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Sri Lanka’s MRCA – MIG-29 vs JF-17 vs F-16

Indmaster aka chinese we want shri lanka to choose JF-17 so our mig-29 can test them.... am sure indian navy will go for kill. We dont want mig-29 in shri lanka force.... mig-29 can be deadly

Do you realize how stupid you fanboys sound? Why warmonger against Sri Lanka?

Made-in-China airplanes may undermine sales of Russian high quality jets

Russian and Chinese weapons manufacturers are clashing head on within the international arms market as China’s new fighter jet seems to be a cheaper imitation of the Russian original.
The argument is threatening to put on hold a multi-billion-dollar engines sale contract between the countries concerning the delivery of some hundreds Russian-made RD-93 engines needed for Chinese-Pakistani fighter jets called the FC-1.
The deal is facing opposition from Russian aircraft manufacturers, such as Mikhail Pogosyan, the head of the MiG and Sukhoi aviation holding, who said that the FC-1 is extremely close, if not the same, as the Russian-made MiG-29. Pogosyan claimed that FC-1 is a direct competitor to Russia's MiG-29 and the deal would incur losses for the Russian manufacturers.
A source quoted by the Kommersant newspaper said there are significant price differences keeping the US$10-million Chinese jets much cheaper than a $35-million Russian MiG-29.
Also, representatives from Russian Defense Export said that there was nothing wrong with re-exporting, which is in accordance with the decision of the Russian government. They added that there is no law that says there should be any agreement with Russian manufacturers citing the example of RD-33 that was re-exported to Egypt and was given permission by the Federal Service for Military and Technical Cooperation in 2007. These engines are sold to Bangladesh, Algeria and Saudi Arabia.
Ruslan Pukhov, the member of the Defense Ministry Public Council, disagrees with the officials.

Source: Made-in-China airplanes may undermine sales of Russian high quality jets — RT

.... Cheap JF-17 would be best for shri lanka. F-16 would make shri lanka slave of america....

Look who's talking...

Does that mean they should be slave to India instead? :lol:
 
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Shri lanka ?

What is that ?

Are you doing that on purpose or you don't know how to spell ?
 
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The RT news story was deemed wrong eons ago. Some dumbass reporter from Russia Today took RIA Novosti's(state owned news service and also a media output for Russian Defence Establishment) news story and added some masala to the news to make it more sensational. You can read from the RT article how unprofessional the article is, as it is saying, JFT is a copy/imitation of the MIG-29. Yellow Journalism at its best. Mikhail Pogosyan said never such a thing.

The Original Article from Ria Novosti Published around 3 hours before the RT took hold of it and butchered it.

Russian combat aircraft makers fear competition with China
Russian combat aircraft makers fear competition with China | Defense | RIA Novosti
20:07 05/07/2010

Russian aircraft makers MiG and Sukhoi have spoken against the sale of RD-93 jet engines to China citing the threat of strong competition from cheaper Chinese models of fighter aircraft.

Russia's state arms exporter Rosoboronexport planned to sign a contract with China on the delivery of 100 RD-93 engines for FC-1 fighters, which are direct competitors of the famed MiG-29 Fulcrum aircraft.

Mikhail Pogosyan, the head of the MiG and Sukhoi corporations, said the re-export of technologies must be approved by the original manufacturers to avoid unfair competition.

The FC-1 Xiaolong (Fierce Dragon) is a single-engine multi-role fighter aircraft developed jointly by China and Pakistan. It is designated as JF-17 Thunder by Pakistan.

A Russian aircraft industry source said the FC-1 is inferior to MiG-29 in performance, but sells for about $10 million, while the price of a MiG-29 is about $35 mln.

MiG-29s are currently competing with FC-1s in an Egyptian tender on the delivery of 32 fighters. In addition, Egypt has launched negotiations with Pakistan on the licensed production of FC-1 aircraft.

Russian Federal Service for Military-Technical Cooperation (FSMTC) approved the re-export of RD-93 engines to Egypt as part of the FC-1 fighter package in November 2007.

Rosoboronexport has said a decision to allow the re-export of technology could be made only by the government, and the manufacturers have never been consulted on the issue.

Russian weapons manufacturers are also facing increasing competition from China on other arms markets.

Russian S-300 and Chinese HQ-9 air defense systems have been competing in a Turkish tender since 2007.

Russian and Chinese armored personnel carriers competed in an Indonesian tender in 2007.

In 2009, Myanmar chose Russian Mig-29s over Chinese J-10s and FC-1s.

Russia has also accused China of producing its own copycat versions of some Russian-made weaponry, including the Su-27SK fighter jet, in violation of intellectual property agreements.
MOSCOW, July 5 (RIA Novosti)



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Same news with some Masala from RT(Russia Today). Inconsistencies, & Lies are Highlighted in Bold:


Made-in-China airplanes may undermine sales of Russian high quality jets
Made-in-China airplanes may undermine sales of Russian high quality jets
Published: 05 July, 2010, 22:52

Russian and Chinese weapons manufacturers are clashing head on within the international arms market as China’s new fighter jet seems to be a cheaper imitation of the Russian original.

