Spot-fixing/Match-fixing scandal

[Awesome]

I did not know that they talked about "Brad Pitt" and "Angelina" divorce.

But what's wrong with suspending a player when there are allegations backed with evidence like a) video-tape b) cell-phone with texts and c) Currency found in hotel room?

Suspensions are always issued pending investigation.

Plenty wrong. Using the same exam example I did, can I defer you getting conferred your doctorate degree by allegations?

IF their guilt is proven, then there is a very rightful treason charge (as filed in the LHC) waiting for them back home for which one of the extreme punishments might just be a death penalty as well.

But if we forgo the basics of justice, i.e., innocent until proven guilty, we're calling for a return the dark ages where the only law was the King's law.

 

[Pakistani_Athiest]

Asim,

Why would they take cash instead of check?

 

[Peregrine]

A blame for all this falls on PCB as well, its pretty obvious that it hasn't been vigilant at all, one needs to get the answers to the following questions from PCB
1. Who were these guys, who were talking to Hameed? and why were they allowed to talk to him. Hasn't PCB learned anything from this match fixing controversy?
2. Why are the players allowed to meet such agents or reporters without consulting any higher authorities in PCB.
3. Why don't they have any media advisors?

 

[Pakistani_Athiest]

IF their guilt is proven, then there is a very rightful treason charge (as filed in the LHC) waiting for them back home for which one of the extreme punishments might just be a death penalty as well.

But if we forgo the basics of justice, i.e., innocent until proven guilty, we're calling for a return the dark ages where the only law was the King's law.

You want a death-penalty for someone guilty of match fixing? HEHEHE. Take a chill pill bro. They are not getting any death penalty- they don't even deserve that.

I want to repeat myself here [I've already said this before] - they might not be guilty in a court of law. But, to most people with common-sense, they are guilty. The circumstantial evidence is pretty damning. Even if they are acquitted by a court, I would doubt them. 50k pounds of cash in a room is pretty damning.

Nobody shops around with that much cash anyway.

 

[Pakistani_Athiest]

Plenty wrong. Using the same exam example I did, can I defer you getting conferred your doctorate degree by allegations?

If you have reasonable evidence, I will have to go face a Disciplinary Action Committee before I get my degree yes. Here there is more than reasonable evidence -

a) The video
b) Cash found in someone's room

That alone should be enough to get a suspension until the case is investigated. It's just like "remanding" someone until hearing.

Suspensions always happen pending investigation.

Just google for suspended+pending+investigation

Google

 

[Speaker]

@Pakistani_Athiest:

Anecdotal evidence has definitely tainted these cricketers for life, and that is unfortunate in case they are innocent. It is more comforting to believe "even if a guilty man walks free, never should an innocent man be punished". Again, if the timing of the video cannot be established, the three must be cleared of all charges. I know people like you will get frustrated with that verdict, and then lose trust in cricket as a whole. You will stop watching cricket, and one viewer is lost. You are not going to be the only one, and cricket stands to lose many more such viewers. So even if the players are cleared, the ICC will be worried about loss of viewership, and PCB may decide to never pick these players again. Justice delivered, right? Now what if (however improbable in your world) these players are innocent? Spare a thought.

I am not sure of the Daily Mail's credibility, but I would still say it only implicated Butt. But I'll still prefer to see it on cricinfo before accepting this as conclusive evidence. The case against Asif and Amir is still pretty weak isn't it?

 

[Pakistani_Athiest]

@Pakistani_Athiest:

Anecdotal evidence has definitely tainted these cricketers for life, and that is unfortunate in case they are innocent. It is more comforting to believe "even if a guilty man walks free, never should an innocent man be punished". Again, if the timing of the video cannot be established, the three must be cleared of all charges. I know people like you will get frustrated with that verdict, and then lose trust in cricket as a whole. You will stop watching cricket, and one viewer is lost. You are not going to be the only one, and cricket stands to lose many more such viewers. So even if the players are cleared, the ICC will be worried about loss of viewership, and PCB may decide to never pick these players again. Justice delivered, right? Now what if (however improbable in your world) these players are innocent? Spare a thought.

If they are really innocent, they should be able to prove that in a court of law. Maybe they will still not be able to play cricket. That's unfortunate, but there are millions of people that are more unfortunate than them. This world is an unfortunate place.

 

[Awesome]

Asim,

Why would they take cash instead of check?

Plenty of reasons, also all speculative.

1) They might not have a banking account in the UK
2) The check could've been made out to Mazhar Majeed's name since hes their rep in UK
3) Recklessness, inexperience owing to their age.

The point is, they have written contracts detailing how they got that cash from Mazhar Majeed.

