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Split Discussion: Muhajir Identity

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Another misconception that I will clear is that the Armed forces don't take on Karachiites. Partially, this is true because the Armed forces have a minimum height requirement, among other things, that not all of us reach. Genetically speaking, we are a lot shorter than other Pakistanis. However, if you qualify, I know many Karachiites who are working for the army, navy and the Airforce and are Karachiites, a term I will use instead of Muhajir.

Personally I have never heard of a height issue but that also depends on which part a person migrated from. I have some relatives in the army. Just their mindset didn't change which is what worries me. They go to Pakhtunkhwa to fight the war but I don't see any objectivity in them and they seem to be part of the tradition of looking down their noses at other ethnic groups.

Also you will see that there is a lack of foot soldiers of Muhajir descent but in the officer classes that changes. It is a matter of urdu-speakers being in the middle classes that plays a part here.

You are right about both terms being wrong, @<u><a href="http://www.defence.pk/forums/member.php?u=136430" target="_blank">haviZsultan</a></u>. I was born here, so were my parents. The last generation of Muhajirs are too old to actually support a party and never did support MQM or the Pashtun killing. It's the new generation which has, based on misconceptions.

No comment. Agree though I feel our uncles and everyone is supportive of the party too, which is the older generation.

Me too. I was born in Islamabad and there are cousins who have never been to India.

There is one thing though. I have newspapers that show, that over 30 years ago, there were news advertisements that said, "Karachiites can not apply." That did happen but now we're much more well off than the other races.

Our grandfathers/parents focus on education really paid off... gotta say. From a grandfather who traversed Karachi on a cycle and whose kids were not given money for the bus... education has brought Karachite migrants to a very powerful position.

Another thing, there is no bias that prevents us from getting into universities. Personally, I'm in NUST, something which is not based in Karachi (In the KHI campus though, again purely my choice, I could have gone to Risalpur or Islamabad). This lie is spread by people who could not get accepted in the universities of their choice.

On this topic, UET Lahore even has special seats so that one can apply directly from Karachi, through NED.

Yeah.

Well i can't say but i can surely say that on youtube they aren't MQM guys who still use these derogatory names cuz they speaking in their language too. I'm not saying all of them are like this but few does. In this same forum you can see few members are kindda rude & have insulting behaviour towards Muhajirs.

Let them insult. I can add a few things too to what they say. Muhajirs are bewakuuf log, akal sey paidal, brainless and usually very very racist. Now what happened? Did the sky fall, did the sun rise from the west?

There its non-muhajirs insulting you here it is a person of muhajir birth doing it and since my relatives strongly identify as muhajirs I am saying all this to them too. So? What difference did it make?

Man, we guys could have been an example for the rest of the country. Now we are going to cry over little things all the time? I will ask the same question of another and they will say the same thing... muhajirs insult us all the time.

Question is, is there anyone who has the ability to rise above this? Why you guys have never tried to win people over with respect and understanding than forming a derh int ki masjid seperately. I explained how hypocritical it was for us (in this case lucknowites) to unite with a person who speaks Urdu in Bihari dialect but feel "different" from the others like Punjabis and the rest.

Man Chak Bamu is not even Muhajir. He is a non-muhajir fighting for your right to exist, Batman same thing, Raja Pakistani, same thing. All feel they have a moral responsibility to defend you guys. Then why the average MQM supporters monumental insecurity? We don't need a terrorist organization like MQM to represent us.

Supporting MQM is not supporting only Altaf. I support MQM cuz of their hard work in Karachi, their support to middleclass families, their ideas & plannings, their energy to develop the city & country, etc. altaf speech was condemned by many in Karachi & even in his own party that's why he present clarification speech too. And why only give importance to altaf speech when zulfiqar mirza of ppp in his speech said that he would've annonce the separation of Sind after Benazeer death if zardari would'nt had stop him to & ANP guys who support bacha khan, a man who called Pakistan 'qabristan'.

I have raised all those issues. I can add-Hakim Ali Zardari's words on Jinnah and Asfandyar Wali's claim that he is Pashtun before anything else. But who is the one who can counter them? The ones from their community. Muhajirs should counter Altaf and the Pashtuns Bacha Khan which they do.

I can attack those personalities for trying to break my country but I cannot focus on them without being willing to place Altaf before the firing squad for that speech, otherwise I am a hypocrite.

This is the support MQM leaders recieve even in universities,

For more info, here is full video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9JjuLUY53rE

Its got to do with the middle class being Muhajir. When your ethnic group has the money to send those kids in colleges and universities its a very different thing, on the other hand Sindhis are dying of thirst and starvation in Tharparkar or Sanghar-quite callous of our "separate" little community if you ask me. 948,364 students are estimated to be enrolled in 2009-10 in Higher education institutions. The total should be 4-5 million actually. Ethnic statistics are one hard thing to get. But let me make an educated guess since I work with statistics a lot. At least 12-20% would be Urdu speakers. By the way figures correlate with gdp per capita data by H&H.

Also it still doesn't change this:


P.S you didn't answere my post # 131.

That was a half-hearted response to a massive post with inconvenient parts ignored. It would even have been okay if you ignored the parts u answered. :)

I highlight stuff and make it bold for easier reading. If you wanted you could have just replied to that only, in case you felt that post was too long since they were some of the main points. Answer post 128 and I will reply fully-just don't avoid unpleasant things like darkinsky. I was going to look at other replies but u expected a response so I replied.
 
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@haviZsultan, Would at least some people disassociate Muhajir identity from MQM in light of today's drone attack from UK?
 
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@Chak Bamu. This is a post I'd like you to look at. Your response is coming but I am trying to answer the posts that come first though from my side this is more of a "conclusive, final" post because I move from the issues and problems to what I believe is the solution. Each solution is debatable however so we still have to move to the stage of debate over the solutions. :)

We need a new name though, it is a slightly separate culture. Perhaps something derived from Sindh and the fact that most of us are based in Karachi?

Sindhi Karachiites, maybe?

Now if you noticed I left this part out earlier because this is a huge discussion. This single post is an entirely separate discussion because it asks the fundamental question that yes these are the issues but what is the solution? The reason I waited so long to address it is because I was waiting for a post like yours that acknowledges the issue. The prerequisite to finding the solution is identifying the problem and since we have identified it and acknowledge it indeed is a problem we can progress to solutions.

