently started operations in the region, who are creating communal problems not only for non-Christians, but even for Catholic Christians, who have been living there in peace with other communities for many centuries. These new radical christian sects are mostly funded from foreign countries and they are run like multi-national companies. The more the members they get, the more the funds they can get.

No one denies that there are extremist elements in India, we are not perfect, however posting random fanatic Christian blogs to score point also does fall under flame baiting, I reckon!

 

[vinith98]

Well I'm a Manglorean Catholic and the one of the church(a monastery actually) which was attacked was less than a kilometer from where I stay. My opinion is that both the sides were responsible for this to happen. At one side there was an organization called "New Life" which by the way, is in no way related to my church i.e. The Roman Catholic church. Such groups get a lot of funding from abroad and indulge in conversions, if you want to know many such people have come to my house to talk about it as well . At the same time there are these radical Hindu groups like the Ram Sena, Bajrang dal who seem to be waiting for an opportunity to attack the Catholic community here.

My opinion is the police should keep an eye on such groups, announcements have been made at all churches advising people to stay away from organisations such as "New Life". But the only thing I wish is that the state government take strict action groups such as the Ram Sena, Bajrang dal which have completely tarnished the image of my otherwise peaceful city.

 

[Kadamba]

Here is first hand knowledge for my friend.

The Yajur Veda Taittiriya Sanhita - Anonymous - Google Books

i do have interest in studying international religions ......

MANU is not just a story writer he is a credible source of information thats why veda's and purana quotes him..
Manu and his teachings are glorified throughout the scriptures, both in the Vedas, the Puranas and in the writings of the Acharyas.

same MANU also says this
http://www.defence.pk/forums/world-...ainst-christians-karnataka-9.html#post2276218

correct me if am wrong...

Even though I did not want to involve in religious discussion in this thread; since you are interested in studying international religions; and filled with misconceptions, thought of giving a try to remove those misconceptions.

I will answer you from 2 perspectives.

Dude, there are 2 categories of hindu texts. Sruti’s, Smriti’s.

Śruti is solely of divine origin and contains no specific concepts of law. Because of the divine origin, it is preserved as a whole, instead of verse by verse. Pre-eminent in śruti literature are the four Vedas. The liturgical core of each of the Vedas are supplemented by commentaries on each text which all belong to the śruti canon: Brahmanas, Aranyakas, Upanishads.

Smriti (meaning: "to remember") does not have divine origins. In a sense, Smriti consists of the memories of wisdom that sages have passed on to their disciples. These memories consist of traditions. It is these memories consequently have been recorded to become a written source. The most famous and the earliest known smrti text is the Laws of Manu, (Manu Smriti).

Thus If you go by Historical Perspective :

A range of historical opinion generally dates composition of Manu Smriti, any time between 200 BCE and 200 CE. The Yajurveda, is the third of the four Sruti’s texts of Hinduism, the Vedas. By some, it is estimated to have been composed between 1400 and 1000 BC.

Now you decide which was written first; Vedas or Manu Smriti, and form your opinion !!

If you Strictly go By religious perspective Regarding question of glorification of manu in veda ;

Manu is not a single person. Manu is a title accorded to the progenitor of mankind and the first king to rule earth, who saved mankind from the universal flood. (Pralaya). So its not surprise if you find mention of manu in veda.

Hindu theology considers the creation and destruction of the universe a cyclic process.
For more details Hindu units of measurement - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Each Manu rules during an eon called a Manvantara(Cosmic Period). The duration of one manvantara, is the lifespan of one Manu. 15 Manus are attributed to the present Śveta Vārāha Kalpa (Kalpa: larger cosmic period containing manvantaras) among whom First one is, Svayambhuva Manu to whom Dharmashastra (Manusmriti or rule's of Manu) texts are ascribed to[/B].

The present Manu is the Vaivasvata Manu ruling 7th Manvantara: (7th among total 15 manus of currently running kalpa) who is no where related to manu Smriti;

Thus Manu Smriti which you refer is ascribed to first Manu is not applicable to us as we are not living in first manvantara; (Discussions on the good and bads of manu smriti is different matter altogether).

