STOP AHMEDI BASHING

[K-Xeroid]

A person who call himself Sunni muslim and trying to prove Ahmedi a Muslim should better try to prove them muslims according to the teachings of Quran and Sunnah. I don't care who you are, Unless you don't talk sense, you are a jerk for me. PEACE

 

[sur]

I am sick and tired of all this Ahmedi Bashing on PDF.... I am a Sunni Muslim and I may not share your religious beliefs but I respect your right to choose your Faith and stand by you to protect your God Given Rights.

Exactly what I've been trying. I am also what is known as Sunni. But I don't like such titles. I am just a Muslim. And I don't call Ahmadis non-Muslims. They ar as muslim as Shia, Brailvi, Wahabi etc etc. They are deviated in some issues , & so are brailvis, shais, wahabis etc etc.


They believe as Massiah a guy whom I consider a false-Massiah/Prophet whatever it is that he claimed to be. But I don't consider Ahmadis, Shia, Brailvi, Wahabi, etc etc etc a non-muslim. They are ALL muslim. All have their own share of mis-conceptions. It was a political move by Bhutto. There are sects who are perverted on more crucial issues of islam than massiah-hood. They aren't declared non-muslims, then WHY should Ahmadis be. I found Ahmadis to have best of character compared to average muslims belonging to other sects. They are better in practising Islam. They are more educated in general too. Have better understanding of islam, except for, of-course, the messiah-hood.

Here are some of my posts on topic.

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http://www.defence.pk/forums/nation...imran-khan-s-naya-pakistan-3.html#post4237129 -1

http://www.defence.pk/forums/nation...imran-khan-s-naya-pakistan-6.html#post4237954 -2

http://www.defence.pk/forums/nation...imran-khan-s-naya-pakistan-8.html#post4238100 -3

http://www.defence.pk/forums/social...r-threat-ahmadis-beaten-up-8.html#post4587554

http://www.defence.pk/forums/americ...rror-attacks-calgary-visit-2.html#post4343641

http://www.defence.pk/forums/senior...istan-post4261614.html?highlight=#post4261614

http://www.defence.pk/forums/nation...-ahmadis-qadianis-pakistan-3.html#post4003305

The day when Qadianis stop insisting on calling themselves Muslim ....

Who are you or Pakistani politicians or even so-called scholars to define a "Muslim" when Rusool-Allah himself has defined the term.

A person who call himself Sunni muslim and trying to prove Ahmedi a Muslim should better try to prove them muslims according to the teachings of Quran and Sunnah. I don't care who you are, Unless you don't talk sense, you are a jerk for me. PEACE

I am Sunni. & you are welcome. Read above links.

Babe , I said try to prove them Muslim according to Quran and Sunnah. I'm not discussing administrative matters as its non of business. neither I care anymore , Much of Ahmedis supports Imran Khan , Ask them why they trust Imran?

Administrative matters ...!!! akhaan khool keh waikh mai kee likhaya aay...
Maay kiyaa Links tay click karr, tainoo Quran Tay Sunnah hee nazar aay gi.


Ibraheim was a MUSLIM... Quran says so. He never talked of Rusool-Allah.
Jesus was a Muslim. Disciples of Jesus were Muslim=says Quran. Jaa moo tay pani daa chatta maar taay links wari wari dhaiyaan naal parh.



Below, Rusool-Allah in presence of Angel Jibrael gave us definition of who a "Muslim" is:
If you refuse to accept declaration of Rusool-Allah then remember Omar slit throat of a muslim who refused to accept judgement of Rusool-Allah. Remember...!

Sahih Bukhari:Volumn 6, Book 60, Hadith Number 300.
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Narated By Abu Huraira : One day while Allah's Apostle was sitting with the people, a man(Gabriel in form of a man) came to him walking and said, "O Allah's Prophet. What is Belief(Eman)?" The Prophet said, "Belief is to believe in Allah, His Angels, His Books, His Apostles, and the meeting with Him, and to believe in the Resurrection." The man asked, " O Allah's Apostle What is Islam?" The Prophet replied, "Islam is to worship Allah and not worship anything besides Him, to offer prayers perfectly, to pay the (compulsory) charity i.e. Zakat and to fast the month of Ramadan." The man again asked, "O Allah's Apostle What is Ihsan (i.e. perfection or Benevolence)?" The Prophet said, "Ihsan is to worship Allah as if you see Him, and if you do not achieve this state of devotion, then (take it for granted that) Allah sees you." The man further asked, "O Allah's Apostle When will the Hour be established?"...