That term "Muhajir" or "Urdu-speaker" has been imposed on us (by ourselves) for years, perhaps since the days of migration to our country, Pakistan (60+ years). No one has challenged it, no one has asked whether the meaning of the term is offensive to us and our families but now we do it and thus this is indeed one of the most insightful debates into Muhajir identity I have ever witnessed. I will divide the reply in 3 parts. The second part is your answer @truthseer and the 3rd part considers the why must we do this, the benefits and disadvantages not for us, but for our land, Pakistan because only once we stop looking at the world as a tiny community but rather as a Nation can we address the issue at hand. :)

Part 1: The issues with the term Muhajir or Urdu-speaker (I am aware we have discussed this in detail but just wish to reiterate some points) for newcomers:
The term "Muhajir"
1) Muhajir is not an ethnicity due to the fact that each migrant has a differing culture, brings with him a unique family background and history and finally has various linguistic differences, in this case even within "Urdu-speakers". Point to note that Bihari, Lucknowi and Hyderabadi dialects of Urdu differ. This is discussed in detail in post 5. Our culture is Gujrati, Marathi, Lucknowi, Bihari or Hyderabadi. A wider identity obfuscates our real identity and richness of our real culture.
2) There is hypocrisy in the fact that a person from Lucknow with almost no cultural link to a person from Madras can bind himself together under the collective identity of Muhajir and look down on his Punjabi/Pashtun/Sindhi brother but cannot unite with the Punjabi, Sindhi or Baloch. The use of this term for division in Pakistan is clear for all to see.
3) Muhajir is an offensive term meaning pilgrim. It reduces a people that perceive themselves as an ethnic group to mere nomads. The question is allegations are made that the identity was not adopted by them but imposed by "other" ethnic groups. But an identity with negative connotations attached is immediately abandoned by a people with any form of self-respect. So why are they now keen to call themselves Muhajir?
4) Muhajir is another word for pilgrim. How does it describe a person who who is settled in the main cities of Pakistan and has access to the best education, healthcare and services in the entire country? It makes a people with a proud history look like nomads.
5) The term itself is a cause of insecurity amongst Muhajirs which has often resulted in the bashing of other ethnic groups in order to reiterate the fact that they are Muhajirs. The entire identity is now based on the aspects of being victims, being superior to other ethnic groups and deflecting and shifting any blame for mistakes. A look into previous posts will tell any person how true this.
6) Muhajir was meant to be a term that basically referred to all those who moved from what is now India to what is now Pakistan. However they themselves have proven it wrong. The Muhajirs that settled in Punjab now have adopted the term Punjabi for themselves, the ones in Pakhtunkhwa Pashtuns or Hindkowan's and the ones in Balochistan Baloch. Even in Karachi there are families who identify as Sindhi particularly the Memons are a case to note. Chak Bamu himself sees himself as a Punjabi. So basically the term has failed.
7) What self-respect will someone who is forever calling himself a pilgrim have left? A simple look at how discriminatory this term is will reveal the underlying reasons for a persons security. Its like forever being called a donkey. Thus the average Muhajir is forced to accept that identity and to feel secure in it insult or look down at every other person from another ethnic group.
7) The final reason is if it is simply movement from point A to point B then everyone is basically a Muhajir because since the beginning of the world people have been moving from one place to the other. The Pashtuns who came to Karachi are also Muhajir and the Sindhis who went to Punjab are also Muhajir. The term is NO term.

Urdu-speaker
1) Urdu-speaker is often used by non-muhajirs as a means to ensure they do not "offend" the Muhajir, realizing Muhajir itself is an offensive term though it raises the question once again why the Muhajir himself is keen to maintain this identity. However the flaw with Urdu-speaker is that it is simply another term for Muhajir meaning exactly the same thing and being the same wider identity for groups with cultural differences.
2) Urdu-speaker is discriminatory to those migrants who have a language other than urdu, for example Gujrati or Marathi. This is the primary reason why it is again a mistake to label people Muhajirs or Urdu speakers. It is an injustice to call a person whose ancestral language isn't urdu an urdu-speaker and as is clear truthseer has rejected this term too on account of his language.
3) Building on point 2 it raises the fundamental question that if the entire term "Muhajir/Urdu-speaker" is based on urdu-which language are we to promote? If we are promoting Urdu then what about those who speak Gujrati or Madrasi? Here we see how this incomplete term is actually killing our languages and if you look further killing our distinct cultures too by putting people with different cultures under one magnifying glass.

Part 2 Possible solutions:

1) Merge within local cultures: Merging with local cultures is not as hard as people make it appear nor is there any proof that locals do not want us to merge. In fact even the nationalist Sindhis have constantly stated the fact that they are ready to accept migrants-they just want them to start calling themselves Sindhi. I have largely merged with Pashtuns and have developed Pashtun identity. Never have I once felt that someone doesn't want me to call myself one and have given examples of how much respect I have earned by doing so. This is a myth perpetuated by MQM members who want to maintain a distinct identity themselves. Also a case to note here is that those who migrated to Pakhunkhwa merged into local ethnic groups, those who did to Balochistan did the same, most in Punjab too did the same but a massive concentration of refugees settled in Karachi which made it difficult for us here to merge. It is our families refusing to drop the identity, not them. This debate can help them make the decision.

2) Reinforce our past and identify ourselves with our real culture: As stated earlier in the issues with the wider terminology "Muhajir" used for migrants it does not do justice to our rich cultures. There is nothing wrong calling ourselves Bihari or Lucknowi. Pakistan is changing rapidly and these places being in India won't matter which I believe is the worry. We can explain how once our houses hosted the Muslim League. Now note that I haven't given up on my Ansari family despite adopting Pashtun identity... so maybe the two can exist at the same time as well. Of these 2 options however I will believe merger (option 1) is better. Why? Because the process of losing culture, history and language has already largely begun. I can cite many examples. Another thing is those places are in India-some people just appear suspicious about us maintaining links-I noticed this at FIA office when moving people and for naturalization process. However if option 1 is too difficult as it means learning an entire new culture and language this can be done.

3) In case of failure in 1 and 2. Maintain the term Muhajir (I will not advise this but if as Chak Bamu said there is no choice but to accept it-then fine (though in my response I will explain that this is a perception and the identity has stuck for a time, an attempt made to make it permanent by Altaf's seal which makes it hard for us to see a future without it): But retain objectivity and self-criticism and for gods sake do not let the identity be used for political means and reject every time any political ideology that uses Muhajir as a tool for unity-it is hypocracy because if we can unite with a Goan who eats fish I can with my Punjabi or Sindhi brother under the flag of Pakistani Nationalist. Understand that politics on the basis of ethnicity has the power to divide and it divides us from the other ethnic groups in Pakistan which are supposed to be our brothers. Teach your kids love, respect and make sure they never hate another group. Even if you believe in something you have a greater role tell them that each ethnic group had an equal role-tell them stories of how other ethnic groups sacrificed for Muhajirs (Pashtuns and Balochs raised Lashkars to protect migrating Muhajir families)... do not let them become fanatics who hate one another. Please. Though this term should go, a political party with insight can help it disappear though disengaging MQM from Karachi will be a challenge.

