South Korean Ships Instead of Trainer Aircraft

[BordoEnes]

no it is not, it is considered a failure in Korea and this is why there wasn't a second one. The follow-up ship will be a double-decker similar to French Mistral(which is built by Korean builder STX).

From what i knew the Dokho class LHD was a great succes even joined the Turkish LHD tender for Turkish navy requirement. And according to wikipedia its even stated that the 4 Dokho LHDs already have designated names for them. This truelly shocks me since i see S.Korea as one of the most advanced nation in the world (Top 5 for me) Building an LHD shouldnt be this hard for S.Korea since they already built 3 Different destroyers (!). Care to explain?

 

[Korean]

The word is that the Korean military decided to convert the tankers locally instead of importing.

Previously, the tanker conversion was earmarked for Israel as a part of T-50 offset package. With the Israeli rejection of T-50 and the subsequent ban on new importation of new Israeli weapons system(Systems where Israel is the prime vendor only. Israeli parts in non-Israeli weapons are OK), the tanker project was switched to local procurement instead.

In Korea, new passenger jets are allowed to serve passengers for 15 years, then are converted as cargo planes for the remainder of life. The military plans to convert some of these ex-Passenger jets into tankers.

 

[Luftwaffe]

Because it's faster and flies higher than M-346. It can fire real weapons too, unlike M-346.

It will come within 90% of an F-16 Block 52's flying profile with the upgraded F414 engine.

Assuming Israel has money. They are actually short on cash.

How high would T-50 want to fly about, what an unprofessional statement, M-346 has a credible profile and has gone through several Tests including weapons Testing that is why different variants are officially on offer.

Here a link M-346 has even Tested medium range light weight antiship missiles, So Yes real weapons are Tested-Fired including A2A and A2G and antiship..
http://www.mbda-systems.com/mediagallery/files/marte_mk2_A_ds.pdf

Hardpoints: Provisions provided for a total of 9 pylon stations (2× wingtip, 1× under-fuselage plus 6× underwing), capable of mounting up to 3,000 kilograms (6,600 lb) of external payload and up to 3× 630 litres (140 imp gal; 170 US gal) external drop tanks (only pylon stations 4, 5, 6 are wet-plumbed)
mixed load of all types of Russian and western air to air (short to medium range) and air to ground dumb and smart bombs.

Israelis are buying M-346 according to their requirements, no need to flairup, T-50 is US product with s. korean stamp, at this point of time the most successful next generation design is M-346/YAK-130 that offers good enough similar to what T-50 is offering. Even if you declare it more Taiwanese design-input remember FCK-1 was designed with assistance of US, sorry man you info is wrong. But T-50 has its own profile and M-346/YAK-130 has its own operators would procure it according to their needs, if it is rejected it is rejected for a reason.

Please, it will never come with-in even 50% of F-16 block 52 profile, US will never allow it, trainer is trainer will be.

Actually isrealis are not short on cash I can list you fortune 500 companies along with famous isreali jewish belonging multibillion dollars companies many of them belong to isreali entrepreneur-businssmen-isreali citizens.

 

[lcloo]

Isreal Airforce is one of the most professional airforce in the world, they know what they are looking for in a trainer jet, i.e to train good quality pilots. Using a trainer jet for other purposes like ground attack or air to air battle will only happen only if a country is having tight defence budget, or they are having fast depletion in in air assets during a war.

I think there is no shortage of dedicated role aircraft types and numbers in Israel airforce. Thus it hardly justify for them to buy more expensive trainer jet whose A-G and A-A capability might never be used at all. More important to IA is to use a trainer jet where it shines, i.e. to produce good pilots who can handle advance jets with professional skills.

 

[anonymousposter]

i dont know anything about military matters, but i wanted to point out some things.

military procurement ALWAYS have a political angle. this is true whether we are talking israels choice to buy m-346 or south koreas choice to buy f-15k.

but the story appears to be that t-50s strenghth is also its biggest weakness. sure the t-50 can do much more than a m-346. but these countries are looking for a cheap trainer, not a f-16 lite. both italy and korea started to dangle all sorts of goodies to tempt the israeli. but italy stands by israel when israeli heilicopters start pounding palestine. korea stays silent.

of course, korea chose to put israeli electronics instead of american ones. this was probably a big mistake for korea and korea might wind up paying for not facing the political reality. the really big game is what the USAF will choose. if Korea dont get this, its game over.

 

[Korean]

More important to IA is to use a trainer jet where it shines, i.e. to produce good pilots who can handle advance jets with professional skills.

The problem is that M-346 is not good enough to train pilots who can then climb into the cockpit of F-22(Ok, this may not matter since F-22 is not for export) and F-35; pilots who are trained on M-346 must then fly an F-16D as a representative of F-35. With T-50, there is no such issues because a T-50 closely proximate the flying profile of an F-16D, including high-altitude, going supersonic, etc.

This is why the USAF wants a supersonic jet for the T-X trainer, because the T-X trainer needs to train F-22 pilots who can then put into the cockpit of an F-22 without an F-16D conversion training.