Bukhari:Volumn:1, Book 2, Hadith Number 47.
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Narated By Abu Huraira : One day while the Prophet was sitting in the company of some people, (The angel) Gabriel came and asked, "What is faith?" Allah's Apostle replied, 'Faith is to believe in Allah, His angels, (the) meeting with Him, His Apostles, and to believe in Resurrection." Then he further asked, "What is Islam?" Allah's Apostle replied, "To worship Allah Alone and none else, to offer prayers perfectly to pay the compulsory charity (Zakat) and to observe fasts during the month of Ramadan." Then he further asked, "What is Ihsan (perfection)?" Allah's Apostle replied, "To worship Allah as if you see Him, and if you cannot achieve this state of devotion then you must consider that He is looking at you." Then he further asked, "When will the Hour be established?" Allah's Apostle replied, "The answerer has no better knowledge than the questioner. But I will inform you about its portents.




Shia ascribe divine revelation to 12 people,, NOT JUST ONE BUT TWELVE... Why don't u move to declare them non-muslim in constitution. Some brailvis & shias intercede with graves, an activity described as Shirk in Quran. Shirk theonly un-forgivable sin. Why don't u move to declare brailvis a non-muslim. Wahabis have their fare share of perversions too, why don't u move to get them declared a non-muslim too...


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Watch from 4:00+. It was a political decision by sharabee=drunkard Bhuttoo.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qw2PwFd8wFg
Part of it is from program "Front Line – 4 April 2010"


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Ahmadis are at fault, just like grave-interceder-Brailvis are at fault, just like Shias are at fault when they say 12 imams receive divine revelation & that Ali split the moon, Just like Wahabis are gravely mistaken in certain things,,, BUT they are all Muslims

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yk28VTzEjjE

... Let me ask a question from you. Do you believe in End of Prophethood , That is an important parameter of Faith and If anyone deny this Parameter , would that be called Muslim or Not? I'm not using any Fatwa here , Just asking of Basics.

You have Mentioned a Hadees above , "I believe in ALLAH, in His Angels, His Books, His Prophets, the Day of Judgment, and in the fact that every thing good or bad (in the world) is pre-destined by ALLAH the Exalted, and in the resurrection after death."

And What His Books says :
"Muhammad is not the father of any man among you, but he is the Apostle of ALLAH and the Last of the Prophets". ( 33 : 40 ) Al-Quran.


The Last Prophet, Muhammad (s.a.w.w), has also explained this point in over two hundred Ahadith. For instance, the Messenger of ALLAH has taught:

"My position in relation to the prophets who came before me can be explained by the following example: A man erected a building and adorned this edifice with great beauty, but he left an empty niche in the corner where just one brick was missing. People looked around the building and marveled at its beauty, but wondered why a brick was missing from that niche. I am like unto that one missing brick and I am the last in the line of the Prophets". (Bukhari, Muslim, Musnad Ahmad, Tirmizi, Musnad Abu Dawud).

And what Prophet (S.A.W.W) Predicted?
"There will arise thirty impostors in my Ummah (followers) and each one of them will pronounce to the world that he is a prophet, but I am the last in the line of the Prophets of God and no Prophet will come after me". (Abu Dawood).

Do I believe in finality??? You didn't read my posts thoroughlly? It's all over my posts that I declare Mirza Ghulam a false prophet & Muhammad as final Prophet/Messenger. I do say that Ahmadis are WRONG but so are Brailvis, Shias, Wahabis etc... They are wrong in taking Mirza Ghulam as Massiah. BUT I don't see any evidence in Quran/Hadees that makes such ppl a non-Muslim.



I know all these quotes you wrote...Where in above references it proves that anyone who does NOT believe in finality of Prophet Muhammad is thrown out ot islam.??? ...

In fact Ahmadis DO believe in "Finality" but they interpret it differently. They believe in finality of scriptural-revelation.



If you read all my links thoroughly, I have answered your question already. The reason I quoted links was so that I don't have to go through the pain of typing same thing over & over again.Quran says Muhammad is last prophet BUT does it say if anyone doesn't believe in the word "LAST" is a non-Muslim??????????????



Quran saying that Muhammad is last prophet is same as Quran saying don't lie, don't steal, don't rape, don't kill.... But if someone kills, rapes, lies, steals, we don't declare them non-Muslims. We tell them that what they are doing is WRONG & against teachings of Quran ...
They pretty much stay muslims as long as they believe Muhammad-ur-Rusool-Allah.




To declare Ahmadis non-Muslims, you have to produce EXPLICIT declaration in Quran or Prophet's sayings that one who does not believe in "Finality" is a non-muslim....