 

[Sliver]

@Pakistani_Athiest:

Anecdotal evidence has definitely tainted these cricketers for life, and that is unfortunate in case they are innocent. It is more comforting to believe "even if a guilty man walks free, never should an innocent man be punished". Again, if the timing of the video cannot be established, the three must be cleared of all charges. I know people like you will get frustrated with that verdict, and then lose trust in cricket as a whole. You will stop watching cricket, and one viewer is lost. You are not going to be the only one, and cricket stands to lose many more such viewers. So even if the players are cleared, the ICC will be worried about loss of viewership, and PCB may decide to never pick these players again. Justice delivered, right? Now what if (however improbable in your world) these players are innocent? Spare a thought.

I am not sure of the Daily Mail's credibility, but I would still say it only implicated Butt. But I'll still prefer to see it on cricinfo before accepting this as conclusive evidence. The case against Asif and Amir is still pretty weak isn't it?

if they are cleared, NOTW will be banished.. ppl will stop believeing tabloids at all.. those cricketers will be given a public apology by everyone who said they were cheats...


but just in case they are cheats, everyone standing by them waiting for more and more evidence even though there is enough... they are going to be losing their credibility too..

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

How do Emails, Text messages, phone records prove that, those videos were shot before the no balls?


Again, a receipt of picking up the cash is different from a receipt of handing over the cash.


Majeed and Mahmood had been schmoozing around for a lot while longer than when the alleged transaction was amde.


A claim not captured in the videos.


This is also between NOTW staff and not captured on the video.

They could have held a dated third party newspaper in front of the videos, a trick that has been used in movies since forever and is commonly known.

Whether or not the players are guilty, one does have to admire how Asim poked holes in every argument made by NOTW to validate the timing of the video.

On the validation through the timing of the email to the editor - If this was indeed a setup, then the people doing it knew in advance what scoop they wanted, and who would give it to them, and therefore the wrote an email to the editor claiming that what they expected/planned would happen, had already happened.

 

[brahmastra]

Had sufficient evidence to charge players - Lorgat

Spot-fixing controversy: Had sufficient evidence to charge players - Lorgat | Cricket News | England v Pakistan 2010 | Cricinfo.com

 

[Bang Galore]

Plenty of reasons, also all speculative.

1) They might not have a banking account in the UK

21st century folks; money transfer, anyone?

2) The check could've been made out to Mazhar Majeed's name since hes their rep in UK

Still money transfer!

3) Recklessness, inexperience owing to their age.

Recklessness? Sure! Who can argue with that? Inexperience? Not really sure about that ! They seem to have plenty of experience of this if you go by what's coming out! Feel sorry only for Mohammad Amir. Considering both his background & his age, PCB should have done a better job protecting & mentoring him.

The point is, they have written contracts detailing how they got that cash from Mazhar Majeed.

Really! & for a guy who is as sceptical as you, why could they have not, if they exist been drawn out after the fact?

 

[Awesome]

Posted and discussed several pages ago, Ben

 

[LaBong]

Whether or not the players are guilty, one does have to admire how Asim poked holes in every argument made by NOTW to validate the timing of the video.

On the validation through the timing of the email to the editor - If this was indeed a setup, then the people doing it knew in advance what scoop they wanted, and who would give it to them, and therefore the wrote an email to the editor claiming that what they expected/planned would happen, had already happened.

I didn't follow all the news relating the fixing saga. Just 2 questions:

1: What is mentioned in the said e-mail? Only Pak players will be fixing match or more specific details like no-ball will be bowled at that moment etc?

2. What evidence has NOTW given to prove the video is indeed shot before the match? It's pretty easy to know the video timing. I saw in local newspaper that video has been proved to be original, again I didn't read into details.

 

[Awesome]

21st century folks; money transfer, anyone?

Large companies prefer to pay in checks, stating the check no on to the contract, and ensuring the checks are crossed.

Checks are also manager's/bankers checks not regular checks so they are certified to be en-cashed.

Checks are also handed over right at the time of signing a contract, so the payment is done then n there.

Money transfer through banking means, despite what you might see in movies, is not instant and can easily take up to a few hours and hence is never really used as a legitimate means of signing a deal.

Recklessness? Sure! Who can argue with that? Inexperience? Not really sure about that ! They seem to have plenty of experience of this if you go by what's coming out! Feel sorry only for Mohammad Amir. Considering both his background & his age, PCB should have done a better job protecting & mentoring him.

Everything is unproven against them.

Really! & for a guy who is as sceptical as you, why could they have not, if they exist been drawn out after the fact?

Have they been challenged as forgeries by their sponsors like Adidas? These are third parties, parties over which these three players would have no control over.