Part 3Logic behind aforementioned solutions:
1) Merge within local cultures: -In Pakistan we have enough ethnic tensions and it is clear that ethnicity often makes us think highly of ourselves. The logic to this is simple. Muhajir chauvinism is part of a reason for the rise of ethnic tensions. Now I have always argued for the diversity of our cultures but for the aforementioned reasons Muhajir is not actually a culture (see post 5). Its a term that is an injustice to our real cultures which make us very diverse. However merger can help diffuse these tensions-we don't need a separate community in Pakistan with its already existing ethnic tensions and that also which is basically a false identity. It is indeed in the best interests of the country and Muhajirs that they merge, otherwise it will always be a cause of great insecurity. A person moves all the time-what happens is usually they adopt local customs and ways. There is nothing wrong with it. What has hampered it is us outnumbering the Sindhis (in Karachi) who were 60% originally and are now 7-8% of the population. We overwhelmed them and with such a massive population it became harder to merge.
-Our original cultures have already been disappearing. Its quite visible. A bhabi is from Hyderabad and only her grandmother speaks the Deccan dialect of Urdu. So perhaps this may be the better solution compared to 2). Its gradually happening and @truthseer can confirm that a lot of his family members may not know his original language which is disappearing. Here either an effort can be made to save it or merge within the local fabric.
-It is a great way to create goodwill and ethnic harmony. I gave an example of the Pashtun driver who had become used to abuse from our families. I merged and now he respects me utterly. I say Afghans (nation) are highly intolerant he gives them a few galis, I say Pakistan Zindabad, he says he will die for Pakistan. If I am making someone more patriotic, strenghthening the bond between communities in my holy Pakistan... well its a cause I would be willing to live and die for. I will learn all 5 major languages of Pakistan and merge with the Pashtuns. The ethnic issue dies at the walls of Pakistani Nationalism.
-It will end the chauvinism and hatred we see today. Its stupid for a Muhajir to hate on all these communities because muhajir is a term for migrants. Chak Bamu is a muhajir too if we go by what these guys mean when they say it (all who moved from India being migrants) but he is a Punjabi too... so basically how silly can you be? When you insult him or a Punjabi you are insulting Muhajirs which is a wide term for all migrants.
-It will send a strong message of unity. Today Indians laugh at me saying I have no place in Pakistan because I am by birth a muhajir-this is of course untrue but when you call yourself a pilgrim you just give them barrels of gunpowder for their cannons. I am a Pashtun-I refuse this discriminatory label called Muhajir. Za Pashtun yam aw zama watan der aziz de (I am Pashtun and my country is valuable to me). Chak Bamu, Sedqal, Hyperion every other person here of different ethnicity is my Pakistani blood brother and it is my responsibility to do everything I can for him, even give my life for him. Pakistan is not a "Muhajir" empire or that of any ethnic group. It is for all of us and each one of our cultures is brilliant and worth preserving.

2) Reinforce our past and identify ourselves with our real culture: -There are benefits of this as we can reclaim a lot of our heritage which we are losing. Our clothes, our culture... everything. Muslim married hyderabadi women wear saris but this is gradually being lost. It shouldn't be and we can work to save it by re-adopting our real ethnic identity rather than a false label.
One of the flaws with this is however is that a lot of migrants today haven't even been to their ancestral villages or towns so they don't really feel any link to Lucknow, Hyderabad or whichever place they migrated from. Personally that is why I feel 1 is better.
-Going by the statement however I made to Armstrong that truly being a Pakistani means loving each one of our ethnic groups and respecting each one. That means that each language or culture must be preserved at all costs. Therefore Gujarati, Marathi, Deccan, Madrasi, Goan-whatever, should be preserved.

3) Maintain the term Muhajir :-Now as I said this is a last ditch measure-if it is impossible to merge we can maintain the term despite its shortfalls. The only reason I am putting this in there is Chak Bamu's post. But I will simply state given the monumental evidence that simply makes it clear that this identity is only actually a piece of porcelain, fragile and fake that it is possible to break it-truthseer i have seen sometimes defended muhajirs but he is seeing this too. The identity is fake-when you are attempting to break it there will be a lot of noise at first but if it is individuals from the urdu-speaking community that rise to the occasion and attempt to do it, it can be done. If you want proof darkinsky seems to have given up completely... ;) American Pakistani too and other such posters have also answered my posts not only now but before too selectively-because this is all the simple undeniable truth which they have never in their history looked at-they can only look at it themselves when the mask of "victimization" disappears but I am forcing them to look at the other side. So basically Muhajir can disappear but will someone appear who challenges it and does not fear being shot by the MQM remains to be seen? As Chak Bamu said it is possible it will remain and very difficult to eliminate it despite the lie it is. Even I am forced to use it because there is no other word for migrant. But it can go away and it should. If a person refuses to abandon it when faced with these monumental facts he is stupid-but some people do not abandon old ways.

All this is basically something like a hidden door in a castle-it reveals an entirely new world that has forever been locked away to the average migrants eyes- a way of thinking that is totally new and revolutionary for someone who has been imposed with the identity of muhajir all the time which can only be reinforced with bigotism and racism which I said again is to themselves! These things being discussed have never perhaps been discussed in the history of migrants. So @Chak Bamu can the Muhajir identity disappear-yes it can my dear but what u need is a knowledgeable person from that community who can challenge the pillars on which it is established.

So back to your question @truthseer... yes Sindhi Karachite is a perfect term. :) If some people have a worry over that then their original culture should come like Gujrati or Bihari but Muhajir is no identity-it just shows a lack of self-respect. Its nothing wrong though some people don't want us to associate with those old places-they don't understand the history and how these places have been home to the Muslim League. They were supposed to be part of Pakistan anyway as highlighted in Chaudhry Rehmat Ali's pamphlet.

In the past posts we looked at the various problems, the issues that arise but this is a look at solutions. I would mark this post as the "solution" post... the question is will it happen? Is it really possible that a person is disengaged from the identity completely as @Chak Bamu questioned or rather stated the opinion that I may have to accept "Muhajir" as a permanent term. To that I will reply soon.

But I believe that it is possible to disengage from the discriminatory, incomplete term Muhajir. @truthseer here is willing to do it, I am willing to do it and have done it already by calling myself Pashtun, a lot of others may be too and the failure of the term is proven by your refusal to count yourself as one despite being a migrant. I will explain this further in Chak Bamu's reply.

Anyone new should read this post, post 1 and 5. Also do read some of @truthseer's and @Chak Bamu's posts for an alternative view or a background to the situation. Let this debate be a shining torch for Pakistan's people that aids us in doing away with our ethnic issues and biases. Muhajirs criticize and analyze their role after 47. Others will do the same. I advise my community of birth to look at things critically-think beyond race and ethnicity and the victim mentality which are the bulwarks of the MQM. Challenge them for our leader is Quaid E Azam not Altaf as is of all Pakistanis which makes us all one.

@Chak Bamu, I am dealing with oldest replies first... am getting there. Will address all yours too. Not ignoring it. You are my brother man. I won't ignore your replies. :D
 
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@haviZsultan, Would at least some people disassociate Muhajir identity from MQM in light of today's drone attack from UK?

I think all of this is a step by step process:
1) Disassociating Muhajir identity with MQM
2) Questioning the MQM
3) Taking a more nonchalant approach to Muhajir identity
4) Criticizing the faults of Muhajir leaders and Muhajir identity
5) Learning more about this blanket term for a number of ethnic groups while looking down your nose when it comes to other ethnic groups. Questioning Muhajir identity itself
6) Disassociating with Muhajir identity by either reclaiming original ethnic identity or merging (No reason it is impossible-Punjabis, a lot of them don't even know Punjabi nowadays, very easy to merge with them or with others)

My family won't disassociate themselves even if he raises a militia and starts fighting for India. They will still think it is a lie or a trick by Punjabis, Pashtuns the ISI, moon, universe, tall greys, anakunni, whatever but they won't disengage... (They are not anti Pakistani) I could try convincing them but my personal situation is a bit weak these days so they admit I have knowledge but u knw... issues. My dad don't like me either so he does lots of character assassination. I can't do much on the family front but ran entire organizations outside.