A Muslim is, one who believes in Prophet Muhammad as a prophet. Go read your pehlaa-Kalima... & Ahmadis do that. So they become a muslim.

Is that discussion is about Barelvi , Wahabbi and Shia or The topic is specific to Qadyani ?

&Who said it was about Brailvis & Shia? Do you understand in reasoning we give examples, comparing their beliefs to what Ahmadis do. So you understand Ahmadis are NOT any more wrong than SHIRK committed many other sects.

Your Arguments about Shirk is Right and Specially pointed towards Barelvis , But Mate you do accept that Barelvis were in majority of our population since our nation's creation , They make atleast 70% at that time even during 70's when Qadyanis were declared Non-muslims officially it cannot be possible without an overwhelming support of barelvis . May be today they are in Majority and have enough strength to dictate our religious policy on national level , they actually administrate us .
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So you agree that it was political, might is right thing...


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...Why don't you try and stop the Taliban from calling themselves muslims? or al Qaeda ?...

Here's a Hadees to that effect: Kind of.

It was narrated from Abu Hurairah that the Messenger of Allah said:“Whoever bears weapons against us is not one of us.”
Sunan Ibn Majah:English ref:Vol. 3, Book 20, Hadith 2575,,, Arabic ref:Book 20, Hadith 2673

 

[K-Xeroid]

I am Sunni. & you are welcome. Read above links.

Babe , I said try to prove them Muslim according to Quran and Sunnah. I'm not discussing administrative matters as its non of business. neither I care anymore , Much of Ahmedis supports Imran Khan , Ask them why they trust Imran?

 

[TheFlyingPretzel]

As a Muslim (a weak one albeit) my reservations are strictly textual. The Prophet pbuh emphatically reminded the Muslims of his time that he was the final apostle in a long lineage of apostles, and that Islam was complete upon his arrival and the religion of Allah would see no future prophetic missions. False prophets were to be killed and their followers too, unless they renounced their ways and sought forgiveness. Maslamah bin Ḥabib (aka Musalima Kazzab) was one such man, who, and whose followers, were destroyed and forgotten to time.

Contrastingly, men who claim to be inspired by divinity but who do not associate themselves with Islam do not fall under this category and, therefore, the followers of these men are to allowed the same status that all other dhimmis are given in an ideal Islamic state (jiziya and all... ). A good example of the latter, is Guru Nanak Singh. The followers of Sikhism, in Pakistan, are accorded the same constitutional rights that minorities of other prominent religions are given; namely those of practicing and preaching their religion, establishing places of worship and contributing to the national life of Pakistan. If only Ghulam Ahmed Qadian had decided to call his new religion anything other than Islam, his followers would have been free to live their lives the way they chose to and we would have one less problem today.

 

[Awesome]

I am talking about various threads that demean and vilify this community on PDF as well as other Pakistani Forums.

I for one find Ahmedi people better Muslims and better Pakistanis than most of us who claim to be Pakistani Muslims.

They are pious, support their commnunities generously and have been Patriotic Pakistanis.

We give more respect to those Taliban Scum Bags from Fata who wants to blow up our little children than we give to these people who do not attack us.

The only Pakistani Nobel Laureate was a Ahmedi and inspite of the insults we hurled on him, insisted to be buried in Pakistan.

We as a Nation and as a people have NO SHAME AND HONOUR.

Without being specific, I cannot agree or disagree with you. We support freedom of speech. You're free to present your argument and they are free to present theirs.

 

[Pakistanisage]

Pakistan in general is facing terrorism for the last 13 years or so. Compare the figures of Muslims killed in attacks on mosques and then see the figures of attack on Qadianis places of worship. So this argument of yours is wrong.

Sir, the majority of Worshippers killed in the Mosques in Pakistan were murdered by the same people , i.e. the Sunni Extremists.

 

[Skallagrim]

Why don't the Shias and Ahmadis stop calling themselves Shia or Qadiani? There should be some ruling against identifying with sects.

 

[Jaanbaz]

I am sick and tired of all this Ahmedi Bashing on PDF.

We Pakistanis are surrounded by Terrorism on a daily basis which emanates from our inherent lack of tolerance and yet we have not learnt any lessons.

I for one want to let my Pakistani and Global Ahmedi community know that I stand shoulder to shoulder with them to protect their lives , liberty and property and fight any that threaten time.

@Jaanbaz , @Pakistani Exile and other Ahmedis , I am a Sunni Muslim and I may not share your religious beliefs but I respect your right to choose your Faith and stand by you to protect your God Given Rights.

