Stop demeaning Indian soldiers

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

I agree with your assessment but we outsmarted them in a lot of theaters this was because of a better strategy not demeaning them. We can better strategize if we take the inherent superiority bias out.

kv

Indian army engineered change in demographics via masscres, mass-rape, and intimidation.

1947, they massacred 1 million Punjabi Muslims to deny Pakistan 7 Muslim majority regions of Punjab. Those militias were armed by Indians and supported fully by them. British gave them political cover.

Shortly thereafter the whole Muslim population of Jammu was massacred and Hindu settlers from Gujurat and such places were invited in. South Kashmir has been going through population change for 73 years.

One of the most egregious cases are the mass-rapes of Kunan and Poshpura, where girls as young as elementary school age, up to elderly frail grandmothers were raped in a organized fashion by Indian soldiers.

Not one Indian soldier has been charged.

Once lockdown clears, we will get an even better idea of the mass rape and torture going on after the recent re-invasion of Kashmir.

 

[Khan vilatey]

I have never seen an Indian poster demeaning Pakistan's soldiers here on PDF. On other platform it happens from both sides. But atleast on PDF, Indians shows respect for Pakistani soldiers.

And you talked about Kargil, don't ever forget Indian army gave honor to all "shaheed" Pakistani soldiers who left behind.

Indians making fun of our religion and soldiers is common. I can quote multiple examples of this ............. I just think it’s not right for us to do so.

this thread is not about Kargil but happy to have a conversation about that in another thread.

the point I was making was that calling names blunts our argument. Which over time creates a narrative of weakness. This in the longer run introduces superiority bias in strategy. This weakens the discourse. Leading to inferior I stratgey.

kv

 

[macnurv]

I share your pain and respect your decision. I personally feel that we blunt our point of view when we call them names. This belittles our argument.

kv

This is not the only thing you said, you tried to draw a false equivalent here. Furthermore this is not Oxford Debates, where one must refrain from calling names, although this whole civility is over rated. Things need to be called out for what they are, a Nazi is a nazi so is a rapist and a murderer. There are no two ways about it.

 

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

Will any person deride anyone calling Nazis as evil mass-murdering criminal fascists?

They same applies to Indians, who aspire to Nazism, but lack the strength of resolve and efficiency which Nazis had.

 

[macnurv]

Indians making fun of our religion and soldiers is common. I can quote multiple examples of this ............. I just think it’s not right for us to do so.

That is the only thing I agree with, ones religious views are no one elses business as long as they are not being enforced on others or are contradicting law of the land. But that is a debate for another topic.

 

[The BrOkEn HeArT]

They are not fake, nor are they stories. The Indian army themselves have punished service members for their crimes. I feel this is a drop in the ocean from what actually goes on. Unfortunately this does not give us the right to demean

kv

If Army punished some service men for this crime, it proves that this is not army policy.

 

[Khan vilatey]

This is not the only thing you said, you tried to draw a false equivalent here. Furthermore this is not Oxford Debates, where one must refrain from calling names, although this whole civility is over rated. Things need to be called out for what they are, a Nazi is a nazi so is a rapist and a murderer. There are no two ways about it.

I agree and in future I will curate it better Occupational forces are always atrocious .

I do agree that the Indians are especially cruel. one day we will avenge all this.

Kv

 

[crankthatskunk]

Let me spell out my point of view, as clearly and precisely as possible.

1- The approach suggested by the thread starter is speak of defeatist mindset. Before people object let me explain. If we do what is asked, we would be demeaning our soldiers. How ! It will become clearer in a minute.

2- For far too long Pakistanis and Pakistani army had been tolerating unbearable attitude of Indians and their army. I will just give one example, General Bipin.

3- Pakistan has lost precious ground creating their narrative in the world. Because they always took the approach demanded by the poster. If you look at the world opinion, Pakistanis look aggressors and Indians are the one on the receiving ends. Nothing further from the truth, the main reason for hostilities between India and Pakistan is Kashmir. And those who are in the know, know that India is not only in the wrong but is an aggressor and occupier.

4- The masses around the world are swayed away by the lies of Indian media and to some extent by the International media. We need to put our foot down. Expose the lies of Indians, Indian military and Indian media. We should take them to the cleaners in every argument and in every aspect.

5- It is about time, we stop dithering and showing that we are the nice guys. Our reputation had been sullied due to our inaction and in many cases because of our Politicians trying to please the Indian politicians, state etc. No more, we should go on offensive and take Indian head on.

