South Asians Eating Grass to Acquire Nuke Subs

[JonAsad]

One nuclear sub- and we all can rest in peace-

 

[KRAIT]

One nuclear sub- and we all can rest in peace-

bus ek aur bomb, bus ek aur submarine, bus ek aur plane....tumhari demand to khatam hi nahin hogi

 

[Tshering22]

Pakistan has said it will take steps to maintain the credibility of its nuclear deterrence after India's decision to acquire a Russian nuclear attack submarine on a 10-year lease. "We are looking at these developments very closely. Rest assured, there will be no compromise in terms of maintaining the credibility of our deterrence," Pakistan Foreign Office spokesman Abdul Basit was quoted by the media reports as saying at a news briefing in December, 2011.

Now there are strong rumors in the media indicating that Pakistan is preparing to build its own fleet of nuclear-powered and nuclear-armed submarines to complete its nuclear triad for effective deterrence primarily against the regional threat posed by India's massive arms buildup.

A Pakistani defense analyst Mansoor Ahmed recently told Defense News that he has for some time believed Pakistan was working on a nuclear propulsion system for submarine applications and that Pakistan already has a functional submarine launched variant of the Babur cruise missile.

Pakistan's Babur cruise missile is very similar to the U.S. BGM-109 Tomahawk, and it can be carry conventional or nuclear warheads, according to Ahmed.

Ahmed says Pakistan is now gearing up to build its own SSN/SSGN flotilla as a way of deterring India and maintaining the strategic balance in South Asia. However, Ahmed argues that Pakistan should build ballistic missile submarines. to fully ensure the credibility of its deterrent.

Here are some of the advantages of nuclear submarines:

1. Atomic weapons abroad nuclear submarines can be more survivable and useful for second strike capability which is considered vital for nuclear deterrence.

2. Nuclear propulsion, being completely independent of air, frees the submarine from the need to surface frequently, as is necessary for conventional submarines; the large amount of power generated by a nuclear reactor allows nuclear submarines to operate at high speed for long durations; and the long interval between refuelings assures a range limited only by supplies such as food. Current generations of nuclear submarines never need to be refueled throughout their 25-year lifespans.

3. Pakistan does have some AIP (air-independent propulsion)equipment on some of its current fleet of conventional submarines, which can stay submerged for longer periods to significantly boost their stealth and combat capabilities, somewhat narrowing the gap with nuclear-powered submarines which of course can operate underwater for much longer periods.

The rumors have not been confirmed or denied by Pakistani military. But if the past history is any guide, it's quite safe to assume that Pakistan will continue to effectively respond to all military threats to its security and preserve credible nuclear deterrence. It has already produced and deployed a significant nuclear arsenal consisting of uranium and plutonium bombs, ground-based nuclear-capable ballistic and cruise missiles, air-launched nuclear missiles, modern fighter-bombers, tactical nuclear weapons, etc.

In their attempts to preserve their nuclear deterrence, Pakistanis are often reminded of a quote from former Pakistani Prime Minister Zulfikar Bhutto's speech in which he said, "If India builds the bomb, we will eat grass and leaves for a thousand years, even go hungry, but we will get one of our own". Well, Pakistanis didn't have to wait for a thousand years. Pakistan tested its nuclear bomb in 1998, about three decades after Mr. Bhutto's "we will eat grass" speech.

Pakistan does have a hunger and malnutrition problem that needs to be seriously addressed as a priority. However, all of the available data from international sources shows that the hunger problem is far worse in India, with hundreds of millions of its citizens going to bed hungry every night as Pakistan's neighbor and traditional rival continues its massive arms build-up.

Here's an excerpt from Times of India on persistent and pervasive hunger in India:

With 21% of its population undernourished, nearly 44% of under-5 children underweight and 7% of them dying before they reach five years, India is firmly established among the world's most hunger-ridden countries. The situation is better than only Congo, Chad, Ethiopia or Burundi, but it is worse than Sudan, North Korea, Pakistan or Nepal.

Today India has 213 million hungry and malnourished people by GHI estimates although the UN agency Food and Agriculture Organization (FAO) puts the figure at around 230 million. The difference is because FAO uses only the standard calorie intake formula for measuring sufficiency of food while the Hunger Index is based on broader criteria.

