Special forces of India

[COLDHEARTED AVIATOR]

We know that they understand the danger of it better than us. So we don't need to worry.

http://i39.tinypic.com/2w3753k.jpg

BTW that pic of MARCOS released by the ministry of defence not another journo or photographer.

Ya..that is where the Army needs to understand the risks.

I am sure we all will be able to recognise the Para commandos and those SPG guys if we meet them in a market or mall...the faces need to blurred before releasing the pic.

And WE all need to be responsible..including the govt.

 

[boris]

the prices of objects in the NSG poster are crap utter crap,

a few distinctions

the classic AK-47 comes with a wooden butt
the one with the adjustable butt is the AKMS
the black colored AK47 with NSG and the bodyguards are actually bulgarian AK's
romanian AK's are also used.
indian ordinance factory produces the AKM

now last i read romanian/soviet made AK's cost india 50 dollars a piece(no i didnt forget a zero)

the bulgarian ones the fully black ones cost around 6500 INR

chinese made one's which are a favourite amongst terrorists cost the same as the bulgarian one

now classic AK47,AK74,AK103 are produced by izhmash in russia and it is the sole legal producer of the AK 47(as said by them)what price they charge i have no idea.

now the AK's you hear for a lakh are possibly the black market ones distrubted to gangster types like the one sanjay dutt had obtained i have heard a few nort-easterner's boast that it is possible to get one from their states at those price's.

hence 2 lakhs for an AK is crap,moreover NSG primarily relies on the MP-5 for assault teams.

now coming to the glocks ,a glock 17 costs 30000 INR even in military sales the price is 10 times as quoted,in parts of US you get it in 25000 INR.

thermal imagers for 18 lakh ,these idiots dont even know thermals are used in sights,sniper rifle scopes ,binocs and some sort of NVG configuration by CT forces,special forces this is another highly overstated price.the multicolored MRI scan type humans you see in action movies when snipers are using their sights is the thermal imager at work.

 

[saumyasupratik]

the prices of objects in the NSG poster are crap utter crap,

a few distinctions

the classic AK-47 comes with a wooden butt
the one with the adjustable butt is the AKMS
the black colored AK47 with NSG and the bodyguards are actually bulgarian AK's
romanian AK's are also used.
indian ordinance factory produces the AKM

now last i read romanian/soviet made AK's cost india 50 dollars a piece(no i didnt forget a zero)

the bulgarian ones the fully black ones cost around 6500 INR

chinese made one's which are a favourite amongst terrorists cost the same as the bulgarian one

now classic AK47,AK74,AK103 are produced by izhmash in russia and it is the sole legal producer of the AK 47(as said by them)what price they charge i have no idea.

now the AK's you hear for a lakh are possibly the black market ones distrubted to gangster types like the one sanjay dutt had obtained i have heard a few nort-easterner's boast that it is possible to get one from their states at those price's.

hence 2 lakhs for an AK is crap,moreover NSG primarily relies on the MP-5 for assault teams.

now coming to the glocks ,a glock 17 costs 30000 INR even in military sales the price is 10 times as quoted,in parts of US you get it in 25000 INR.

thermal imagers for 18 lakh ,these idiots dont even know thermals are used in sights,sniper rifle scopes ,binocs and some sort of NVG configuration by CT forces,special forces this is another highly overstated price.the multicolored MRI scan type humans you see in action movies when snipers are using their sights is the thermal imager at work.

Romanian?Aren't the skeleton folding stock AK's the East German MPi KMS-72's?I do know the MPi's used bakelite furniture and some also use the upper handgrip of bakelite and lower of wood.

The romanian AK's you are talking about which ones are those specifically?Pm Mod.90's?Or Mod 63's and 65's?Mod 90's are those which have skeleton folding stock like that of MPi's and Mod 63 and Mod 65 resemble the AKM and AKMS respectively also do they have the foregrip like this?
http://fragcdo.files.wordpress.com/2008/02/aeg_detail_ak_aims.jpg?w=468

Or normal like the ones in MPi's?This is the export version of the Md 90.
http://www.arms.home.ro/arms/cugir1/pag/6.html

 

[saumyasupratik]

Also what AK variants are being used by the Indian Armed Forces?If you can enlighten on the variants being used that would be very helpful.

AKM/AKMS - Original Russian Stamped Reciever AK, I believe Polish KBK PMKM's are also used they have more fairer wooden furniture the Russian origin AKM's in comparison have darker wood.


MPi KM/KMS-72 - Former East German stamped receiver AKM having bakelite furniture overall some versions have a lower foregrip made up of bakelite and the upper one of wood.


Arsenal Co. AR/AR-F - Bulgarian Type 3 Milled receiver AK.

