Featured SSK Agosta 90B Class Attack Submarine Information Pool

[HRK]

*(Repost )

Save it for rainy days:
Net official development assistance and official aid received (current US$) | Data | Table

'Save it for a rainy days' bold claim let see

First this link lead us to this DATA:

What this data is?

its a concessional loan of World Bank for 'Development Assistance', so its used in economic development of country, detail of it can be review at:

http://webnet.oecd.org/dcdgraphs/CPA_recipient/

Just take India as an example:

now plz prove your point that 'International Assistance can be used for the purpose other than it is granted as per your initial claim about Pakistan' which is as under:

Pakistan is getting more aid than bigger India does.
And part of that money goes for Arms purchase..

Now this post of your contain two points:

1- Pakistan is getting more aid than bigger India does.

Attached are the two tables to enhance your knowledge

1- Tabel from the briefing of UK Parliament

http://www.parliament.uk/briefing-papers/SN05578.pdf%E2%80%8E

2- Tabel from the Reserve Bank of India Website amount of External Assistance is around $170,636 Million

please post your data showing Pakistan got more 'Foreign Assistance or Grant' then India to prove your point


Your second point is "And part of that money goes for Arms purchase"

as requested earlier support your claim with relevant data, but again to enhance your knowledge following is an interesting information regarding India

above mention table shows that Indian Defence Expenditures contributed around 43.16% during the period 1980-81 till 2013-14 & 44.92% during the period 2000-2001 till 2013-14 in Indian Gross Fiscal Deficit which then financed through different Internal and External financial resources
Now save this post for rainy days

=====================================================

*For the Mod who deleted my post earlier without any justification or intimation is advised to visit the under mention thread & reply there before take any action here:

https://defence.pk/threads/why-only-my-post-deleted-from-the-thread.338893/

 

[The SC]

Would like to see another 3 Agosta 90-Bs plus the 6 Chinese Subs, All with AIP technology. That will make Pakistan navy an awesome force to reckon with.

Karachi Dockyard

MESMA AIP

 

[Imran Khan]

Would like to see another 3 Agosta 90-Bs plus the 6 Chinese Subs, All with AIP technology. That will make Pakistan navy an awesome force to reckon with.

Karachi Dockyard
View attachment 133991

MESMA AIP
View attachment 133992

sir jee it will take 10 years + to induct more three and that time they will not be state of the art . forget it now

 

[The SC]

sir jee it will take 10 years + to induct more three and that time they will not be state of the art . forget it now

10 years is much time, I thought it could be done in 5 or 6 years maximum, giving it 2 years each. The Agosta 90-B is state of the art today, and improvements can be implemented on new ones to stay on top of recent technological advancement.
Anyhow, the knowledge and manufacturing base is there if the Pakistani authorities decide to go for other Agosta 90-Bs at anytime.
I have heard a lot of interesting things about the coming Qing class Subs, including the all electric propulsion with AIP and some pretty heavy tonnage.

 

[narcon]

After 5 years of above news, till today, how many Agosta got sold by Pakistan?

 

[Zarvan]

10 years is much time, I thought it could be done in 5 or 6 years maximum, giving it 2 years each. The Agosta 90-B is state of the art today, and improvements can be implemented on new ones to stay on top of recent technological advancement.
Anyhow, the knowledge and manufacturing base is there if the Pakistani authorities decide to go for other Agosta 90-Bs at anytime.
I have heard a lot of interesting things about the coming Qing class Subs, including the all electric propulsion with AIP and some pretty heavy tonnage.

We need to induct one improved version more and for 6 Submarines which can fire ballistic and cruise missiles from China

 

[Imran Khan]

10 years is much time, I thought it could be done in 5 or 6 years maximum, giving it 2 years each. The Agosta 90-B is state of the art today, and improvements can be implemented on new ones to stay on top of recent technological advancement.
Anyhow, the knowledge and manufacturing base is there if the Pakistani authorities decide to go for other Agosta 90-Bs at anytime.
I have heard a lot of interesting things about the coming Qing class Subs, including the all electric propulsion with AIP and some pretty heavy tonnage.

no sir jee making and induction these took 12 years so i must say 2 years less which we have TOT time . so its 9 to 10 sir jee for fully induct in service we sign contract at 21 September 1994 and last sub PNS hamza enter in service at sep2008

We need to induct one improved version more and for 6 Submarines which can fire ballistic and cruise missiles from China

our navy has no budget for it sir its strategic project for countries like us not daily basics liek US-CHINA our last submarine was inducted dome 6 years ago now wait some 5 more years before something happen on ground . FYI AIP is being installed and subs are refitted now like now .