By the way you have to read post 153 fully even though it will {WARNING} hurt your eyes being too long and me being in the habit of writing essays. :D
 
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I am a Muhajir and people who says that still muhajirs supports MQM is a lie ! most of people in our family hate MQM ( specially after 12 may ) ! but it is matter of fact that when you treat muhajirs in a wrong way ( still some peole says us panah guzeen , etc) terrorist paties like MQM are formed !
 
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@haviZsultan

Excellent post and to an extent, our ethnicity along with the Memons have done it. We're the Konkans (Probably unknown) but we haven't forgotten our society. If you research our group, it'll be divided into two groups, Pakistani Konkans and Indian ones. And that's exactly what we've done, never do we refer to ourselves as Muhajirs or Urdu Speakers.

The Memons are another story, they have integrated excellently and take care of their own community in so many ways. They are very united and kind, though they are the butt of many jokes.

What we have done is a fusion of Step 1 and 2, learning Sindhi, using some of their culture and keeping ours too
 
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Okay I have realized that each time I try to praise someones ethnicity or stop an urdu speaker from racism someone else feels insulted. :D

This is partly because we take ethnicity too seriously, each one of us and we just aren't disengaged with ethnic identity. I have through perhaps poor choice of words managed to insult both @batmannow and @Raja.Pakistani and maybe a lot of others. I believe the issue is such a debate hasn't really taken place in the past because of our poor explanation of what we define as "Pakistani Nationalism" which makes us a little defensive about ethnicity. I believe this debate may lead to us all loosening up a little over an issue that has long been existent.

Now @A.Rafay? Help me out here. Simple question to put the baby to rest. I need just a simple answer. Lets say I hypothetically decide that I have come to Sindh and am to stay here, I start calling myself a Sindhi (hypothetically-in my case I have adopted Pashtun identity)... would you accept me as a Sindhi?

Possible answers:
1) Yes
2) No

Can you reply? Just yes or no. Want to prove a point on this thread.
 
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Yes i will accept you as a sindhi, you live in sindh, you speak either sindhi or urdu but you will adopt the culture of sindh and learn History of Sindh, You are truly a sindhi, I infact consider all muhajirs Of karachi Urdu speaking Sindhis cuz they all live in sindh, Pushtoons And balochs are also Muhajirs in karachi same as muhajirs from India migrated they migrated from Sarhad now KPK and baluchistan in search of jobs, Its their Right Cuz we all live in same Nation and we should tolerate each other.

I am a Muhajir and people who says that still muhajirs supports MQM is a lie ! most of people in our family hate MQM ( specially after 12 may ) ! but it is matter of fact that when you treat muhajirs in a wrong way ( still some peole says us panah guzeen , etc) terrorist paties like MQM are formed !

I will call you sindhi brother, How long will pakistanis call you muhajirs of Karachi because MQM thinks they are Muhajirs!! Well pushtoons and baloochs also live in Karachi they also came from their ancestral land to karachi to settle and find jobs so they also become Muhajirs right?
 
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Chak Bamu, thanks for providing an alternative view. This is really improving the debate.

Chak Bamu I believe post #153 would cast some light on the solutions or alternatives. Now the discussion veers to: are the alternatives or solutions I mentioned plausible?

First of all do note the 6 points I mentioned and how the discussion progresses in the same manner. Initially I argued with darkinsky to break the myth that MQM represents all Muhajirs. Then I argued against the MQM's ideology and showed with figures and statistics that it is indeed a militant group. After this I asked Muhajirs to not be offended by insults and some of the things I wrote for them you might call exactly that-but to make a point. That some racism should not make us forget that this guy is 1 of 99 people-rest who love us, it is not a cause of division. Furthermore it demands them to stop taking insult at everything because basically someone says something about them... they feel insulted and insult the other ethnic group and thats how ethnic wars begin. Next I began discussing Muhajir identity and ideology revealing the problems with it. Then I moved to solutions.

I hope that solution post would have provided some insight and answers to questions. Now we move to... is it possible to implement those solutions.

@haviZsultan, the points you've raised a well-noted.

Identity is a complicated matter. If I were living in (say) Poland, it would be very easy. Ethnicity, language, Nationality, would be very uncomplicated. Things are not quite so easy for us in Pakistan. The issues of identity that you raise are important indeed.

First of all let me start from the fact that I am a Nationalist and we have for years tried to stop ethnic identity from "existing." due to the issues described previously. Now it has never worked and Nationalist mentality which simply wants to stop . This is a new approach to the entire issue. Accepting ethnic identities exist but looking at things from a Pakistani nationalist perspective and giving the Afghan-lovers and MQM-lovers an alternative view. Personally I do not believe our families need this identity to survive and new ethnic identity that is largely imposed on us and is discriminatory in the first place is unneeded.

As a journalist you have not seen the cases I have seen. I will point out some: 3 Gujjars murdered in Pakhunkhwa just because they were Gujjars, one of them a married woman was raped. A Punjabis elbow touches a Pashtuns as he passes in the narrow gully's of Hyderi market (Karachi) and a person dies over it-shops are closed. Abuses hurled against one ethnic group by shopkeepers. All know about the woman crushed by a driver which was a catalyst to this Muhajir nationalism.

In this case the question is do we need more ethnic identities specially one that is totally fake and an injustice to my lucknowi culture? Fine lets agree the ethnic identities themselves aren't issues... but they can always be exploited but if we go by this then more ethnic identities, especially one with no commonalities means more exploitation? Even here it can very easily be seen that a member of one ethnic group always supports the other. I discussed this when I discussed Qasba Aligarh and one persons defense for Afghanistan and how looking beyond this can help.

There has to be someone who challenges that and you might notice I have more than once been caught calling Muhajirs (my own family and my own birth ethnicity) names. But the point no one understands nor anyone has the ability to look at what it means for a person of Muhajir birth to be challenging this identity so aggressively and how it can be a catalyst to the end of the ethnic issue... especially if everyone else replicates the behavior. I am saying we do not need to believe these identities to be so important.

Politics using ethnicity as a basis can disappear very quickly if rather than constantly attacking each others ethnic groups instead we decide to look within or perhaps even attack our own. In short, us migrants do not need another imposed ethnic identity which is a total folly in this case.

Also a lot of people don't want to understand this and feel I am the one who is actually "a trouble-maker" by raising such issues of ethnic identity. The real issue is that we do not want to deal with a very uncomfortable, ugly reality (which is why MQM supporters ignore or avoid aspects of posts or complete posts challenging them). And that is what drives us to make a lot of foolish decisions that result in twisted useless leaders coming to power.