Manu (Hinduism) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


You are free to choose/not choose which ever perspective.

 

[StandForInsaf]

Even though I did not want to involve in religious discussion in this thread; since you are interested in studying international religions; and filled with misconceptions, thought of giving a try to remove those misconceptions.

I will answer you from 2 perspectives.

Dude, there are 2 categories of hindu texts. Sruti’s, Smriti’s.

Śruti is solely of divine origin and contains no specific concepts of law. Because of the divine origin, it is preserved as a whole, instead of verse by verse. Pre-eminent in śruti literature are the four Vedas. The liturgical core of each of the Vedas are supplemented by commentaries on each text which all belong to the śruti canon: Brahmanas, Aranyakas, Upanishads.

Smriti (meaning: "to remember") does not have divine origins. In a sense, Smriti consists of the memories of wisdom that sages have passed on to their disciples. These memories consist of traditions. It is these memories consequently have been recorded to become a written source. The most famous and the earliest known smrti text is the Laws of Manu, (Manu Smriti).

Thus If you go by Historical Perspective :

A range of historical opinion generally dates composition of Manu Smriti, any time between 200 BCE and 200 CE. The Yajurveda, is the third of the four Sruti’s texts of Hinduism, the Vedas. By some, it is estimated to have been composed between 1400 and 1000 BC.

Now you decide which was written first; Vedas or Manu Smriti, and form your opinion !!

If you Strictly go By religious perspective Regarding question of glorification of manu in veda ;

Manu is not a single person. Manu is a title accorded to the progenitor of mankind and the first king to rule earth, who saved mankind from the universal flood. (Pralaya). So its not surprise if you find mention of manu in veda.

Hindu theology considers the creation and destruction of the universe a cyclic process.
For more details Hindu units of measurement - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Each Manu rules during an eon called a Manvantara(Cosmic Period). The duration of one manvantara, is the lifespan of one Manu. 15 Manus are attributed to the present Śveta Vārāha Kalpa (Kalpa: larger cosmic period containing manvantaras) among whom First one is, Svayambhuva Manu to whom Dharmashastra (Manusmriti or rule's of Manu) texts are ascribed to[/B].

The present Manu is the Vaivasvata Manu ruling 7th Manvantara: (7th among total 15 manus of currently running kalpa) who is no where related to manu Smriti;

Thus Manu Smriti which you refer is ascribed to first Manu is not applicable to us as we are not living in first manvantara; (Discussions on the good and bads of manu smriti is different matter altogether).

Manu (Hinduism) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


You are free to choose/not choose which ever perspective.

good info , got your opinion (we can discuss further but its not appropriate thread but glad to see your theory rejected extremism).

EDIT:

Suppose if your theory suggests otherwise means these rules apply now will you do these things?

 

[Polemos]

Well I'm a Manglorean Catholic and the one of the church(a monastery actually) which was attacked was less than a kilometer from where I stay. My opinion is that both the sides were responsible for this to happen. At one side there was an organization called "New Life" which by the way, is in no way related to my church i.e. The Roman Catholic church. Such groups get a lot of funding from abroad and indulge in conversions, if you want to know many such people have come to my house to talk about it as well . At the same time there are these radical Hindu groups like the Ram Sena, Bajrang dal who seem to be waiting for an opportunity to attack the Catholic community here.

My opinion is the police should keep an eye on such groups, announcements have been made at all churches advising people to stay away from organisations such as "New Life". But the only thing I wish is that the state government take strict action groups such as the Ram Sena, Bajrang dal which have completely tarnished the image of my otherwise peaceful city.

Yup, I used to stay in Mangalore too some years back. Remember it as a sleepy city( a town rather), but much has changed since then. I was frankly shocked to hear about Ram Sene. I hope these goons are put where they belong- behind bars.