 

[aliaselin]

not that i heard of, anechoic tiles reduce signature, niose level. Please elaborate your point.

Let‘s give it as a simple model：for every kinds of wave noise, it is a spectrum but not a spike. For different areas of the global oceans, the background noise is different. Now we have two types of materials for tiles, one is optimized for North Sea near Europe, and can decrease the feature noise made by submarine with the background for 95%, however, when we move it to another areas, the background noise changed, and correspondingly feature noise made by submarine changed with this background, such as the Indian Ocean, and let say it can only reduce the noise for 60%; for the other type of material for tile it can reduce full spectrum of noise for 75%, no matter in North Sear or Indian Ocean.
For SSK, due to its small size, such as Type 214 or Scorpène, it can use only one layer of tiles, so the producer will optimize it to fit with their own Navy's need, and this is why Korea Navy and Royal Malaysia Navy found that their bought submarines have much larger noise than the producer given value. While nuclear submarine, due to its large size, it can have three layers of tiles and choose the second type materials, and correspondingly, it can reduce noise for 98.5% no matter where it arrives.

 

[Dazzler]

Let‘s give it as a simple model：for every kinds of wave noise, it is a spectrum but not a spike. For different areas of the global oceans, the background noise is different. Now we have two types of materials for tiles, one is optimized for North Sea near Europe, and can decrease the feature noise made by submarine with the background for 95%, however, when we move it to another areas, the background noise changed, and correspondingly feature noise made by submarine changed with this background, such as the Indian Ocean, and let say it can only reduce the noise for 60%; for the other type of material for tile it can reduce full spectrum of noise for 75%, no matter in North Sear or Indian Ocean.
For SSK, due to its small size, such as Type 214 or Scorpène, it can use only one layer of tiles, so the producer will optimize it to fit with their own Navy's need, and this is why Korea Navy and Royal Malaysia Navy found that their bought submarines have much larger noise than the producer given value. While nuclear submarine, due to its large size, it can have three layers of tiles and choose the second type materials, and correspondingly, it can reduce noise for 98.5% no matter where it arrives.

thanks for the detailed post, this is something only a PN person especially a submariner could tell you so prodominantly it remains classified. However, concerning minute technical details, the merlin ssk proposal for PN in place of U-214, they disclosed that PN personnel were very keen on minor design aspects of the platform such as anechoic layers, even the number of propeller blades.

 

[The SC]

no sir jee making and induction these took 12 years so i must say 2 years less which we have TOT time . so its 9 to 10 sir jee for fully induct in service we sign contract at 21 September 1994 and last sub PNS hamza enter in service at sep2008 .

You are right, But that was starting from scratch! Which won't be the case now.

 

[rockstar08]

10 years is much time, I thought it could be done in 5 or 6 years maximum, giving it 2 years each. The Agosta 90-B is state of the art today, and improvements can be implemented on new ones to stay on top of recent technological advancement.
Anyhow, the knowledge and manufacturing base is there if the Pakistani authorities decide to go for other Agosta 90-Bs at anytime.
I have heard a lot of interesting things about the coming Qing class Subs, including the all electric propulsion with AIP and some pretty heavy tonnage.

not Qing , but improved Yuan , or i think its s20 ...

 

[The SC]

not Qing , but improved Yuan , or i think its s20 ...

This is why I think it is the (type 41) Qing class:

China Displays World’s Largest Conventional Submarine
State media report that China’s new Type 032 Qing-class submarine was displayed at an expo last week.

China’s state-run media is reporting that Beijing publicly displayed what is believed to be the largest conventional submarine in the world last week.