I believe that there can be no real national security without economic security. Even as they struggle to maintain credible nuclear deterrence against external threats, it's important for Pakistani leadership to take steps to revive Pakistan's ailing economy with a renewed sense of urgency.

Haq's Musings: Pakistan to Build Nuclear Submarines?

India spends slightly above 2% of its GDP in defense. That leave 97-something % of money on development.

Riaz Haq needs to stop hyphenating his country with ours.

It was Pakistan-India until Cold War... not after the whole bubble of propaganda by US/CENTO countries burst.

 

[danger007]

Pakistan has said it will take steps to maintain the credibility of its nuclear deterrence after India's decision to acquire a Russian nuclear attack submarine on a 10-year lease. "We are looking at these developments very closely. Rest assured, there will be no compromise in terms of maintaining the credibility of our deterrence," Pakistan Foreign Office spokesman Abdul Basit was quoted by the media reports as saying at a news briefing in December, 2011.

Now there are strong rumors in the media indicating that Pakistan is preparing to build its own fleet of nuclear-powered and nuclear-armed submarines to complete its nuclear triad for effective deterrence primarily against the regional threat posed by India's massive arms buildup.

A Pakistani defense analyst Mansoor Ahmed recently told Defense News that he has for some time believed Pakistan was working on a nuclear propulsion system for submarine applications and that Pakistan already has a functional submarine launched variant of the Babur cruise missile.

Pakistan's Babur cruise missile is very similar to the U.S. BGM-109 Tomahawk, and it can be carry conventional or nuclear warheads, according to Ahmed.

Ahmed says Pakistan is now gearing up to build its own SSN/SSGN flotilla as a way of deterring India and maintaining the strategic balance in South Asia. However, Ahmed argues that Pakistan should build ballistic missile submarines. to fully ensure the credibility of its deterrent.

Here are some of the advantages of nuclear submarines:

1. Atomic weapons abroad nuclear submarines can be more survivable and useful for second strike capability which is considered vital for nuclear deterrence.

2. Nuclear propulsion, being completely independent of air, frees the submarine from the need to surface frequently, as is necessary for conventional submarines; the large amount of power generated by a nuclear reactor allows nuclear submarines to operate at high speed for long durations; and the long interval between refuelings assures a range limited only by supplies such as food. Current generations of nuclear submarines never need to be refueled throughout their 25-year lifespans.

3. Pakistan does have some AIP (air-independent propulsion)equipment on some of its current fleet of conventional submarines, which can stay submerged for longer periods to significantly boost their stealth and combat capabilities, somewhat narrowing the gap with nuclear-powered submarines which of course can operate underwater for much longer periods.

The rumors have not been confirmed or denied by Pakistani military. But if the past history is any guide, it's quite safe to assume that Pakistan will continue to effectively respond to all military threats to its security and preserve credible nuclear deterrence. It has already produced and deployed a significant nuclear arsenal consisting of uranium and plutonium bombs, ground-based nuclear-capable ballistic and cruise missiles, air-launched nuclear missiles, modern fighter-bombers, tactical nuclear weapons, etc.

In their attempts to preserve their nuclear deterrence, Pakistanis are often reminded of a quote from former Pakistani Prime Minister Zulfikar Bhutto's speech in which he said, "If India builds the bomb, we will eat grass and leaves for a thousand years, even go hungry, but we will get one of our own". Well, Pakistanis didn't have to wait for a thousand years. Pakistan tested its nuclear bomb in 1998, about three decades after Mr. Bhutto's "we will eat grass" speech.

Pakistan does have a hunger and malnutrition problem that needs to be seriously addressed as a priority. However, all of the available data from international sources shows that the hunger problem is far worse in India, with hundreds of millions of its citizens going to bed hungry every night as Pakistan's neighbor and traditional rival continues its massive arms build-up.

Here's an excerpt from Times of India on persistent and pervasive hunger in India:

With 21% of its population undernourished, nearly 44% of under-5 children underweight and 7% of them dying before they reach five years, India is firmly established among the world's most hunger-ridden countries. The situation is better than only Congo, Chad, Ethiopia or Burundi, but it is worse than Sudan, North Korea, Pakistan or Nepal.

