State Department Reprimanded Pakistan for Misusing F-16s, Document Shows

[SecularNationalist]

I don't understand why we are using these jets if we can't attack India from these jets.practically Americans can disable these jets during conflict and it's better to sell all f-16s or change terms of use otherwise sell it to other country.i can't believe that we compromised our security just because we wanted to fly f-16. Ridiculous.

but they have Bugs and Kill switches, they could have use it

Not really. We are not that stupid bugs and kill switch abilities are removed by upgrades from turkey and according to PAF customized requirements.
Anyway in the near future we will be self sufficient in aircraft production and almost all imported fighter jets will be from Russia and China. Uncle Sam can go **** himself. We will do whatever we feel appropriate without seeking anyone's consent. I am glad to say American influence in this region is almost over.

 

[Leviza]

Pakistan should have appointed a person on the money paid for these jets
So the money won’t be used in any connection which is against Pakistan interests at all

that money should sit in the bank as long as it’s not used and thier product which is f 16 is used by Pakistan

 

[Jackdaws]

So did Pak cross the LoC or it did not? If it did not, then what can the US do? They can fly the planes around in their own country. If it did cross the LoC or IB, then some agreement might be broken.

 

[Haris Ali2140]

So did Pak cross the LoC or it did not? If it did not, then what can the US do? They can fly the planes around in their own country. If it did cross the LoC or IB, then some agreement might be broken.

There is only one agreement. No chineses. That's it.

 

[Jackdaws]

There is only one agreement. No chineses. That's it.

"No Chineses"? What does that mean?

 

[Haris Ali2140]

"No Chineses"? What does that mean?

No Chinese near US equipment.

 

[The Eagle]

So did Pak cross the LoC or it did not? If it did not, then what can the US do? They can fly the planes around in their own country. If it did cross the LoC or IB, then some agreement might be broken.

if you really read the details, it was merely about deployment of F-16s other than designated Base(s). There is no mention or will never be, about the use of F-16s against India at all because such clause doesn't exist. Had it been the case, I am sure when the Indian Top Officials been in Washington for almost 3 days post 27th Feb, US would have heard them and embargoed us. The issue in Delhi is merely in regard to understand the fact and Modi Sarkar couldn't stop going low in an attempt to harm our interests. Speaking of going low; I do respect Modi's approach even if it is low because if it isn't done by enemy against us then who will do so? Perhaps, such complaints & going haywire in Washington by India, is natural & understood but on other hand, F-16s V/s India aren't the issue at all. We didn't buy Aim 120C5 for Talis at all nor for Afghan Air Force (if there is an air force).

 

[MastanKhan]

PAF has been busy marketing F-16s more than JF-17

@Mangus Ortus Novem

Hi

The US guards its product and its turf with extreme jealousy.

 

[SABRE]

There is only one agreement. No chineses. That's it.

No third party, what so ever. Though, this generally implies the Chinese.

 

[Mutakalim]

This alleged letter is clearly written to sooth the burning saffron Chaddiis. The F16s were meant to be used against India, they were used against them on 27th Feb, and they will be used against them in future. This is inconsequential, to say the least.

 

[MastanKhan]

those personnel on contrary were very happy proud and joyous that F16 shot down the Su30

this is a statement from a personal friend who belongs to PAF family and lives in PAF base



their issue is potential tech theft

NOT the use against India


Americans were proud that their platform shot down Russian best jet


why BVR against TTP?
think you meant laser guided bombs

Hi,

Off course they were happy---they were tired of indians bragging about the red flag exercize---.

 

[maximuswarrior]

Fanboys as ELITE MEMBERS, quite common these days.

You fail to see F-16, China assistance and JF17 from realistic point of view.

There was a time, when we were in US Bucket, India was in Russia’s. US gave us the best they had to offer but with strings and sanctions. But the point is ‘BEST’.

Now, we aren’t in their bucket, we are in China’s. What china currently has to offer best Is J-20. If China agrees on it, we can thus agree that Pak-China are indeed Friends more than just strategic Ally’s, if no J-20, then just strategic ally’s on mutual interests.
All the CPEC, the development, the historical assistance of China in history is no doubt proving, more than anyone else. But that doesn’t mean you start ‘BOOTLICKING’.

USA might be bad and clever at tables, but once you work with them, you reap the benefits just like KSA having F-15, UAEAF F-16E and others.