Identity is based on feelings, not papers. If a set of people wishes to call themselves 'Mohajir' then we have to accept that without worrying about semantics. In my first post I noted that there is a perceived need for such an identity. You wish to point out the reality, but perception trumps reality whether we like it or not. Let us consider the following labels (no offence to anyone):

Let me be clear. A people may wish to call themselves Muhajir in which case I may have to accept it but there is no reason why this identity cannot be broken down. You have seen 2 examples of this case. I am a "Muhajir" by birth (21 years of my life) and have merged as a Pashtun, openly call myself one. truthseer as well has merged and started calling himself a Sindhi while retaining his Konkan culture. Perhaps even you could be added here because in its traditional terms muhajir is for all migrants who came from parts now in India... but looking at it that way you despite being a muhajir identify as a Punjabi? So... this identity can be broken down and these things prove the failure of this identity for us.

Another case to be noticed is that there were "muhajirs" who settled in Pakhtunkhwa, Balochistan and Punjab. They did not end up developing a separate identity but merged. So basically it is very, very possible. What is required is that people like me or truthseer or even you challenge these MQM supporters or try to convince those who feel there is no option. You have every right Chak Bamu-you are just like me-a migrant who rejected muhajir as a label for himself.

Now if they wish to call themselves muhajir-we grudgingly have to accept that-but for someone of Muhajir birth it is a responsibility to challenge them, especially if they try to divide me from my brothers (other ethnicities) or build a wall around themselves just because they want to maintain the myth of being a separate group.

Perhaps with the solutions I mentioned you may think differently. There is an alternative.

a. Mohajir - you have pointed out what is wrong with it.
b. Urdu-speakers - We all are to one extent or another. And yet we have Bengalis, Madrasis, Keralites (?), etc...
c. Bhai log - Any bit of head scratching does not help here. What could it mean?
d. Non-Punjabi Immigrants - While quite accurate, it does define a group of people in a negative manner. Nothing positive here.
e. Karachiites - What do you call people of similar back-ground from Hyderabad and other places in Sindh?
f. Haq-Parast - What are others then? Very annoying.

We have discussed this. Lets move on. Just will reiterate the point I made to American Pakistani. He said others called us these things or Muhajir and we took the least offensive name. I said fine but any community with self-respect gives those names up, doesn't call itself by those names, for example the black slaves in US who abandoned the last names like Little, White or Brown imposed by white masters. Now that proves this wrong doesn't it? It is Muhajirs (lots of them) who are keen to maintain a discriminatory term-so to your next point which says (and is right when so many do want to call themselves muhajir):

You do a good job to point out what is wrong with the term 'Mohajir' and how it is misused by MQM and its supporters. But what alternative is there? 'Urdu-speaking' perhaps, but then there are problems with this too. If we ask the people concerned to give up their identity for the sake of Pakistan, then what can we realistically expect from them?

Post 153 casts light on the alternatives.

What about me? I gave up ethnic identity as demanded by my organization, learned different languages to obfuscate it as well. It is no hassle for a person who loves his country. The issue is that ethnic identity hasn't disappeared despite it thus requiring a novel approach to the situation... that of me challenging my family and members of my ethnic group of birth and fighting racism where I see it. I have come to accept ethnic identity as a reality but to accept an imposed identity? Don't think so.

Now I will bring forward some case studies. America. Example provided before-Germans, Britons, Scots, Spaniards and how many others merging just as Americans. African slaves in Arab nations-they merged and developed the wider identity known as arabs-even their tribes disappeared and throughout Islamic history there were wars between arab tribal clans. Then look at history, Nabataeans, Chati, Fracissi thousands upon thousands of ethnic and tribal groups merging and coalescing with others.

Man look at my ancestry. Abu Ayub Ansari was an Arab and companion of the Prophet, Khajeh Abdullah Ansari was a Tajik and Mullah Qutub bin asad shaheed. Now some of his ancestors are either lucknowites or Pakistanis (calling themselves muhajir) so what is the issue if I become a Pashtun. Ethnicity is very fluid. If it could happen elsewhere then it can definitely happen in Pakistan and it will happen.

Change comes slow but it can take place given that there are some born muhajirs who challenge this label. Even there seem to be changes on the site. darkinsky used to be one of the top MQM racists along with W.11 from what I have noticed from the past 2 weeks-not a post without insult to some other ethnic group. Both have toned down and do not launch tirades against other ethnic groups as they did before-anyone will be forced to think when they look at these posts. And seriously if you look at the points I forced them to look at they don't have a reply either. Its no wonder they run away because these are bitter truths.

The issue you can say is more one of convincing them to abandon Muhajir identity rather than anything else. A knowledgeable person who is born in this community can do this, can challenge them.

It is no easy matter; especially when a number of people identify themselves positively as Punjabi, Pashtun, Baloch, Sindhi. What do they do if not adopt a term coined for themselves that gives them a bit of a positive idea of themselves.

Create an example for the Punjabis, Sindhis and Pashtuns to follow, that is what a true son of those who migrated with only the word Pakistan on their lips would do. Pakistan is all that should matter. Also Jinnah wanted this of us so there must be a reason behind it.

I differ with you when you say that Mohajir is a derogatory term. It is not used or intended as such by people who choose to call themselves Mohajir. Ask any psychologist how comforting and liberating is a sense of being a victim which this term evokes. Consider the religious meaning as well, which gives it a positive spin (Oh the irony of a secular party using and abusing this term).

Lets say I strongly disagree here. There are alternatives here. Its hypocricy, a single term can be used for me and a Madrasi whose food I can't even touch let alone eat and they want me to look down and be separate from other ethnic groups in Pakistan? Not for me. The entire term is a show of hypocricy and our hard-headedness. It is wrong and I feel it is very, very offensive. Each time someone is saying it you can replace it with a donkey as I said to American Pakistani both have the same meaning for me.

That is a more rational way to look at things. But I will fight the victim mentality. Maybe others will learn to do the same from my example.

Also the religious connotations are a canard. Anyone can look at the term and understand that even a pilgrim is one for a transitory period... not eternally being called a pilgrim. Anyway I hope I don't have to pull the I was forced with the muhajir identity (by ourselves again) and you were not so how do you know card? :D

I see hardly any escape from it.

I think post #153 casts light on the avenue for escape. Merger or reinforcing original identity. Again will point you out to the various communities that refused to identify themselves as muhajir-a case in point-you yourself! So basically thats why I said you actually, by telling me your background gave me tools to attack that muhajir identity, perhaps unwittingly so.

Some people using this term would always feel themselves to be a victim even after 50 years. Some people would adopt this term in a high and glorified religious sense and feel entitled to a certain sense of moral superiority. And then, most importantly, some people would be desensitized entirely and use it as just a positive way of identifying themselves.

Does not change the fact it is wrong and it is a way of looking at things that is very short-sighted and does not take into view the interests of Pakistan-but only a select ethnic group and that also we promote a twisted, wrong form of history that must be challenged. A nation doesn't operate that way. We have to challenge something like that wherever we see it. By ignoring something it gets worse.

I understand where you are coming from. I also try the same thing with other ethnic groups and respect them, their right to exist and their culture trying to build bridges-but since the age of my political maturity I have been told I am a Muhajir. If I do not challenge it, no one will. In fact I have much less right to challenge Luffy despite my adoption of Pashtun identity.