Corrupt politicians along with their mullah allies have made this country a hell to live. By inciting religious conflicts these disgusting creatures are showing their true colours and ignoring the real problems of Pakistan ie Terrorism, Poverty and Illiteracy.
first of all get rid of the labels of minorities and Muslims and Non-Muslims. Qaid-Azam wanted all of us to be Pakistanis regardless of our beliefs. I hope more and more Pakistanis start thinking like you and realise the biggest threat is not Ahmadis or Raw or Jews. The biggest threat are our own people who kill our soldiers, women and children. And their supporters who condone their terrorism by using the name of Islam.

Why don't the Shias and Ahmadis stop calling themselves Shia or Qadiani? There should be some ruling against identifying with sects.

Ahmadis don't call themselves Qadianis. Your argument is invalid because Sunnis call themselves Sunnis or Ahle Sunnah wal Jammah etc.

 

[Jaanbaz]

A person who call himself Sunni muslim and trying to prove Ahmedi a Muslim should better try to prove them muslims according to the teachings of Quran and Sunnah. I don't care who you are, Unless you don't talk sense, you are a jerk for me. PEACE

The fatwa is out by Mullah K-Xeroid. @Pakistanisage i suggest you never reveal you identity on this forum. Talibs are out to spew their hatred here too.

 

[faisal6309]

I am sick and tired of all this Ahmedi Bashing on PDF.

We Pakistanis are surrounded by Terrorism on a daily basis which emanates from our inherent lack of tolerance and yet we have not learnt any lessons.

I for one want to let my Pakistani and Global Ahmedi community know that I stand shoulder to shoulder with them to protect their lives , liberty and property and fight any that threaten time.

@Jaanbaz , @Pakistani Exile and other Ahmedis , I am a Sunni Muslim and I may not share your religious beliefs but I respect your right to choose your Faith and stand by you to protect your God Given Rights.

You may be a Sunni Muslim but you are supporting Qadiani people. Don't do that with a bunch of people. You will surely get your A$$ kicked.
There are many Molvi around us will abuse Qadian and their supporters. I am not a supporter of Qadiani people, but still I would say that people should stop bashing Qadiani people. Many Qadiani came to Pakistani after 14th August 1947. They have full right to do what they want but there are laws. They should stay in limits.
Also 5th grade fail movlvi should stay in limits. Like they say in different places to different people that Qadiani products ka boycott karo ye kafir han. Bhai agr aisy bat karo gay to hamary pas bhi bht sawal han aur phr tum jawab nai dy sako gay.
They should stay in limits and nothing will go wrong.

 

[forcetrip]

A person who call himself Sunni muslim and trying to prove Ahmedi a Muslim should better try to prove them muslims according to the teachings of Quran and Sunnah. I don't care who you are, Unless you don't talk sense, you are a jerk for me. PEACE

The day you issue a fatwa by declaring TTP or any Taliban who get people to blow themselves up as straight up Kafirs, that will be the day I will revisit your hypocritical stance on calling someone else a Kafir or a non muslim. Till then, enjoy your face.

 

[Jaanbaz]

Hazrat Mirza Tahir Ahmad sahib our late 4th Khalifa talks about the situation of Pakistan.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lTBMqoa5G0k

 

[Skallagrim]

Ahmadis don't call themselves Qadianis. Your argument is invalid because Sunnis call themselves Sunnis or Ahle Sunnah wal Jammah etc.

Yes...same should be applicable to 'Sunnis' too. I may be wrong but I have a notion that mainstream Muslims started calling themselves Sunni as soon as some people started identifying with sects, say Shiism etc. Average Bangladeshis don't even know that they are 'Sunni'.

 

[FCPX]

Pakistan should be a country for all of its citizens no matter what religion, sect, gender, or ethnicity they belong to and there should be no difference in the protection or rights of its citizens. Sadly thats not the case but thats also true in many countries in the world and the more the world ages the more people become intolerant and divided, its nothing to be proud or happy about.

Leave discussions on religion to the scholars of religion, as an individual you follow what you believe is best for you and surely you will get the results of that.

 

[Jaanbaz]

Yes...same should be applicable to 'Sunnis' too. I may be wrong but I have a notion that mainstream Muslims started calling themselves Sunni as soon as some people started identifying with sects, say Shiism etc. Average Bangladeshis don't even know that they are 'Sunni'.

I guess that is why Bangladesh is not going down like Pakistan. As long as people stay united then no worldwide conspiracy can destroy their country.