 

[Infinity]

Keyword - Retaliate.

LOL what will local Hindus know about the dozens of sects in Christianity ?

If a fringe group attacks their local traditions and indulges in forced conversion that upsets the delicate balance they will take their ire on the nearest Christian..how do they know you are a catholic, or protestant or whatever...

BTW it is also mentioned in that article.. and the author himself (Karnataka state minority commission member) has suggested that the mainstream Christian bodies must rein in these fringe extremist evangelical terrorist groups that are spoiling the harmony in Mangalore.

P.s.:- wikipedia..cute.

I have read this in many of your post........How can a minority community convert a persons religion by Force.....

 

[Veeru]

Few minutes back i have posted a thread about the:

Pakistan Police “Torture” Pregnant Christian Maid

BosNewsLife – Christian News Agency » Blog Archive » Pakistan Police “Torture” Pregnant Christian Maid

Sri Lanka Guardian: PAKISTAN: A Pregnant maid tortured

A Pregnant Christian maid is allegedly tortured in the town where Osama bin Laden was killed

But that thread was deleted but this thread is still running??????

No, Mod is online currently??????

 

[Infinity]

Conversion must stop in India. Hindus, Sikhs and Buddhists do not go around converting others. It is only Abrahamic religions like Christianity and Islam that convert others. Religious conversions must be banned by law in India. Proselytising, which has been the main function and activity of Christian and Muslim clergy for thousands of years must be legally banned in India and perpetrators thrown into jail.

You were one of my favorite Indian posters.......But you have questioned my Fundamental right.........Name a Democracy were Conversion to religion of Choice banned.............

---------- Post added at 10:59 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:57 PM ----------

Few minutes back i have posted a thread about the:

Pakistan Police “Torture” Pregnant Christian Maid

BosNewsLife – Christian News Agency » Blog Archive » Pakistan Police “Torture” Pregnant Christian Maid

Sri Lanka Guardian: PAKISTAN: A Pregnant maid tortured

A Pregnant Christian maid is allegedly tortured in the town where Osama bin Laden was killed

But that thread was deleted but this thread is still running??????

No, Mod is online currently??????

We are talking about India........Why Pakistan ??????.............Don't have courage to face Truth..............

 

[Tshering22]

Wow! A violent missionary group that uses Maoists to kill mainstream Hindu sages and destroy their ashrams now wants "security".

 

[Infinity]

Wow! A violent missionary group that uses Maoists to kill mainstream Hindu sages and destroy their ashrams now wants "security".

To my Knowledge Maoist are Atheist............

 

[53fd]

It seems as if the Hindu hoodlums are allowed to take laws into their hands against Christian preachers, even in cases where there is no proof of forceful conversion. The hoodlums & the police seem to be hands in together against these Christians here, & are willing to punish the Christians for conversions than the hoodlums who act violently against them. Is India really a secular state? If there is no law against conversions in India, why are Christians being beaten up & imprisoned, when there isn't a case of forceful conversion? Why is no action being taken place against the Hindu hoodlums who act violently against these Christians preachers?

 

[kingkobra]

It seems as if the Hindu hoodlums are allowed to take laws into their hands against Christian preachers, even in cases where there is no proof of forceful conversion. The hoodlums & the police seem to be hands in together against these Christians here, & are willing to punish the Christians for conversions than the hoodlums who act violently against them. Is India really a secular state? If there is no law against conversions in India, why are Christians being beaten up & imprisoned, when there isn't a case of forceful conversion? Why is no action being taken place against the Hindu hoodlums who act violently against these Christians preachers?

you should visit NE india someday where buddhists are converted to christianity on gunpoint...
killing someone is always bad but these missionaries are spreading hatred towards hindus in their churches,use of bad language to describe hindu customs and traditions inside chrurch is not what missionaries are supposed to do...

---------- Post added at 11:21 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:21 PM ----------

To my Knowledge Maoist are Atheist............

and that makes them most lethal as they can kill anyone(even fellow atheist)