A lot of people say that India also use Romanian AK's like Pm Mod 63/65 and Pm Mod. 90.The export versions of of these don't have the integrated wooden vertical foregrip.The Pm Mod. 90 in comparison looks a lot similar to the skeleton folding stock MPi KMS-72 just Mod 90 has wooden foregrips while the MPi has bakelite ones.

Also I've seen a few photos which I speculate are of Indian manufactured AK's.These ones seem to have a the furniture of the INSAS and seem to be just like the MPi KMS-72's only difference being the furniture of INSAS on the Indian ones.

 

[boris]

romanians are used in the IA,they were imported after insas failed in cold weather.some 100000 rifles were imported at 170$ a piece.

the czech vz58 is also used and is amongst the fav. variants of the special forces.

rest you have mentioned.

 

[boris]

oh yes the insas furniture one is made by ordinance factory and is given to infantry regiments.

 

[saumyasupratik]

romanians are used in the IA,they were imported after insas failed in cold weather.some 100000 rifles were imported at 170$ a piece.

the czech vz58 is also used and is amongst the fav. variants of the special forces.

rest you have mentioned.

The Romanian ones are without vertical foregrip and look very similar to the MPi KMS-72?Like this
http://www.arms.home.ro/arms/cugir1/pag/6.html

Do you have a source confirming that we use the Romanian ones and if you can for the Polish one too?
Also Vz. 58 isn't an AK based weapon it has a different mode of operation only the round is same.

 

[boris]

The Romanian ones are without vertical foregrip and look very similar to the MPi KMS-72?Like this
http://www.arms.home.ro/arms/cugir1/pag/6.html

Do you have a source confirming that we use the Romanian ones and if you can for the Polish one too?
Also Vz. 58 isn't an AK based weapon it has a different mode of operation only the round is same.

i do remember reading a newspaper article some 2-3 years back about the problems with INSAS where romanian AK's were mentioned ,i just talked to an ex-army lt.col ,the romanian AK's arent actually romanian but in reality soviet made AK's which romania got during the warsaw pact times that too at real dirt cheap rates for them it was a great deal as they were getting 170$for each piece.

i havent heard of polish AK's, i doubt india ever got them from poland.bulgarian AK has been very famous and said to be by some americans better than its russian counterpart.

though vz.58 isnt AK type but for its caliber it is a great rifle.

though many ex-SF say including the ex-delta force "larry vickers" the new AK's are the next gen 47 due to easy attachment of sights,optics and ofcourse the 7.62 round. i have heard good things about the AK103,but still in 5.56 format if now i want a rifle that i can use and abuse and is very tough would no doubt be the HK416 its deadly,doesnt jam in sand and water and it can be turned to SOPMOD real easily of the new stock this and the LWRC SABR are my new favourite rifles.

 

[boris]

oh and the romanian AK i mentioned which werent romanian are the ones india bought,it is said that we didnt buy the romanian produced AK47

 

[Abingdonboy]

oh and the romanian AK i mentioned which werent romanian are the ones india bought,it is said that we didnt buy the romanian produced AK47

Come on guys... does it really matter, a country like India should/is be providing better rifles than AKs to it's most elite units (and Infantry aswell, it's the 21st centuarty and India has the $$$).

 

[boris]

Come on guys... does it really matter, a country like India should/is be providing better rifles than AKs to it's most elite units (and Infantry aswell, it's the 21st centuarty and India has the $$$).

the AK is a good weapon,doesnt jam in any terrain ,right now as you see the special forces are getting good weapons now,though i think give it another 5-6 years it'd be pleasing to look at all SF units.

 

[saumyasupratik]

i do remember reading a newspaper article some 2-3 years back about the problems with INSAS where romanian AK's were mentioned ,i just talked to an ex-army lt.col ,the romanian AK's arent actually romanian but in reality soviet made AK's which romania got during the warsaw pact times that too at real dirt cheap rates for them it was a great deal as they were getting 170$for each piece.

i havent heard of polish AK's, i doubt india ever got them from poland.bulgarian AK has been very famous and said to be by some americans better than its russian counterpart.

though vz.58 isnt AK type but for its caliber it is a great rifle.

though many ex-SF say including the ex-delta force "larry vickers" the new AK's are the next gen 47 due to easy attachment of sights,optics and ofcourse the 7.62 round. i have heard good things about the AK103,but still in 5.56 format if now i want a rifle that i can use and abuse and is very tough would no doubt be the HK416 its deadly,doesnt jam in sand and water and it can be turned to SOPMOD real easily of the new stock this and the LWRC SABR are my new favourite rifles.

It's going to be tough figuring out which AK's our forces use.
I think you read about the KINTEX deal.KINTEX is the corporation which sells the Bulgarian AR's they came to limelight after Indian chose the AR's over the much cheaper Russian AKM's and Romanian AK's I don't which version specifically.We bought the Bulgarian ones for around 200 USD each.