Today India has 213 million hungry and malnourished people by GHI estimates although the UN agency Food and Agriculture Organization (FAO) puts the figure at around 230 million. The difference is because FAO uses only the standard calorie intake formula for measuring sufficiency of food while the Hunger Index is based on broader criteria.

I believe that there can be no real national security without economic security. Even as they struggle to maintain credible nuclear deterrence against external threats, it's important for Pakistani leadership to take steps to revive Pakistan's ailing economy with a renewed sense of urgency.

Haq's Musings: Pakistan to Build Nuclear Submarines?

no wonder if you get thanks from pakistani members. anywayzz u came back, happy returns. we missing so much of funny articles. a true legendary troller of this century.

 

[jjande2]

what do u have to say about this its the same BBC source

 

[RiazHaq]

India spends slightly above 2% of its GDP in defense. That leave 97-something % of money on development.

Riaz Haq needs to stop hyphenating his country with ours.

It was Pakistan-India until Cold War... not after the whole bubble of propaganda by US/CENTO countries burst.

India lies about its real defense spending. If military pensions, nuclear weapons reactors, J&K rifles and Coast Guard are included, India's defense budget exceeds 3.5% of GDP, according to Indian Defense analyst Col Pavan Nair.

Here's an excerpt from his January 2010 article:

"The cost of military pensions in the current year is Rs 21,790 crores. This was the entire outlay on defense till as late as 1993-94 and excludes the further hike in pensions announced in the budget for personnel below officer rank amounting to Rs 2,100 crores. The cost of the MoD which includes the outlay on the JAKLI and the Coast Guard, as also the defense accounts department, canteen department and its own secretariat is Rs 3,170 crores. Both these items taken together (Defense Services Estimates, Civil) are debited to several sub-heads under the General Services head. The CPMFs involved in border management, an important aspect of external security (Assam Rifles, BSF, ITBP, and the Sashastra Seema Bal or SSB) cost Rs 11,397 crores. These forces come under the operational control of the army during war just as the Coast Guard comes under the control of the navy. This cost along with the cost of other para-military forces is debited to the Police sub-head within the General Services head. As stated earlier, it is not possible to compute the cost of the nuclear arsenal but post the nuclear deal, we are aware that 35% of reactors are for military use, therefore the cost to be added to the defense budget could be assessed by adding 35% of the budget of the DAE and DOS which is also responsible for the development and testing of longer range ballistic missiles and satellites for military purposes. This amounts to about Rs 4,456 crores. This is a conservative estimate. Thus the official defense budget amounting to Rs 1,41,703 crores excludes an amount of Rs 40,813 crores or 29% of the allotment. DE in aggregate amounts to Rs 1,82,516 crores which is above the 3% GDP limit specified by the EFC. Unfortunately, defence analysts ignore this aspect when discussing the defense budget. Splitting DE amounts to obfuscation and should be avoided since it can confuse planners and parliamentarians alike.
In addition, the cost of border fencing, border roads and military aid to several countries like Afghanistan, Tajikistan, Nepal and Bhutan running into thousands of crores is shown in the expenditure of various other departments and ministries. "

Haq's Musings: India's Arms Buildup: Guns Versus Bread

 

[AbhimanyuShrivastav]

Hmm.. Didnt Pakistan Human Development index got downgraded to Low from Medium in 2011 making it the only country in South Asia to have a LOW HDI..

Another Bogey thread from the friendly Blogger Riaz Bhai

 

[danger007]

---------- Post added at 11:36 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:36 PM ----------

[/COLOR]

India lies about its real defense spending. If military pensions, nuclear weapons reactors, J&K rifles and Coast Guard are included, India's defense budget exceeds 3.5% of GDP, according to Indian Defense analyst Col Pavan Nair.