According to Want China Times, which cited a Chinese-language report in the state-run Guangming Daily, China’s new Type 032 Qing-class test submarine was on display last week at the Sixth Shipping Expo held in Guangdong province in southern China from June 6 to June 8. IHS Jane’s also noted the report was carried in China’s state media outlets.

The Type 032 submarine first came to foreign analysts’ attention in 2010 when pictures emerged on the Chinese internet of the vessel in a Wuhan-based shipyard (at that time, some began calling it a Type 043 submarine, causing some confusion).

According to Global Security, development of the submarine began in early 2005 followed by construction in 2008. Construction was completed in 2010, and sea trials ended in the fall of 2012. It entered PLA service in October of that same year, and testing commenced in 2013.

For some time now, defense analysts have believed that the Type 032 has a surfaced displacement of 3,797 tonnes and a submerged displacement of 6,628 tonnes. The new reports in China’s state media confirm this. According to IHS Jane’s, the new reports say that the Type 032 is “a 3,797 tonne vessel that can carry a crew of 200 sailors and researchers. It is said to be 92.6 m long with a height of 17.2 m.” This displacement makes it the world’s largest diesel-electric submarine.

From the initial images in 2010, analysts noted that the vessel possessed a large sail and under-hull extension. From this, they speculated that the Type 032 was being developed to eventually replace China’s Type 031 test submarine, which was built in the 1960’s based off the Soviet-designed Golf-class submarines. This was later confirmed.

The Type 031 never reached operational capacity but has been used by China to test its submarine-launched ballistic missiles (SLBM): the JL-1 and more recently the JL-2. Because of this, many believe that the Type 032 submarine will carry China’s new JL-2 SLBMs, and therefore could contribute to China’s nascent undersea nuclear deterrent. According to the U.S. military, China is on the verge of fielding its first credible undersea deterrent in the form of the Type-094 (Jin-Class) nuclear-powered ballistic missile submarines (SSBN), which will also be equipped with the JL-2 SLBM.

At this point, the Type 032 would be utilized merely to continue testing the SLBMs, as well as other sea-launched missiles. However, if China orders more additional units — which some claim it already has — this would indicate that Beijing may intend to use the new diesel-electric subs to augment the Type 094 SSBNs in providing China with a sea-based deterrent.

At the same time, the Type 032 could be used for a variety of different missions. The IHS Jane’s story cited unspecified reports as saying that the new subs could be configured to deploy underwater drones as well as PLA special forces. The Type 032’s two vertical launching systems could also be used to launch a number of different missiles. Besides the JL-2 SLBM, these other missiles could include the CJ-20A anti-ship cruise missile and YJ-18 anti-ship missile. Indeed, some analysts believe that China will use the Type 032 subs, at least in part, as another “carrier killer” weapon. The Type 032 also carry torpedoes and could therefore be used to harass surface vessels and other submarines.

China Displays World’s Largest Conventional Submarine | The Diplomat

 

[The SC]

Pakistan in Deal To Buy Chinese Subs: Report
Pakistan in Deal To Buy Chinese Subs: Report | Defense News | defensenews.com