6- Lastly, Kargil victory is an absolutely lie. Most of the prominent peaks in Kargil except Tiger Hill are still in Pakistani hands. Kargil was a resounding victory for Pakistan. If it wasn't for traitor Nawaz who was swayed by the pressure applied by the Clinton, we would have dealt a massive blow to the Indians, militarily and to their psyche.

 

[macnurv]

They same applies to Indians, who aspire to Nazism, but lack the strength of resolve and efficiency which Nazis had.

I would disagree with last part, Yes they are clearly trying to be Nazis but it would be a mistake to assume that they lack the resolve or efficiency, BJP had successfully transformed India into this neo facist state. To name few problems in fulfilling their agenda are: Size of India, diversity within India and inherent caste system not to mention their incompetence. But do not underestimate them, they are fully capable of sending 220 million Indian muslims to gas chambers.

 

[Khan vilatey]

If Army punished some service men for this crime, it proves that this is not army policy.

Again I disagree. There are recorded incidents of organized rape and mass deportations in Kashmir by the Indians. This was and is Indian policy. Article 360 is the latest manifestation of this policy.
If you believe this is not the case why don’t you move 300k troops of 700 k troops out of the valley and against China.

the Indian presence in Kashmir is an occupational force.

kv

 

[Khan vilatey]

Let me spell out my point of view, as clearly and precisely as possible.

1- The approach suggested by the thread starter is speak of defeatist mindset. Before people object let me explain. If we do what is asked, we would be demeaning our soldiers. How ! It will become clearer in a minute.

2- For far too long Pakistanis and Pakistani army had been tolerating unbearable attitude of Indians and their army. I will just give one example, General Bipin.

3- Pakistan has lost precious ground creating their narrative in the world. Because they always took the approach demanded by the poster. If you look at the world opinion, Pakistanis look aggressors and Indians are the one on the receiving ends. Nothing further from the truth, the main reason for hostilities between India and Pakistan is Kashmir. And those who are in the know, know that India is not only in the wrong but is an aggressor and occupier.

4- The masses around the world are swayed away by the lies of Indian media and to some extent by the International media. We need to put our foot down. Expose the lies of Indians, Indian military and Indian media. We should take them to the cleaners in every argument and in every aspect.

5- It is about time, we stop dithering and showing that we are the nice guys. Our reputation had been sullied due to our inaction and in many cases because of our Politicians trying to please the Indian politicians, state etc. No more, we should go on offensive and take Indian head on.

6- Lastly, Kargil victory is an absolutely lie. Most of the prominent peaks in Kargil except Tiger Hill are still in Pakistani hands. Kargil was a resounding victory for Pakistan. If it wasn't for traitor Nawaz who was swayed by the pressure applied by the Clinton, we would have dealt a massive blow to the Indians, militarily and to their psyche.

I completely agree with your post. I just think calling them names blunts our arguments. Assume they are efficient and effective and don’t come to their level by making fun of their religion or capacity

kv

 

[The BrOkEn HeArT]

Again I disagree. There are recorded incidents of organized rape and mass deportations in Kashmir by the Indians. This was and is Indian policy. Article 360 is the latest manifestation of this policy.
If you believe this is not the case why don’t you move 300k troops of 700 k troops out of the valley and against China.

the Indian presence in Kashmir is an occupational force.

kv

Do you have any UN or reliable source to back up your claim?

 

[Khan vilatey]

Do you have any UN or reliable source to back up your claim?

Yes I do, I think there was a report from the Indian human rights commission and a lot from amnesty international

kv

 

[PradoTLC]

From where you gets these all fake stories?

international press, amnesty international , human rights watch , US state department etc

 

[Jackdaws]

Let me spell out my point of view, as clearly and precisely as possible.


6- Lastly, Kargil victory is an absolutely lie. Most of the prominent peaks in Kargil except Tiger Hill are still in Pakistani hands. Kargil was a resounding victory for Pakistan. If it wasn't for traitor Nawaz who was swayed by the pressure applied by the Clinton, we would have dealt a massive blow to the Indians, militarily and to their psyche.

Lol. Kargil was a complete military and diplomatic victory for India. What pressure by Clinton? Clinton didn't go to Pak. Your Sartaj Aziz first came to India asking for a face saving exit. And when shown the door, your PM ran to Clinton. Should have stayed and fought if you were winning.