Here's an excerpt from his January 2010 article:

"The cost of military pensions in the current year is Rs 21,790 crores. This was the entire outlay on defense till as late as 1993-94 and excludes the further hike in pensions announced in the budget for personnel below officer rank amounting to Rs 2,100 crores. The cost of the MoD which includes the outlay on the JAKLI and the Coast Guard, as also the defense accounts department, canteen department and its own secretariat is Rs 3,170 crores. Both these items taken together (Defense Services Estimates, Civil) are debited to several sub-heads under the General Services head. The CPMFs involved in border management, an important aspect of external security (Assam Rifles, BSF, ITBP, and the Sashastra Seema Bal or SSB) cost Rs 11,397 crores. These forces come under the operational control of the army during war just as the Coast Guard comes under the control of the navy. This cost along with the cost of other para-military forces is debited to the Police sub-head within the General Services head. As stated earlier, it is not possible to compute the cost of the nuclear arsenal but post the nuclear deal, we are aware that 35% of reactors are for military use, therefore the cost to be added to the defense budget could be assessed by adding 35% of the budget of the DAE and DOS which is also responsible for the development and testing of longer range ballistic missiles and satellites for military purposes. This amounts to about Rs 4,456 crores. This is a conservative estimate. Thus the official defense budget amounting to Rs 1,41,703 crores excludes an amount of Rs 40,813 crores or 29% of the allotment. DE in aggregate amounts to Rs 1,82,516 crores which is above the 3% GDP limit specified by the EFC. Unfortunately, defence analysts ignore this aspect when discussing the defense budget. Splitting DE amounts to obfuscation and should be avoided since it can confuse planners and parliamentarians alike.
In addition, the cost of border fencing, border roads and military aid to several countries like Afghanistan, Tajikistan, Nepal and Bhutan running into thousands of crores is shown in the expenditure of various other departments and ministries. "

Haq's Musings: India's Arms Buildup: Guns Versus Bread

get a life buddy. can you post some thing credible or other than haq's basshing

 

[illusion8]

ISLAMABAD:

The government on Saturday appointed Abdul Wajid Rana as the new finance secretary in the wake of a recent report by the International Monetary Fund (IMF) exposing the vulnerability of Pakistan’s economic policies.

In its recent report on the state of the country’s economy, the IMF has unearthed that, in a bid to hide the real budget deficit, Pakistan’s expenditures were understated by Rs317 billion and revenues overstated by Rs215 billion.

Abdul Wajid Rana was earlier serving as the economic affairs division (EAD) secretary. He will be the sixth finance secretary appointed during the four years of the Gilani government. Outgoing finance secretary Dr Waqar Masood has served at the position three times.

Rana confirmed that he has been posted as secretary finance. Sources said Dr Waqar Masood has been appointed as the EAD secretary, but it was not yet clear whether he would assume charge.

In 2008, too, the government had appointed Masood as the EAD secretary, but he refused to assume charge and remained an officer on special duty for quite a few months. He had said in a plea that he would not serve as EAD secretary, which, according to him, was a comparatively less important slot.

Before being made the EAD secretary, Rana had been special finance secretary for a short period. He also remained the economic minister in Washington for four-and-a-half years. He was originally brought back to Pakistan to be posted as secretary finance, but, sources said, the Presidency rejected the move initiated by finance minister Dr Abdul Hafeez Shaikh. Rana has also served in Sindh and Khyber- Pakhtunkhwa as finance secretary. He served with Hafeez Shaikh in Sindh and is credited for being responsible for a surplus in the provincial budget.

Analysts said the biggest challenge for the new finance secretary would be to control increasing expenditures and present realistic budget figures. He would also be exposed to extreme pressure from the government to maintain and continue a loose fiscal policy in a bid to lure voters ahead of the general elections.

The IMF has presented a reforms package in its report that promises a budget consolidation of up to Rs215 billion through a combination of expenditure cuts and increase in new taxes.

Economic woes: Finance secretary changed in wake of IMF report – The Express Tribune

 

[RiazHaq]

Hi,
Wake Up Mate....We are Lifting million's of people out of poverty EVERY YEAR!
YOU Don't have Money To spend.... So It's YOUR Problem Not Ours
Eat Whatever You Want

ThankYou

India’s total external public debt has risen to $326 billion while foreign exchange reserves have dropped to $293 billion, according to the RBI data reported by the Indian Express newspaper.

The Reserve Bank of India is concerned over the increasing shift from equity to debt to fill India's widening current account gap. The latest available data indicates that foreign debt inflows in January so far have amounted to $3.21 billion versus $1.7 billion through equity inflows.