I believe this is my fundamental right. I have been fooled by this false label of Muhajir for years and I cannot let it divide me from brothers of other ethnicities.

Trust me chak bamu, there are enough examples on the thread of posters each of whom is in different phases of the 6 stages I mentioned. It can be done. I am here, breathing, living, talking to prove it so and in the last stage. After that post perhaps you will re-consider that there are options.

When this happens, Altaf would be long dead, MQM would have splintered into a dozen factions, and Mohajirs (AHEM) would welcome other political players who might be better suited to represent them in a vast metropolis where they would hardly command a majority. Rest assured, we shall all still very much be Pakistanis.

Don't worry about using the word muhajir. I am forced to use this imposed term myself-there is no other way to refer to migrants even though many don't identify themselves with it. But time for us to move to replace it with our true identification or simply merge.

Your over-riding concern shall have been transitory. Issue of identity would no longer exert the same emotional push or pull.

I hope so I live to see the day.

My personal gripe with this whole thing is a feeling of having been let down by people I respected very much and held in high esteem. Now I smile at my simplicity when growing up as a kid and struggling with learning two languages (English by far being the harder), I idolized people who spoke Urdu as a mother language. People are people, no better no worse. They just have different preoccupations and POVs. If someone looks down at my being a Punjabi in today's Pakistan, I can guess why they claim superiority and be able to coolly tell them how they are no better. Big deal. Like

The point I was making was exactly this. Every other ethnic group has respected and loved muhajirs. Everytime I say something about Muhajirs despite being a person of muhajir birth myself they feel I am insulting them. But when the same happens to someone else (some other ethnic group) they have no issue. I will not let anything divide me from my country.

Last time I tried to say that Punjabis or someone from another ethnic group should not feel guilty or blame themselves for the decline of our family members and other Muhajirs, their fall from grace as die hard nationalists to racists. It often comes out totally opposite when I say it somehow but this was what I was trying to say. It is nobody else's fault. This is a fault of Muhajirs themselves, their mindset and their voting preferences or perhaps our voting preferences because our family has voted the same way for years.

The sacrifices of Punjabis for the promotion of Urdu are well noted and Punjabi is not even taught in schools which I believe to be highly unfortunate because all our cultures are worth preserving (Muhajir is not a culture though-I maintain post 5). But why should Punjabis or anyone else be sacrificing for the Pakistani union and why can't our families which played a part in forming the Muslim League do that as well? Instead all that matters to them is forming a Muhajir empire which i feel is nothing noble.

Look at this in perspective Chak Bamu and think why it appears ridiculous or perhaps even callous to suggest that Muhajirs disappear (by merging, not genocide :lol:). It's because this identity has been used for politics and reiterated for 30 years, perhaps even 60. On it's foundations is built the MQM. It is hard to break down such an identity but there is no reason at all why it cannot be done but it will come in stages.

Sometimes certain ideas are suggested that may seem impossible-for example Pakistan has been suggested since 1920's (till then even Jinnah hadn't adopted the idea and was strongly aligned with the Congress) but it happened and is now a reality. Mark this because it is coming from a very cynical person who has a family that is extremely intolerant. Things change, old identities break down and new ones develop. There is nothing shameful in that.

I know if someone who has knowledge and such ideas comes to power he can break the identity down. I am sure thousands upon thousands of migrants can challenge it and when a large number of people do those stalwarts may have to reconsider. See we are not able to imagine a world without the muhajir identity because it has been imposed from birth, it is hard. The ottomans were like that too in another sense-they refused to give up Islamist ideas but Ataturk came and brought secular Nationalism and today all of Turkey respects him.

I believe the issue is that right now a lot of people are still in the stage of trying to disengage the Muhajir identity from MQM which is why the next step does not appear visible to us but it is right there.

Like @Armstrong said, Punjabis are cool in this way. It is not terribly important how they are seen by others, they would rather be 'Haal-Must'.

It is my duty and utmost responsibility as a Pakistani citizen and as someone committed to the various cultures and communities in this country which make us a rich and vibrant society to defend each and every Punjabi (Pakistani one) that is insulted by someone outside or people within my so-called ethnic group.

What this sounds like is that you are willing to sacrifice for Pakistan's unity. But why should others not be willing to do the same at all and if you are largely unaffected by attacks against Punjabis then why is their bum always hurting? It is not how a nation works Chak Bamu. I understand where you are coming from but I will maintain my right to defend every ethnic group in Pakistan. I reiterate you are my brother and my countryman. All that matters.

The issue of whether or not Urdu-speaking people feel superior, or what names they might call my ethnicity is a total non-starter and almost irrelevant as far as I am concerned. For Pashtuns it might be different, but I am not bothered one bit by it. MQM's shenanigans and 'Mohajir' support for them has robbed Urdu-speakers at large of any moral superiority they might wish to assume. Like I said: people are people, no better not worse, just different...

Chak Bamu, again it is exactly the same with me. I do not care what people call an urdu-speaker or even a Pashtun which is my adopted identity. But it must hurt me deeply if a person in my country is willing to sacrifice for it constantly but I refuse to do it. I must work with the other person and build my country.

One person from an ethnic group insults and quickly the one from another does the same. This is how ethnic fights begin. I will stop MQM supporters from insulting others where I see them or for that matter anyone else.
 
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Yes i will accept you as a sindhi, you live in sindh, you speak either sindhi or urdu but you will adopt the culture of sindh and learn History of Sindh, You are truly a sindhi, I infact consider all muhajirs Of karachi Urdu speaking Sindhis cuz they all live in sindh, Pushtoons And balochs are also Muhajirs in karachi same as muhajirs from India migrated they migrated from Sarhad now KPK and baluchistan in search of jobs, Its their Right Cuz we all live in same Nation and we should tolerate each other.

I thank Rafay for this insightful response. I am sorry Rafay-you told me you avoid ethnic debates. :D Its just a novel way to deal with MQM supporters and the ethnic issues prevalent in Karachi. Thank you very much.

I can only beg forgiveness for the mistakes migrant families have made. I just wanted to put to rest a lie being told about other ethnic groups in Pakistan by MQM supporters to maintain a myth of oppression of Muhajirs. The ideal choice for all of us would have been integration as Sindhis.

To all others it may concern (especially @American Pakistani and @darkinsky):

My point here in asking Rafay this question was very simple. It is actually a great number of Muhajirs who want to maintain the muhajir identity not that anyone was not willing to accept them which is the popular narrative of MQM supporters.

Our merging into other ethnic groups within Pakistan will only strengthen this country. I hold out on this. A separate identity is not what our families need and plays a part in exacerbating ethnic tensions. People look at urdu-speakers, they see a gdp per capita of 13,000 rupees more than the ethnic group which is second, they see urdu being the language of this country, they see them in the cities and in a very powerful position.... yet they do not say a word in protest. It is in the best interests of Karachi, Sindh and Pakistan that we merge with the Sindhis.

I did with the Pashtuns-this is a slightly different matter but it proves the same point that it is very possible as it has often been believed that to merge with pashtuns is even harder because of the difference in mentality.