Instead of appreciating China’s moves as strategic gestures, people take it as gifts and ‘ahsan’ and forget the real motive that ‘PAKISTAN MUST AIM FOR 90-100% self reliance’ and keep all international options open rather siding with China completely that for the time being is an ally, what future holds, God knows.

Once Block 3 proves itself to be at par with Block 70 or 60 on multiple aspects, USA will definitely further negotiate with us on new F-16 B70 and viper procurements as thunder won’t leave a technological gap. This time it will be them who initiate the deal. Write it down...

Jab larka acha nai kamata, settled bai hota, larki walay reject kardete hain, lekin jab future mein wohi larka acha kamara hota hai well settled, larki walay ‘KAASH’ ‘KAASH’ karte phirtay hain. Sometimes khud hi propose karne ajatay hain.

Block 3 will already cover the aspects USA didn’t want us to get, Rafale will do that for India.

@MastanKhan @Mangus Ortus Novem

LOL Look who is taunting and handing out lectures. The guy who just became a member a few days ago. When you were running around in diapers I was a member of this forum and many others before this one. Don't lecture me. I have been on various Pakistani defence forums for the past few decades. Now buckle up because I am about to put you in a straightjacket.

I don't care about the elite member status. I didn't ask for it. Ask the moderators to take it away. I am not a fanboy. If I was a fanboy, I would be parroting the same popular rants like almost everyone else. Instead I have my own opinion and I don't care what anyone else thinks. There is a reason why you are butt hurt and arguing with me. It is because I speak my mind and oppose US worshipping. You are clearly a US lackey. People like you like to think that you can somehow salvage the relationship with the US. I am sorry for you, but you are past tense. Just give it up. No matter how hard you try it is over. Don't hate me for pointing out the obvious. Hate the USA which abandoned you in time of need.

Having said all of that, let me dissect each and every one of your arguments.

I am not failing to see anything. PAF has very clearly stated the reasons for pursuing JF-17 project as a JV with Chinese counterparts. It is to minimise reliance on F-16 which is prone to US sanctions and blackmail. JF-17 takes the threats of sanctions out of the equation. Of course there are many other reasons for producing the JF-17, but this is certainly the most important reason. So, if you have any beef with this realistic point of view you need to fight it out with PAF.

Best was back in the day. Not today in this day and age. The F-16 capability is outdated. The US has better Block F-16s with AESA radar which they haven't given to Pakistan. Also, I already know the history regarding which side we unfortunately chose back then. There is no need to school me on this.

I refuse to buy the argument that we are in any bucket. We are simply following our interests like any other nation would. The US ditched Pakistan high and dry so many times. Something you fail to understand and even fail to acknowledge. For me that is worse than "BOOTLICKING". You are your own enemy because you don't have the ability to differentiate between friend and foe. I don't lick anyone's boots. I simply acknowledge friends. China is a friend of Pakistan. It stood next to Pakistan in good and bad times. Your so-called friend USA accused and sanctioned Pakistan.

Your argument is bogus. The US looks at many aspects before selling hardware to nations. It is a bogus argument to claim that the US would sell their top of the line hardware if you work with them. Pakistan has sacrificed so much during the US WoT. What did it get apart from accusations and lies? Don't cite the example of KSA. The US knows the importance of KSA because they have a lot of oil resources and dollars. Secondly, KSA relies on US nexus for its interests and security requirements. How does Pakistan figure in any of that?

Let me blunt about Pakistan. Pakistan doesn't have the ability to develop on its own or be self-sufficient. Pakistan has historically had corrupt leaders and frankly speaking not a very educated and smart population. In short, we are not a mature nation. Pakistan needs the help of a mature nation like China. Since independence, what have Pakistani leaders achieved for their nation? Just stop making up excuses and sit back. You got nothing to complain here. China did you a favour when the rest of the world was ganging up and ready to take Pakistan apart.

Don't be a fool. You are not getting anything from the US. Let alone the most advanced F-16 Block 70. The US won't disturb its relationship with India to please Pakistan. You know how much the US has invested in India over the past decades? Pakistan is the mortal enemy of India. The US will do nothing to piss off its police officer of the region. LOL The JF-17 Block 3 will be better than F-16. Don't make the comparison between F-16 and JF-17. When the US makes the F-16 offer I will eat my words. Until then you have to eat yours.