Recent $1.1 billion bail-out of Reliance Communications by state-owned Chinese banks is the clearest indication yet that the situation is also becoming dire in India's private sector with its mounting foreign debt.

With its external debt higher than its reserves and growing twin deficits, India is also bankrupt. And it's starving its children to satisfy its ego.

Haq's Musings: Is India Heading Toward Debt Crisis?

Here's an excerpt of a recent BBC story of Indian children eating dirt to survive:

In Ganne, just off the main road about an hour south of the city of Allahabad, this is a simple fact of life.

It is home to members of a poor tribal community, who live in small huts clustered around a series of shallow quarries.

Inside one of the huts sits a little girl called Poonam. She is three years old, and in the early stages of kidney failure.

Like many children in Ganne she has become used to eating bits of dried mud and silica, which she finds in the quarry. Tiny children chew on the mud simply because they are hungry - but it is making them ill.

When reports first emerged of children eating mud here local officials delivered more food and warned the villagers not to speak to outsiders. But Poonam's father, Bhulli, is close to despair.

BBC News - Diet of mud and despair in Indian village

 

[INDIAISM]

*India is planing to invest around 1 trillion dollars in its Infrastructure in Next 5 years....Canada eyes India for investment in trillion-dollar infrastructure plan
*2011-2012 India will be allocating around 10 billion$ for Education...The Times of India on Mobile
*We are introducing a Food security bill of around 20 Billion $...

Now let see wether you can compete with us here or wether your politician will just let you eat grass to fulfill their Nuclear Sub Dream

 

[illusion8]

ISLAMABAD:

The limited nature of the welfare schemes that are meant to reduce poverty and help the indigent sections of the citizenry is driving many people to beggary. The sight of beggars on every turn of the road adds to national gloom and promotes the feeling of despondency. While beggary may have become a lucrative profession for the many, there are among them those few too whom circumstances have forced to this life of shame. Qalandar Hassan belongs to this category.

Hassan who belongs to Farash township of Islamabad lost the use of both of his arms and legs after a long bout of typhoid fever in 1996. The paralysis deprived him of his sole source of making a living, a tea kiosk which the Capital Development Authority (CDA) took away after his illness. He was unable to pay its rent.

“I will always remember the first time I went out to beg. We had been starving for a week and our better off relatives and friends had refused to provide any help.” Qalandar broke into tears narrating his tale of woe to the Express Tribune. Initially his wife supported him, but poverty soon laid her down with tuberculosis leaving the family of seven without any source of living. His eldest son Imran, now 15, is asthmatic and is not of much help.

“I wonder if I will ever have a life free of poverty and illness again,” said Hassan helplessly seated on his broken wheelchair, his back covered with sores due to prolonged use of the chair.

Narrating his experiences, Hassan said he had approached the Ministry of Social Welfare as well as the Pakistan Baitul Mal for the treatment of his wife and son but to no avail.

When nothing worked out for his family, beggary seemed to be the only way out. One of his neighbours took him to Blue Area on his cart and dropped him on the footpath of a busy road. On his first day at ‘work’ he was able to collect Rs150 from which he purchased flour for his family. This was something he had never imagined fate would make him do.

“I want to go to school but it is not possible,” said Hassan’s younger son who pulls his father’s chair on their begging rounds.

When Pakistan Baitul Mal’s Managing Director, Zamurad Khan’s attention was drawn to the plight of Hassan, who was once a diehard jiyala of the ruling Pakistan People’s Party, he said PBM’s funds were limited but all efforts are being made to provide financial assistance to the needy and destitute. Khan claimed the PBM was previously receiving Rs8 billion from the government which had now been reduced to Rs2 billion, which is not enough to meet needs of every disabled person.

He said this was the first time that PBM had been made corruption-free which had encouraged private donors to donate funds.

Hassan’s story is not unique to a single household; in fact it tells the tale of countless such families who due to their circumstances are forced to pay futile visits to social welfare offices. Their miseries leave several questions on the credibility of both public and private welfare organizations, who claim to be working for the disabled, orphans and the destitute.