I believe this debate is more or less over unless Chak Bamu or someone else has another reply though I would most like a reply that challenges the 2 solutions I proposed. I thank everyone for participating. This has been the most insightful look and I think I can write another paper from it: The myth of Muhajir identity & possible solutions
 
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Yes i will accept you as a sindhi, you live in sindh, you speak either sindhi or urdu but you will adopt the culture of sindh and learn History of Sindh, You are truly a sindhi, I infact consider all muhajirs Of karachi Urdu speaking Sindhis cuz they all live in sindh, Pushtoons And balochs are also Muhajirs in karachi same as muhajirs from India migrated they migrated from Sarhad now KPK and baluchistan in search of jobs, Its their Right Cuz we all live in same Nation and we should tolerate each other.



I will call you sindhi brother, How long will pakistanis call you muhajirs of Karachi because MQM thinks they are Muhajirs!! Well pushtoons and baloochs also live in Karachi they also came from their ancestral land to karachi to settle and find jobs so they also become Muhajirs right?

If you consider us Sindhi then why in majority of government offices muhajirs or urdu speakers are not given job ! Come to karachi you will see in govt. offices most of sindhis and you will hardly find some urdu speakers ! I will call myself Sindhi if we are treated as Sindhi ! and what you call this "karachi is sindh" , we all know karachi is part of sindh so why these sindhi nationalist dont accept us as Sindhi !! If you want us to call ourself Sindhi first treat us like a Sindhi !!
 
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If you consider us Sindhi then why in majority of government offices muhajirs or urdu speakers are not given job ! Come to karachi you will see in govt. offices most of sindhis and you will hardly find some urdu speakers ! I will call myself Sindhi if we are treated as Sindhi ! and what you call this "karachi is sindh" , we all know karachi is part of sindh so why these sindhi nationalist dont accept us as Sindhi !! If you want us to call ourself Sindhi first treat us like a Sindhi !!

Oooopss.... this is my fault. He was just trying to be nice. Dexter my point was in this thread that basically this "Muhajir identity" is a false term we (our families) are keen to maintain, not anyone else which is why I requested Rafay comment on this thread. With this you proved it.

Its migrants fault, dexter, even Quaid e Azam expected us to merge within the fabric-not adopt a separate identity. In 47 60% of population of Karachi was Sindhi. Now urdu-speakers at about 70% and Sindhis at 7 or 8%. Would be nice to show some respect... Sindhis opened doors for migrant families and hosted them in their homes. A lot of us would have died hungry and cold and now we want to find reasons for dividing with our brothers on basis of something as small as ethnicity and that also a blanket term like "muhajir"? Before 47 you can ask anyone how clean and beautiful Karachi was. It had almost no crime. In 84 MQM came around later coming to power through so-called "Muhajir" votes.

Think of the term muhajir. Who are we? Disparate people with differing cultural practices... for example I am a lucknowite very different from perhaps a Madrasi muslim who came to Pakistan, I can't eat his food, I can't understand why he wears the weird clothes he wears and due to his relative small population in Madras compared to others he has been forced to adopt local languages too while our families urdu is pure. So we are totally different. We can unite with different people just because they migrated but we are going to take offense at a Sindhi brothers opinion? Everyone can fight-everyone is pulled by ethnicity and race. I want to end this tradition @Dexter. These things should go in the background, disappear as they have in almost every developed nation. Muhajir identity is largely a myth-we take it too seriously. You know what this word means? Pilgrim. Now how are our families pilgrims? It never occurred to us to abandon this derogatory term?

Rafay only commented because I asked him to, he doesn't want to get involved in this kind of debate because of this reason. Your reply is actually to me because I called him here. Please do not blame the Sindhi. I want to end this culture exactly in my community. The point I was making was for two MQM supporters who said Muhajir identity was imposed on them by other ethnic groups that called them that. I wanted to tell them if they came to the thread again they were very wrong in this case, Rafay's statement was to act as a seal-proof that the communities expected us to merge with them. It was our families that refused to do so and adopted separate identity. Its a very good solution, it is good for our self-respect to adopt either original identity or sindhi identity.

Rafay is my brother-Sindhis sacrificed their provinces capital and gave it as a gift to urdu-speakers in a silk, wrapped gift-bag. Now why we are treating them as some kind of enemy? Their language is being replaced by urdu and we all know most migrants speak urdu. We still can't see that things favor migrants? We should apologize to them and do more to give them rights.

I don't understand what Rafay's fault is? How he is responsible for Sindhi's being in government offices (though these statistics are unproven until statistics are brought forth)? Put this behind you dexter. We have to put this behind us. The moment someone says something we start arguing and fighting, this is our problem that we aren't disengaged from ethnic identity. We never try to understand why other person is saying something. I thought not being from MQM will help you understand this thing, brother. Also Rafay is not a Sindhi nationalist. Only reason I called him here was for a very simple question I wanted to ask him to reiterate a point I made.

Personally my advise is for muhajirs to merge as Sindhis. But when an identity is imposed for a very long time it can be difficult for a person to challenge it, to question it which is why naturally you feel offended. But the question is why we don't feel offended and want to call ourselves Muhajir when it is a derogatory term which means "pilgrim"? We live in the largest cities with highest HDI in the country-what kind of justice is labeling ourselves Muhajir?-I openly state that this word is so vile I feel it is like being called a donkey. This is a great opportunity but these identities are like solid walls in our heads. We find it a monumental task to challenge what they represent. If we let these walls fall we will find unity and strength as Pakistanis.

I am and have in most ways merged as a Pashtun even though from childhood we are told the two groups mentality, thinking and ways are far different. So this isn't difficult. Sindhis are gradually losing language too in favor of urdu slowly. It is no difficult task if we try but we have to decide what we want- a distinct separate identity or an identity that unites our country.

Also do note how ethnicity can become a source of hatred. I have been saying the same thing @dexter for past 5-10 or so posts. But Rafay saying it and because he is not from your ethnicity you are taking offense? See how divided we are,
Why you don't challenge me then? You surely noticed I was the one who called him here? This is the entire issue of Pakistani society and goes on to show the level of ethnic polarization.

Also this part:
so why these sindhi nationalist dont accept us as Sindhi

Was exactly what I was trying to prove false. Even Sindhi nationalists have accepted you and called migrants Sindhis. You can check the last speech of JSQM leader for more info. Again, leave Rafay. This entire thing is my handiwork and it is me... a muhajir by birth or you may someone who has been imposed with this discriminatory term known as Muhajir by family and relatives. So there is no way you can bring someone else into this.
 
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Oooopss.... this is my fault. He was just trying to be nice. Dexter my point was in this thread that basically this "Muhajir identity" is a false term we (our families) are keen to maintain, not anyone else which is why I requested Rafay comment on this thread. With this you proved it.