JF-17 Block III is only the beginning. Pakistan will also procure a 5th gen fighter from China. You write that down...

 

[StormBreaker]

LOL Look who is taunting and handing out lectures. The guy who just became a member a few days ago. When you were running around in diapers I was a member of this forum and many others before this one. Don't lecture me. I have been on various Pakistani defence forums for the past few decades. Now buckle up because I am about to put you in a straightjacket.

I don't care about the elite member status. I didn't ask for it. Ask the moderators to take it away. I am not a fanboy. If I was a fanboy, I would be parroting the same popular rants like almost everyone else. Instead I have my own opinion and I don't care what anyone else thinks. There is a reason why you are butt hurt and arguing with me. It is because I speak my mind and oppose US worshipping. You are clearly a US lackey. People like you like to think that you can somehow still salvage the relationship with the US. I am sorry for you, but you are past tense. Just give it up. No matter how hard you try it is over. Don't hate me for pointing out the obvious. Hate the USA which abandoned you in time of need.

Having said all of that, let me dissect each and every one of your arguments.

I am not failing to see anything. PAF has very clearly stated the reasons for pursuing JF-17 project as a JV with Chinese counterparts. It is to minimise reliance on F-16 which are prone to US sanctions and blackmail. JF-17 takes the threats of sanctions out of the equation. Of course there are many other reasons for producing the JF-17, but this is certainly the most important reason. So, if you have any beef with this realistic point of view you need to fight it out with PAF.

Best was back in the day. Not today in this day and age. The F-16 capability is outdated. The US has better Block F-16s with AESA radar which they haven't given to Pakistan. Also, I already know the history regarding which side we unfortunately chose back then. There is no need to school me on this.

I refuse to buy the argument that we are in any bucket. We are simply following our interests like any other nation would. The US ditched Pakistan high and dry so many times. Something you fail to understand and even fail to acknowledge. For me that is worse than "BOOTLICKING". You are your own enemy because you don't have the ability to differentiate friend from foe. I don't lick anyone's boots. I simply acknowledge friends. China is a friend of Pakistan. It stood next to Pakistan in good and bad times. Your so-called friend USA accused and sanctioned Pakistan.

Your argument is bogus. The US looks at many aspects before selling hardware to nations. It is a bogus argument to claim that the US would sell their top of the line hardware if you work with them. Pakistan has sacrificed so much during the US WoT. What did it get apart from accusations and lies? Don't cite the example of KSA. The US knows the importance of KSA because they have a lot of oil wealth and dollars. Secondly, KSA relies on US nexus for its interests. How does Pakistan figure in any of that?

Let me blunt about Pakistan. Pakistan doesn't have the ability to develop on its own or be self-sufficient. Pakistan has historically had corrupt leaders and frankly speaking not a very educated and smart population. In short, we are not a mature nation. Pakistan needs the help of a mature nation like China. Since independence, what have Pakistani leaders achieved for their nation? Just stop making up excuses and sit back. You got nothing to complain here. China did you a favour when the rest of the world was ganging up and ready to take Pakistan apart.

Don't be a fool. You are not getting anything from the US. Let alone the most advanced F-16 Block 70. The US won't disturb its relationship with India to please Pakistan. You know how much the US has invested in India over the past decades? Pakistan is the mortal enemy of India. The US will do nothing to piss off its police officer of the region. LOL The JF-17 Block 3 will be better than F-16. Don't make the comparison between F-16 and JF-17. When the US makes the F-16 offer I will eat my words. Until then you have to eat yours.

JF-17 Block III is on the beginning. Pakistan will also procure a 5th gen fighter from China. You write that down...

Look, your first 3 para were countering my first 4 words.

I apologize, if by any chance, you felt ‘humiliated’ which wasn’t the intention at all.

Your previous post was just too much of ‘China ye China wo’.

Remember, Thunder program is a great tool, which is not only good for war but on political tables. Block 3 thunder will need integration, at least 5-6 years. AESA will be a new thing, not any soon are we going to go battle on them.

BUT !!!

A wise country must always keep its chances open. USA is next door, in Afg, we are unsure if they really intend to leave or not. If latter be the case, we must stay careful. Try to keep them in check, not mess much. History has proved that we have never responded to USA backed Terrorism in Pakistan. Drone strikes in FATA are prime example. We can never do anything against them unless we are Turks !!!