The argument is threatening to put on hold a multi-billion-dollar engines sale contract between the countries concerning the delivery of some hundreds Russian-made RD-93 engines needed for Chinese-Pakistani fighter jets called the FC-1.

The deal is facing opposition from Russian aircraft manufacturers, such as Mikhail Pogosyan, the head of the MiG and Sukhoi aviation holding, who said that the FC-1 is extremely close, if not the same, as the Russian-made MiG-29. Pogosyan claimed that FC-1 is a direct competitor to Russia's MiG-29 and the deal would incur losses for the Russian manufacturers.

A source quoted by the Kommersant newspaper said there are significant price differences keeping the US$10-million Chinese jets much cheaper than a $35-million Russian MiG-29.

Also, representatives from Russian Defense Export said that there was nothing wrong with re-exporting, which is in accordance with the decision of the Russian government. They added that there is no law that says there should be any agreement with Russian manufacturers citing the example of RD-33 that was re-exported to Egypt and was given permission by the Federal Service for Military and Technical Cooperation in 2007. These engines are sold to Bangladesh, Algeria and Saudi Arabia.

Ruslan Pukhov, the member of the Defense Ministry Public Council, disagrees with the officials.
“If we follow this line of thinking, it will be very difficult to explain to a country like China that, after all these years of re-exporting, Russian-made engines are all of a sudden going to stop and make it a little bit more difficult,” Pukhov told RT.
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It's no Wonder only RT(Russia Today) has this half-truth news story. Stupid Journalists.
 
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Buy F-16 if FC-1 is no more into considerations..
 
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They are doing fine. Countries buy weapons because they can :D

There's something called facts and reality and there's also something called innocent or Unaware public.. not more than 30-32 JF-17 has been Inducted in PAF and you can see Results already.... even F-16 took its time to become a proven platform making other countries buy it... wonder.....

:offtopic:



Pakistan receives 50% of the revenue from FC-1 sales.

Sales to whom ??..... PAF ??.... The last time I checked CAC had prohibited the sale of any JF 17 to a 3rd party by Pakistan... for the next 10 years.... even If this were to be wrong what does Pakistan do to claim 50% make engines ??... make Radars ??... make Weapons ??.... makes Air frame ??....

Even on the Assembling part would the Aeronautical complex there be able to deliver additional orders for other airforces when its already struggling to meet the requirements of Its own Air Force ??.

Meh...



F-7s are no longer in production!

D'oh!

Depends on orders If the Order is Huge then It can be produced in the Host country itself by setting up an assembly line.[/QUOTE]
 
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Nepal bought some of them cheap.. and under pressure frm india.. according to their former COAS..Who also claimed it as junk as it JAMS... etc...and most were donations.

As for AK...its Pakistani while the chinese version with chinese sub system is being sold to bangladesh(profit will go to HIT aswell).... as for JF-17... Its being negotiated by egypt and 4 different countries are interested in it... as for ghazni or babur n the rest of ur bs ,... get lost... go calm the bhopal victims kid.


On topic... the price of a JFT is around 20-25 million... also the source of the news is a forum...

The Junk rifle performed better than the G3s which jammed after firing 5-6 rounds in Kargil... cold weather does affect assault rifle mechanism... the rifles didn't Jam but rather were firing Automatic while in 3 round burst mode.... while some crystal magazines also cracked thanks to the cold weather... other than that its a very good rifle in the other areas where its is not as cold.

The tanks sold to Bangladesh would be the Chinese Type 90 tanks why would they pay any thing to Pakistan ??.... any link with reasons for your ridiculous claim ??... as for JF-17 1st get it the orders of PAF fulfilled.... then talk of selling it to any other country.
 
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$30 mil for a light combat aircraft is not worth it

Tejas in Current version would not be available... And you would have to wait more than 8 years for mk 2 version sale to any country... besides that the weapon load of the Light aircraft exceeds that of JF-17 in current form... along with a better weapon package It also offers a better or comparable radar to that which F-16 would offer... along with that quadruple FBW controls, a better engine and a CFC airfarme not some aluminium alloy.
 
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There's something called facts and reality and there's also something called innocent or Unaware public.. not more than 30-32 JF-17 has been Inducted in PAF and you can see Results already.... even F-16 took its time to become a proven platform making other countries buy it... wonder.....

Just because it isn't proven does not mean it isn't technically feasible. I can even say the F-22 isn't proven, but it is potentially lethal. Of-course, both are a class apart.

Sales to whom ??..... PAF ??.... The last time I checked CAC had prohibited the sale of any JF 17 to a 3rd party by Pakistan... for the next 10 years.... even If this were to be wrong what does Pakistan do to claim 50% make engines ??... make Radars ??... make Weapons ??.... makes Air frame ??....