AK-103 is 7.62x39mm not 5.56mm NATO version.

I must say this but the Pakistan Army actually have RIS Rails on their AK's and Type 56's.We lack that capability and as far as I know not even a single Indian AK has a RIS Rail system.

Come on guys... does it really matter, a country like India should/is be providing better rifles than AKs to it's most elite units (and Infantry aswell, it's the 21st centuarty and India has the $$$).

The thing is buying or producing 500,000+ high quality assault rifles just for our army is gonna cost us a lot and is going to take a lot of time as well.We all know how good OFB is with sticking to the deadline and how good their quality is.INSAS not being an above average assault rifle is also due to their low quality control and poor worksmanship at IOF.The British L85 got saved due to H&K here in India no H&K is going to save the INSAS.I hope they design small arms or atleast buy if we cannot design new Pistols, Assault Rifles and Light Machine Guns.We don't even have belt fed light machine guns in our sections only the INSAS LMG's.

the AK is a good weapon,doesnt jam in any terrain ,right now as you see the special forces are getting good weapons now,though i think give it another 5-6 years it'd be pleasing to look at all SF units.

The only thing great our SF have as of now are Tavors and Galils that's it.They seriously need to enhance their equipment.I really hope we get much better gear and small arms for these well deserved brave men.

 

[boris]

It's going to be tough figuring out which AK's our forces use.
I think you read about the KINTEX deal.KINTEX is the corporation which sells the Bulgarian AR's they came to limelight after Indian chose the AR's over the much cheaper Russian AKM's and Romanian AK's I don't which version specifically.We bought the Bulgarian ones for around 200 USD each.

AK-103 is 7.62x39mm not 5.56mm NATO version.

I must say this but the Pakistan Army actually have RIS Rails on their AK's and Type 56's.We lack that capability and as far as I know not even a single Indian AK has a RIS Rail system.



The thing is buying or producing 500,000+ high quality assault rifles just for our army is gonna cost us a lot and is going to take a lot of time as well.We all know how good OFB is with sticking to the deadline and how good their quality is.INSAS not being an above average assault rifle is also due to their low quality control and poor worksmanship at IOF.The British L85 got saved due to H&K here in India no H&K is going to save the INSAS.I hope they design small arms or atleast buy if we cannot design new Pistols, Assault Rifles and Light Machine Guns.We don't even have belt fed light machine guns in our sections only the INSAS LMG's.



The only thing great our SF have as of now are Tavors and Galils that's it.They seriously need to enhance their equipment.I really hope we get much better gear and small arms for these well deserved brave men.

well i did mention about the ak103 having 7.62 round,the 5,56 point was that still great guns are being produced in that round.

i have heard about the KINTEX stuff ,now coming to the new stuff it just isnt tavor ,galil but m4a1's too and this i got from a friend serving in the SF ,they also have got new helmets,optics,NVG,thermals and all.

yes i know m4a1's negative points but still its a great gun.

 

[saumyasupratik]

well i did mention about the ak103 having 7.62 round,the 5,56 point was that still great guns are being produced in that round.

i have heard about the KINTEX stuff ,now coming to the new stuff it just isnt tavor ,galil but m4a1's too and this i got from a friend serving in the SF ,they also have got new helmets,optics,NVG,thermals and all.

yes i know m4a1's negative points but still its a great gun.

Okay sorry I didn't quite understand the AK-103 thing.

By equipment I meant basically small arms we do lack in the long range dedicated sniper rifles in both .308 and a longer magnum round like .300 Winchester Magnum or .338 Lapua also no Belt fed 5.56mm NATO Light Machine Guns and a good Pistol I mean Glock 17 and 19's are okay but not that great.If they can get an assault rifle in conventional layout like the SG550 series, G36, and the SCAR-L it wouldn't hurt much.I also think that the GM6 Gepard was a good choice when it came to AMR's for the Army SF.Nationalism aside you must agree our SF aren't that well equipped as compared to others I maybe wrong but this is what I think.

Yeah but we only got around 300-400 of the M4A1's through FMS.I hope they use a Rail Interface System like the Pakistan Army SSG do.

 

[saumyasupratik]

Pm Mod.90's are used as well.Most probably I hope so they are used.Here are some photos of possible Mod.90 in Indian use.

and here's a photo of the MPi KMS-72 for comparison.

If you compare them you can see a lot of difference in the Handgrip.The MPi's is made up of Plastic/Bakelite in both upper and lower handgrip also some versions have the upper of plastic and lower palmswell hanguard of wood these were pre-1967 KMS-72's in any case the upper handguard should be made up of dark brown plastic.
The Mod.90 on the other hand has both upper and lower handguard made of wood.Also lower hnadguard is the palmswell handguard like the original AKM.
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