So best is to maintain Ally status, use Block 3 as a tool to negotiate Block 70. After all, India has been disappointing USA in terms of MRCA. USA is gaining NOTHING from India’s friendship, be it Against China or Pak.

USA knows the importance of Pakistan, that’s why, it is constantly barking on CPEC. Uiyghur, Anti CPEC backing, all are works of USA against CPEC and Pakistan moving under umbrella of another superpower which fortunately happens to be a rival of USA.

Now, don’t think i am not Pro CPEC, nope, i really have high hopes through CPEC, the projects under it, industrial revolution of PAKISTAN. But, future is always uncertain.

 

[maximuswarrior]

Look, your first 3 para were countering my first 4 words.

I apologize, if by any chance, you felt ‘humiliated’ which wasn’t the intention at all.

Your previous post was just too much of ‘China ye China wo’.

Remember, Thunder program is a great tool, which is not only good for war but on political tables. Block 3 thunder will need integration, at least 5-6 years. AESA will be a new thing, not any soon are we going to go battle on them.

BUT !!!

A wise country must always keep its chances open. USA is next door, in Afg, we are unsure if they really intend to leave or not. If latter be the case, we must stay careful. Try to keep them in check, not mess much. History has proved that we have never responded to USA backed Terrorism in Pakistan. Drone strikes in FATA are prime example. We can never do anything against them unless we are Turks !!!

So best is to maintain Ally status, use Block 3 as a tool to negotiate Block 70. After all, India has been disappointing USA in terms of MRCA. USA is gaining NOTHING from India’s friendship, be it Against China or Pak.

USA knows the importance of Pakistan, that’s why, it is constantly barking on CPEC. Uiyghur, Anti CPEC backing, all are works of USA against CPEC and Pakistan moving under umbrella of another superpower which fortunately happens to be a rival of USA.

Now, don’t think i am not Pro CPEC, nope, i really have high hopes through CPEC, the projects under it, industrial revolution of PAKISTAN. But, future is always uncertain.

You are wrong. I didn't feel humiliated. I just set the record straight because your tone was condescending. Especially for someone who just joined this forum so recently. You cannot humiliate me even if you wanted to.

The only thing I am going to say in response to your post is that you are either naive or simply not aware of US duplicity. The US has only one goal in mind like they always have. They are not here to make any friends or acknowledge the importance of Pakistan. They are here to exploit and sow chaos. Only a fool would have faith in the US. The US has exploited, killed and devastated Pakistan. After so much treachery only a mad person would want to have a relationship with a country like the US. Don't be that mad person.

The US cares only about two things:

- Balkanising Pakistan among ethnic and religious fault lines to control strategically important areas
- Denuclearising Pakistan

That is it. They have no other interest in Pakistan. None whatsoever.

 

[StormBreaker]

You are wrong. I didn't feel humiliated. I just set the record straight because your tone was condescending. Especially for someone who just joined this forum so recently. You cannot humiliate me even if you wanted to.

The only thing I am going to say in response to your post is that you are either naive or simply not aware of US duplicity. The US has only one goal in mind like they always have. They are not here to make any friends or acknowledge the importance of Pakistan. They are here to exploit and sow chaos. Only a fool would have faith in the US. The US has exploited, killed and devastated Pakistan. After so much treachery only a man person would want to have a relationship with a country like the US.

The US still cares only about two things:

- Balkanising Pakistan among ethnic and religious faultiness to control strategically important areas
- Denuclearising Pakistan

That is it. They have no other interest in Pakistan. None whatsoever.

I fully understand the mischieves of USA.
USA exploited Pakistan because we were needy THEN.

Not the case now buddy, we are self-reliant, at least by the means of China and others. We don’t give a sh*t to USA. But the thing is, USA’s relationship with respect to Subcontinent is SINGLE atm. We can, by our conditions, get them towards us in terms of economic developments, investments (not the b***h NGOs rather tech companies) and this time all of this should be just as an option, not a need. Aqal thekanay par ajaegi. But then again, it’s their choice.

However, probability is quite low.
Even if we manage to get them on good terms, who knows in future, maybe, they will try to play with CPEC projects to create unstability and weaken Pak China relations.

As for me being new on this forum, that doesn’t matter at ALL. I bet, there could be some people on this forum, with either 1 or 10 posts, who don’t even talk, and are far big brains than all of us combined. But they prefer silence.