 

[500]

M346 is a designated trainer, it has adoptable aerodynamics, very high alpha (40 degrees), small wing loading, low maintenance cost.
T-50 is basically a scaled down F-16 fighter.

T-50 has small wing area and little internal fuel for its size. Thats not good for training at all. It can go supersonic, but only for few minutes due to limited fuel, does not make much sense. T-50 is good for poor countries who cant afford both designated fighter and designated trainer and want fighter/trainer combo.

Also Koreans employed very aggressive negotiation policy using threats. No one likes that.

 

[anonymousposter]

like i said, everything depnds on what USAF thinks. Israel and Singapore thouught m346 was good enough for their needs. if usaf chooses t-50, then that pretty much decides the winner right there.

i have no idea what bird us will choose... but it is worrisome that korea put ELTA products in this Lockheed bird. US probably dont like that. i guess we'll see.

 

[Korean]

of course, korea chose to put israeli electronics instead of american ones.

The only "Israeli" electronics is the radar for F/A-50. That will be yanked as soon as the local AESA rader becomes operational.

What's odd is that the T-50 proposal for USAF T-X is based on Korean avionics(Being developed for KFX), instead of Lockheed Martin one on earlier T-50 blocks. So while ROK T-50 flies with Lockheed Martin avionics, the USAF T-50 may fly with Korean avionics. Even weirder is the fact that the launch customer for the Korean avionics system is Indonesia.

the really big game is what the USAF will choose.

AETC chief: New trainer to free up fighters - Air Force News | News from Afghanistan & Iraq - Air Force Times

AETC chief: New trainer to free up fighters
By Scott Fontaine - Staff writer
Posted : Thursday Feb 17, 2011 12:45:29 EST
ORLANDO, Fla. — The Air Force’s newest supersonic trainer jet should free up more fighters to deploy overseas, according to the officer who oversees the service’s training and education command.

The military has pledged $300 million across the Future Years Defense Program starting next year on a replacement for the workhorse T-38 trainer. Gen. Edward Rice of Air Education and Training Command told reporters Thursday the T-X trainer and high-fidelity simulators should put fighters “back in the hands of the operators.”

Rice didn’t share many details about the procurement process because the service hasn’t made a decision on specifics of the new craft, but the service wants the new trainer to closely match the capabilities of fifth-generation fighters.

The Air Force has bridged pilot training between the T-38 and the F-22 by putting trainees in F-16s — a situation Rice called “a temporary measure that is adequate.”

“We’re looking at the needs of a fifth-generation fleet,” Rice said. “We don’t have dual-cockpit systems in the F-35 or F-22, so there’s a need to both modernize what a trainer can do and get away from some of the sustainment costs of the trainer. We’re looking at all of that, and this year should be an important year for the T-X program.”

The USAF T-X "supersonic" trainer replaces both T-38 and F-16D trainers. So which trainer can replace F-16D for training?

 

[Luftwaffe]

The USAF T-X "supersonic" trainer replaces both T-38 and F-16D trainers. So which trainer can replace F-16D for training?

Not aware US is looking to replace F-16D too early.

Too early to predict that US may invest into T-50 GE for their next generation Trainers, so far worthy contender is M-346.

We have also read on Janes Defense replacement of T-38 delayed until 2020, possibly US could come up with its own next generation Trainer or by that time which ever platform excelled technologically which seem to me M-346 with isreali inputs could become a natural one.

 

[Korean]

Not aware US is looking to replace F-16D too early.

Because of the T-38's performance deficiencies, the USAF uses F-16D as a representation of a real fighter jet for F-35 pilots. This is why the USMC pilots who enter a conversion training from the Harrier are flying F-16Ds to get used to the kind of flight performance offered by F-35.

What the USAF wants is to have the T-X trainer fill the F-16D's role and send the F-16D back to the front line.

We have also read on Janes Defense replacement of T-38 delayed until 2020,

The winner will be selected in 2016. The new IOC is 2020.

possibly US could come up with its own next generation Trainer

The USAF has ruled this out as they won't fund the development of such a new platform. They will buy off the shelf.

by that time which ever platform excelled technologically which seem to me M-346 with isreali inputs could become a natural one.

The M-346 simply cannot replace the F-16D, and the USAF is forced to keep the F-16D for training role, which they are trying to avoid. This is why Lockheed is planning to replace the USAF T-50's engine from F404 to F414, because the T-50 needs more power than it has now to suit the USAF's needs of a trainer that flies like an F-16D.

 

[Thomas]

Italy signed contract for the AWACS and has had a pretty uncompromising policy on Iranian oil imports, while Korea imported happily until late last month.

S.Korea, Taiwan, S.Africa cut Iranian oil imports

RoK along with other countries still buy Iranian oil. However in the future you will see that start to change since Iran has been cut off from the world banking system. This makes Gold the prefered meens for payment. this leads to a problem though with available gold reserves of given countries. The last thing they want is the price of gold shooting up to high from increased demand as they seek to replace gold reserves that have been used.