The welfare organisations may be right and striving to help the marginalized of the society but then who is responsible for the plight of Hassan and many others like him. Despite having a CNIC for the disabled, they are not getting financial support. Why do we have people amongst us who suffer at the hands of diseases that become incurable only because of their financial status?

During the time when PPP is in power, a strong PPP activist who has given his entire life to the party is currently leading a terrible life due to his health condition. Hassan also remained in prison for five years when Bhutto was hanged during Zia regime.

He appealed to the President Asif Zardari for financial help as he does not want o continue this humiliation and undignified life.

Social ills: Poverty driving people to beggary – The Express Tribune

 

[AbhimanyuShrivastav]

Also, only a person totally ignorant of how pensions work would count Pension outlay as a part of defense budget, because that would amount to double counting. Because every year, as a part of annual wages, a money is set aside for future pension of jawans/officers. The same money is accumulated in a fund that pays for the pension down the line. So the pensions being paid today were part of money set aside as a part of wages in previous years and was counted as a part of defense spending in those years. So that money was already counted in the defense spending in the year it was set aside. And therefor counting it again in the year it was distributed would result in double counting..

So as I said Mr Haq, good try, but no cigar

 

[illusion8]

ISLAMABAD:

As pressure mounts on the government to spill out the number of people living below the poverty line, it has finally agreed to bring a three-year drought to an end.

After dragging its feet for over three and a half years, the government surrendered to the demand of firming up latest poverty figures, an exercise that may establish how much Pakistan Peoples Party led-government did for the welfare of masses.

“The Planning Commission will analyse data collected by the Statistics Division and may firm up poverty numbers in a couple of months,” said Planning Commission Deputy Chairman Dr Nadeemul Haque while talking to The Express Tribune. He said the government will hire competent people to carry out the analysis, as the Planning Commission does not have required expertise.

The current government had refused to endorse 2007 poverty figures and still considers 2006 figures as the last authentic available numbers. In 2006, 22.3 per cent people lived below the poverty line. According to 2007 unofficial statistics, the level fell to 17.2 per cent.

“The 2008 poverty figure was a fraud that was not even endorsed by any renowned economist or poverty expert,” said Dr Haque.

The poverty figures were missing in the Economic Survey of Pakistan 2010-11 for the third straight year. However, the survey did suggest that the poverty rate may have increased to 43 per cent.

Any person earning less than $1.25 per day is considered poor and below the poverty line, according to the World Bank.

Haque sees economic growth as the goal that will automatically address the poverty issue. He said that the Centre for Poverty Reduction and Social Policy Development was abandoned and replaced with the Growth Centre.

The exact number of people living below the poverty line will be available after a couple of months but experts widely expect that at least four out of ten people are living below the poverty line. The government recently released the Household Integrated Economic Survey 2010-11 that provides a glimpse of poverty and inequality in the country.

This survey showed that average monthly household expenditures increased 53 per cent while average monthly income rose 50 per cent over the last three years.

Data shows that the lower and middle classes were affected the most by spurt of inflation and declining incomes. There was an average increase of over 58 per cent in monthly household expenditures of the middle class against an increase of slightly over 50 per cent in income.

For the lower middle class, the increase in income was only 44 per cent while average increase in consumption was 55 per cent. For the poorest of the poor, the increase in average monthly expenditures was 53 per cent against 45 per cent increase in income.

The Statistics Division said that HIES provides the requisite data on consumption to the Planning and Development Division for poverty estimates, leaving the government with no other option but to firm up the numbers.

The Asian Development Bank (ADB) estimates that every 10 per cent increase in food prices pushes 2.2 per cent of Pakistan’s population below the poverty line. The finance ministry had estimated that food prices have surged 94 per cent since its last poverty survey. If ADB’s estimates hold across several years, poverty in Pakistan has increased to 43 per cent.

According to the Economic Survey, nearly three-fourth population lives very close to the poverty line and very small changes can push very large number of people below it, while relatively medium-paced economic growth can also bring several million people out of poverty as well.

Poverty rate: Three years on, govt decides to redraw the line – The Express Tribune

 

[Trisonics]

So if India stopped building nuclear subs her poverty would disappear? Amazing knowledge which points directly at why Pakistanis struggle when it comes to Scientific paper publication but do very well publishing rubbish in blogs.