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South Asia Air Forces: PAF counters IAF strategy

It’s good if your AF got that metal, AF alone can’t win wars, and we have no issue as long as these articles make u happy. It more or less sounds like blowing your own Baja.

Well why don't you try to blow your own?

It's an open discussion, try to bring about something which can counter this baja.

Angoor tu khatay hain he..kahin bans na honay ki waja say been bhi tu nahi gum gayee..
 
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Air forces play a very crucial role in a war if the PAF gets destroyed in a war then the IAF will be free to conduct strikes on pakistan whenever it wants so it is important to have a strong air force but as you said the PAF is barely half made.So what can we do?The only thing the pakistan air force can do is use strategy so what would be better?
1:If there is a war should the PAF start it with a surprise attack to Attempt to diable the IAF by Attacking air basses or
2:it should stay on the defensive and counter any breach by the IAF into pakistani air space?
can anyone share their thoughts with us?
Thanks:pakistan::pakistan:
 
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luftwaffe

India & China do not have any where near the Hostility level towards each other that india & Pakistan have.

There is virtually no chance that PLAAF will engage IAF at the same time as PAF.

WHICH MEANS in a indo pak conflict 90% of india,s planes will be stationed to war on Pakistan.

China will not attack india in the next indo pak dust off.
Well i think China and india both have to worryy....
Interestingly, Bareilly, which already has two squadrons, has been earmarked as the “hub” for Sukhoi operations in the eastern sector. Some of the fighters have even been fitted with Israeli reconnaissance systems to enable them to “look” 300 km into China without crossing the border.

The Sukhois and the 3,500-km-plus nuclear-capable Agni-III missile, which will be ready for operational deployment by 2010 or so, constitute a crucial part of the “affordable nuclear deterrence” posture against China.

The Northeast and Ladakh placement of Su IAF jets threatens China and attempts to intimidate the Pakistanis. The Pakistan Airforce (PAF) has taken corrective actions and for the first time since 1947 may achieve parity with the IAF. India attempts to threaten China from Ladakh & Northeast

The above mentioned are a few quotes from my earlier posts, this would give you a fruitful thought to understand the indian intentions and the Chinese concerns.

Moreover, who says that it is necessary fro China to physically attack indian in and event of indo-Pak war!

Making the indian commit their resources towards China during the war would do the job. And it is obvious that it would have to as indians will never empty their pockets towards China as now they know that they are working against Chinese interest while having a Civil Nuclear deal with the US, fueling insurgency in Baluchistan and making Afghanistan ready to compel Pakistan to commit its forces on its western borders.

Don't you know one of the reason for Pak-China friendship is to keep the indians at bay in an event of indian attempt of subjugating China with the american help. Everybody knows that the US has chosen india as a counter-weight to Chinese influence in the sub-continent.
 
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WOW..... J11 its an excelent news.
But my question: Is it really a good Idea to have jets of different design? I mean, we have F 16's then JF 17, then F10's and now F11.
 
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WOW..... J11 its an excelent news.
But my question: Is it really a good Idea to have jets of different design? I mean, we have F 16's then JF 17, then F10's and now F11.

I don't think we're getting J-11s and we don't need them he J-10s are just as good.The J-10s have defeated J-11s in alot of computer simulations.
 
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WOW..... J11 its an excelent news.
But my question: Is it really a good Idea to have jets of different design? I mean, we have F 16's then JF 17, then F10's and now F11.

We already ahve quite a variety of equipment in every field, but this doesn't mean that it becomes difficult for us to use it. Fulfilling the requirement is the first priority, ease of use and maintenance though kept in mind comes second.

Moreover, each of these jets have a different role.

Countries by fighter keeping in mind the following:

Maintaining air superiority or air parity (though air supremacy is not with the reach of Sub-Continental countries)

Fighter/Ground attack crafts.

Interceptor air crafts.(though this concept has died down now and counties want all in one fighters that can perform all the above tasks) for this purpose we would have to by jets like Raptor, Eurofighter Typhoon etc etc, which we can't afford!
 
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Well, I wanted to say was that 1 sq. of F16 2 sq. of J10 and mix of these. Dont you think that making such small mixes can make the strategy makers a bit confuse about where to use where?
 
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Well, I wanted to say was that 1 sq. of F16 2 sq. of J10 and mix of these. Dont you think that making such small mixes can make the strategy makers a bit confuse about where to use where?