Even on the Assembling part would the Aeronautical complex there be able to deliver additional orders for other airforces when its already struggling to meet the requirements of Its own Air Force ??.

Making of turbo-fan engines, radars, EW suites, etc isn't exactly the point here. We both know that Pakistan does not have the necessary technological infrastructure to do all that. Even the engine has to be imported from Russia.

It is actually 50% of the profit to be correct, since Pakistan did contribute 50% of the development costs in the JF-17 program to begin with.

A joint development and production agreement was signed in June 1999, with China Aviation Import and Export Corporation (CATIC) and Pakistan each contributing 50% of the estimated $150 million in development costs. The design was finalized in 2001, with initial prototype flights beginning in 2003. A JF-17 did not fly with its full avionics suite until 2006, but testing and development appear to have progressed smoothly. Until political complications intervened.
Pakistan & China’s JF-17 Fighter Program
Joint Fighter-17 (JF-17) Thunder / Fighter China-1 (FC-1) Fierce Dragon

So does Pakistan benefit from FC-1 sales? The answer is yes. Even though they are actually made in China.

Depends on orders If the Order is Huge then It can be produced in the Host country itself by setting up an assembly line.

It's mainly reserved for export orders. Bangladesh recently ordered some. I don't think PLAAF is ordering any new F-7s. And besides, it's a very old platform. Not much market potential for it in the future. The future is the JF-17 and the J-10 through which China can exercise its power and influence.
 
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Just because it isn't proven does not mean it isn't technically feasible. I can even say the F-22 isn't proven, but it is potentially lethal. Of-course, both are a class apart.

Technically feasible on what means ??... and Is the infrastructure of the customer nation plus its industrial base strong enough to make it feasible ??.... F-22 have been in service for about more than 7 years with all that industrial background and infrastructure it still is facing problems and serviceability issues... JF-17 has barely managed 2-3 years of service... with weapon system and radar yet to be fully integrated... and proven in live firing air exercises with other combat planes.

Making of turbo-fan engines, radars, EW suites, etc isn't exactly the point here. We both know that Pakistan does not have the necessary technological infrastructure to do all that. Even the engine has to be imported from Russia.

It is actually 50% of the profit to be correct, since Pakistan did contribute 50% of the development costs in the JF-17 program to begin with.


Pakistan & China’s JF-17 Fighter Program
Joint Fighter-17 (JF-17) Thunder / Fighter China-1 (FC-1) Fierce Dragon

So does Pakistan benefit from FC-1 sales? The answer is yes. Even though they are actually made in China.


So whats the point here... what help did they give in developing the machine other than outlining their requirements and some help here and there in avionics and software... would you give 50% of the profit to some XYZ customer of yours who got a chair designed from your shop and added some parts to it.... while selling a same kind of Chair to some other MPQ customer which has no effort from the earlier customer.... exported JF-17 would be from CAC with Chinese avionics and weapon package... they might allow Pakistanis to make some business in case the customer demands Pakistani software etc... Its plain business Russia never shared any kind of profits with IAF/HAL while selling Su 30 variants modified on the basis Indian MKI... but yes they got some business for HAL guys who designed HUDs... LCDs mission computers., software etc... for those planes.


It's mainly reserved for export orders. Bangladesh recently ordered some. I don't think PLAAF is ordering any new F-7s. And besides, it's a very old platform. Not much market potential for it in the future. The future is the JF-17 and the J-10 through which China can exercise its power and influence.

F-16 is also an old platform... all depends on the requirements and demands of the buying country.... J-10 and JF-17 both would struggle to find the market unless they sort out engine related issues and provide more flexibility with the integration of weapon package and avionics suite... i.e. provide grounds for integration of weapon package and avionics from other nations and customize as per user demands till then no substantial order would be there for both the jets.... offcourse we can exclude Pakistan here.
 
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The Junk rifle performed better than the G3s which jammed after firing 5-6 rounds in Kargil... cold weather does affect assault rifle mechanism... the rifles didn't Jam but rather were firing Automatic while in 3 round burst mode.... while some crystal magazines also cracked thanks to the cold weather... other than that its a very good rifle in the other areas where its is not as cold.

The tanks sold to Bangladesh would be the Chinese Type 90 tanks why would they pay any thing to Pakistan ??.... any link with reasons for your ridiculous claim ??... as for JF-17 1st get it the orders of PAF fulfilled.... then talk of selling it to any other country.

The insas rifles quality has been explained many times... even by the nepalese army chief... how it jammed during fire fights with maoists... as for G3s its one of the most exported rifles in service with several european,asian and middleastern armies....

And wasnt it MBT-2000 tht is being exported to bd?correct me if im wrong..

As for JF-17s... its going to be produced in both china and Pakistan.
 
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