Pakistan Navy Seeks 6 Joint-development Submarines From China

Sponsored Links

Pakistan is planning of buying six more submarines with options for joint development of future submarines with China. The reason for that is, because Pakistan is seeking for ways to strengthen its under-sea warfare capabilities.
For now it is unknown what the class of the submarines is, but according to anonymous information Islamabad required an advanced under-sea vessel with air independent propulsion (AIP) system. This system will give the submarine the capability of staying submerged for longer and operating noiselessly.
The federal Cabinet of China was asked by the Defence Ministry to approve the purchase of the submarines in order to counter the “rising threats” for Pakistan. At the moment the Pakistan Navy has five active diesel electric submarines and 3 midget submarines. The submarines include Agosta-90b which are going to be equipped with MESMA AIP system, and Agosta-70.
Pakistan’s Defence Ministry informed the Cabintet for the force imbalance in the country’s Navy when it comes to the number of ships and submarines used in the fleet. The Navy is planning to acquire six AIP conventional submarines which will be able to operate in multi-threat environment under tropical conditions. After this deal is approved, the Pakistan Navy and China Shipbuilding and Offshore Corporation are expected to sign a contract for the joint development and production of submarines.
The “urgent naval requirements” aren’t discussed for the first time as they were an issue discussed by President Asif Ali Zaradari during his visit to China in 2009. This problem was also discussed during Chinese Premier Wen Jiabao’s visitation to Pakistan in December 2010.
The Naval Headquarters are pursuing the purchase of submarines from Chinese authorities due to the fact that they will receive full firm support for the submarine project. According to the proposed contract, four submarines will be manufactured at a Chinese Shipyard while the other two will be constructed in Pakistan.
The Co-development will not only include projecting and manufacturing, but also training of Pakistani personnel, upgrades of Pakistan Navy’s shipyard and other things. At the moment Pakistan is finalizing a deal of inducting 36 J-10 fighter aircraft from China in a deal which has an estimated worth of over USD 1.4 billion.

Islamabad and Beijing are also collaborating to build an advanced fighter — JF-17 Thunder.

Pakistan Navy Seeks 6 Joint-development Submarines From China | ASIAN DEFENCE NEWS

 

[The SC]

India is now warily assessing reports that Pakistan is seeking the lease of a nuclear powered submarine from China to match India’s acquisition of a nuclear attack submarine from Russia. As India develops its under-water deterrent capability with the “Arihant” nuclear missile submarine, Pakistan is reportedly trying to build similar capability and asking for Chinese help. China and Pakistan have already signed a deal to build six conventional submarines in the shipyards of the two countries, but there is no official word on the nuclear dimension.

Chinese takeaway | The Indian Express

 

[naseebkhanniazi]

Pakistan in Deal To Buy Chinese Subs: Report
Pakistan in Deal To Buy Chinese Subs: Report | Defense News | defensenews.com

Pakistan Navy Seeks 6 Joint-development Submarines From China

Sponsored Links

Pakistan is planning of buying six more submarines with options for joint development of future submarines with China. The reason for that is, because Pakistan is seeking for ways to strengthen its under-sea warfare capabilities.
For now it is unknown what the class of the submarines is, but according to anonymous information Islamabad required an advanced under-sea vessel with air independent propulsion (AIP) system. This system will give the submarine the capability of staying submerged for longer and operating noiselessly.
The federal Cabinet of China was asked by the Defence Ministry to approve the purchase of the submarines in order to counter the “rising threats” for Pakistan. At the moment the Pakistan Navy has five active diesel electric submarines and 3 midget submarines. The submarines include Agosta-90b which are going to be equipped with MESMA AIP system, and Agosta-70.
Pakistan’s Defence Ministry informed the Cabintet for the force imbalance in the country’s Navy when it comes to the number of ships and submarines used in the fleet. The Navy is planning to acquire six AIP conventional submarines which will be able to operate in multi-threat environment under tropical conditions. After this deal is approved, the Pakistan Navy and China Shipbuilding and Offshore Corporation are expected to sign a contract for the joint development and production of submarines.
The “urgent naval requirements” aren’t discussed for the first time as they were an issue discussed by President Asif Ali Zaradari during his visit to China in 2009. This problem was also discussed during Chinese Premier Wen Jiabao’s visitation to Pakistan in December 2010.
The Naval Headquarters are pursuing the purchase of submarines from Chinese authorities due to the fact that they will receive full firm support for the submarine project. According to the proposed contract, four submarines will be manufactured at a Chinese Shipyard while the other two will be constructed in Pakistan.
The Co-development will not only include projecting and manufacturing, but also training of Pakistani personnel, upgrades of Pakistan Navy’s shipyard and other things. At the moment Pakistan is finalizing a deal of inducting 36 J-10 fighter aircraft from China in a deal which has an estimated worth of over USD 1.4 billion.

Islamabad and Beijing are also collaborating to build an advanced fighter — JF-17 Thunder.

Pakistan Navy Seeks 6 Joint-development Submarines From China | ASIAN DEFENCE NEWS

j10 deal ????? still