Its migrants fault, dexter, even Quaid e Azam expected us to merge within the fabric-not adopt a separate identity. In 47 60% of population of Karachi was Sindhi. Now urdu-speakers at about 70% and Sindhis at 7 or 8%. Would be nice to show some respect... Sindhis opened doors for migrant families and hosted them in their homes. A lot of us would have died hungry and cold and now we want to find reasons for dividing with our brothers on basis of something as small as ethnicity and that also a blanket term like "muhajir"? Before 47 you can ask anyone how clean and beautiful Karachi was. It had almost no crime. In 84 MQM came around later coming to power through so-called "Muhajir" votes.

Think of the term muhajir. Who are we? Disparate people with differing cultural practices... for example I am a lucknowite very different from perhaps a Madrasi muslim who came to Pakistan, I can't eat his food, I can't understand why he wears the weird clothes he wears and due to his relative small population in Madras compared to others he has been forced to adopt local languages too while our families urdu is pure. So we are totally different. We can unite with different people just because they migrated but we are going to take offense at a Sindhi brothers opinion? Everyone can fight-everyone is pulled by ethnicity and race. I want to end this tradition @Dexter. These things should go in the background, disappear as they have in almost every developed nation. Muhajir identity is largely a myth-we take it too seriously. You know what this word means? Pilgrim. Now how are our families pilgrims? It never occurred to us to abandon this derogatory term?

Rafay only commented because I asked him to, he doesn't want to get involved in this kind of debate because of this reason. Your reply is actually to me because I called him here. Please do not blame the Sindhi. I want to end this culture exactly in my community. The point I was making was for two MQM supporters who said Muhajir identity was imposed on them by other ethnic groups that called them that. I wanted to tell them if they came to the thread again they were very wrong in this case, Rafay's statement was to act as a seal-proof that the communities expected us to merge with them. It was our families that refused to do so and adopted separate identity. Its a very good solution, it is good for our self-respect to adopt either original identity or sindhi identity.

Rafay is my brother-Sindhis sacrificed their provinces capital and gave it as a gift to urdu-speakers in a silk, wrapped gift-bag. Now why we are treating them as some kind of enemy? Their language is being replaced by urdu and we all know most migrants speak urdu. We still can't see that things favor migrants? We should apologize to them and do more to give them rights.

I don't understand what Rafay's fault is? How he is responsible for Sindhi's being in government offices (though these statistics are unproven until statistics are brought forth)? Put this behind you dexter. We have to put this behind us. The moment someone says something we start arguing and fighting, this is our problem that we aren't disengaged from ethnic identity. We never try to understand why other person is saying something. I thought not being from MQM will help you understand this thing, brother. Also Rafay is not a Sindhi nationalist. Only reason I called him here was for a very simple question I wanted to ask him to reiterate a point I made.

Personally my advise is for muhajirs to merge as Sindhis. But when an identity is imposed for a very long time it can be difficult for a person to challenge it, to question it which is why naturally you feel offended. But the question is why we don't feel offended and want to call ourselves Muhajir when it is a derogatory term which means "pilgrim"? We live in the largest cities with highest HDI in the country-what kind of justice is labeling ourselves Muhajir?-I openly state that this word is so vile I feel it is like being called a donkey. This is a great opportunity but these identities are like solid walls in our heads. We find it a monumental task to challenge what they represent. If we let these walls fall we will find unity and strength as Pakistanis.

I am and have in most ways merged as a Pashtun even though from childhood we are told the two groups mentality, thinking and ways are far different. So this isn't difficult. Sindhis are gradually losing language too in favor of urdu slowly. It is no difficult task if we try but we have to decide what we want- a distinct separate identity or an identity that unites our country.

Also do note how ethnicity can become a source of hatred. I have been saying the same thing @dexter for past 5-10 or so posts. But Rafay saying it and because he is not from your ethnicity you are taking offense? See how divided we are,
Why you don't challenge me then? You surely noticed I was the one who called him here? This is the entire issue of Pakistani society and goes on to show the level of ethnic polarization.

Also this part:


Was exactly what I was trying to prove false. Even Sindhi nationalists have accepted you and called migrants Sindhis. You can check the last speech of JSQM leader for more info. Again, leave Rafay. This entire thing is my handiwork and it is me... a muhajir by birth or you may someone who has been imposed with this discriminatory term known as Muhajir by family and relatives. So there is no way you can bring someone else into this.
@haviZsultan I am not blaming Rafay ! Man you take it seriously :) , im just telling you the truth ! Actually we live in Karachi we know what is going on in our city ! I consider myself a Pakistani rather than Sindhi , punjabi , etc !
 
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@haviZsultan I am not blaming Rafay ! Man you take it seriously :) , im just telling you the truth ! Actually we live in Karachi we know what is going on in our city ! I consider myself a Pakistani rather than Sindhi , punjabi , etc !

The thing is everyone calls himself a Pakistani rather than anything else... but as the comment proved these identities actually lie deep inside us. I realized this a long time ago and despite being a staunch Nationalist where leaders believe any allusion to ethnic identity is an issue... but the thing is your post proved and our voting preferences as well prove that we make decisions heavily on the basis of ethnicity. The ethnic identity disappears only for a while but it is right within us and the moment someone says something we take offense. Ideally everyone should only think of Pakistan and ethnic identity shouldn't even matter but this is not even happening. The identity becomes dormant at times but it wakes up like a beast whenever the discussion comes to Sindhi/Baloch/Pashtun/Punjabi. This means that another approach is needed where perhaps the ethnic identity may have to be accepted by Nationalists.

Personally I also call myself Pakistani and would like to not refer to myself as anything else. But the reality is far different. For example you would not have said what you said about Sindhi's if you weren't too attached to this imposed ethnic identity. The issue is in all of us. We just are not capable of thinking with anyone elses eyes and pointing out our own faults. I promise you our families start caring for and respecting others and start looking at their own faults we can be the vanguards for a massive change and the disappearance of ethnic issues in the country.

I described a number of stages in the cycle of a person slowly abandoning this discriminatory term, Muhajir:
1) Disassociating Muhajir identity with MQM
2) Questioning the MQM
3) Taking a more nonchalant approach to Muhajir identity
4) Criticizing the faults of Muhajir leaders and Muhajir identity

5) Learning more about this blanket term for a number of ethnic groups while looking down your nose when it comes to other ethnic groups. Questioning Muhajir identity itself
6) Disassociating with Muhajir identity by either reclaiming original ethnic identity or merging (No reason it is impossible-Punjabis, a lot of them don't even know Punjabi nowadays, very easy to merge with them or with others)

You are at number 3 or 4 I believe. But the process of disengaging from race or ethnicity cannot stop here. Do not be so defensive about ethnicity, challenge it. Fight how seriously this ethnic identity is taken in our country and we can be the harbingers of a change so massive in this country it will change our destiny. We do not need more divisions.

I am in Karachi too... and what I see here is surprising. Migrants are racist to everyone, why we are seeing Sindhis? Did Jinnah want us to become like this? I think we have to play a role now in breaking down these identities... especially discussing the failure of this imposed blanket term known as muhajir upon us. Who even cares if there are more Sindhis in government offices in Sindh (if it is true-there are no statistics provided in this regard) than anyone else? Pakistan matters or just one community? We have to take a more nonchalant look at ethnicity and be ready to criticize it.
 
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