This can make a good strategy but the people who make them must know how to execute them in the correct manner.
 
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Can you tell me how did u arrived at the figures of the Serviceability of aircrafts ? MKI has been locally produced and most of spares are available in House against PAF F-16 ,then again Mirage-III/IV having 70% Serviceability against 50 % Serviceability of Mig-27 ?? Hello which is the older airframe here ?? How many Mirage-III/IV where locally produced in Pakistan ? You talked about upgrades to Mirage-III/IV but you completely ignored the facts that Mig-27 has been upgraded with New Darin-2 Avionics upgrade so Did Jaguars ,with Jaguars manufactured locally and almost 90% spares made locally ,Recently New Squadron was formed in IAF around Newly build Jaguar Airframe ,With Mig-29 and Mirage-2000 upgrades in pipeline it will be good enough to counter J-10/J-17 Combo
 
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The Thread is extremely biased.

Serviceability of a brand new $40 million dollar plane license built in india is being questioned. (su30mki)

The indians are opening up new previuosly unused air strips with regional workshops to maintain this vry powerful MR fighter. It is the backbone of the IAF with 230 PLANNED BY 2012.

China we are told is almost certain to pull troops along india<s Northern border to deter India and split its much larger air force.

i DOUBT CHINA will want a massive BUILD up of tension with a increasing powerful india who is also rather freindly with USA these days.
 
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I have to voice my agreement-in-principle with Maverick2009's last post; though it is certain that Indian deployment to the Western border would be negatively affected by Chinese posturing (the consequences of a Chinese RRU moving to a border 'WZ front,' as they call it, would be correspondingly higher); simply assuming that this would be the case is at best only a display of naïve-optimism. China's actual demeanor towards a Pakistan-India military confrontation would be best estimated from its outright refusal to lend diplomatic support in the Kargil conflict to the wait-and-see attitude adopted during the mobilizations in the Punjab in 2002.

Additionally, the attitude of several posters in this thread (including the OP, no offense to anyone) seems to indicate a general disregard for the IAF's technology and training; while it is okay to be generally patriotic, arrogance arising out of excessive nationalism should be avoided insomuch as a serious discussion is desired.

A note on the Flanker: the low-intensity airspace conflict in the Sudan has highlighted the potential effectiveness of this aircraft in the Air Superiority role. Its capacity for PGM's makes it a potent strike fighter for the IAF. the The Flanker threat should not be taken lightly, bravado notwithstanding.

Assuming the possibility of a limited conventional conflict between Pakistan and India that involves the air forces (and this is quite an assumption if the Kargil War was anything to go by), the IAF should be able to rotate its most effective formations to the area of conflict. The alleged disparity in combat value would then drop off. I am reminded of an incident during the Kargil War that most choose to ignore (will attempt to provide citation and retract if none available): PAF F-16's aborted a CAP near the LoC after some Indian jets (possibly Flogger M's, given their BVR advantage to PAF's early model F-16s) achieved lock-on with long range AAM guidance radar.

Whereas the PAF might enjoy a qualitative edge over the IAF and might be closing the quantity gap, the rather low possibility of a general conflict will prevent the PAF from fully exploiting such superiority as might exist. It is more likely that the air forces of both sides will be limited to local air superiority missions and close air support, contrary to active theater-interdiction and preemptive installation strikes where the PAF's strengths could truly shine (one might argue that cruise missiles have already - at least partially - divested the air force of these roles). Additionally, Pakistan's own preference for a limited war might undermine the effectiveness of its military machine, as it passes theater initiative over to the Indians and forces us to adopt a defensive posture in other areas of the theater, necessitating force commitments against a potentially inferior, but far more numerous enemy.

The most recent large-scale CAS exercises I can think of were conducted in 1988 under Operation High Mark '89 in Operation Zarb-y-Momen highlighted several operational shortcomings:

Out of 412 sorties planned for close support, 324 sorties were achieved. Post-exercise analysis revealed certain problems related to poor radio contact with the FACs, non-availability of updated maps, navigation problems related to the improper selection of Contact Point (CP), and lastly, delays in mission tasking, leaving insufficient time for mission planning.
Source: Pakistan Military Consortium

While it would be great that the level of co-ordination between the services has grown since the late '80s, the fact that the PAF was not even in dispersal at the outbreak of the Kargil War seems to indicate otherwise. Additionally, It should be noted that 1988 was a good year for the PAF, the climax of a period of tremendous modernization and combat experience as a result of Pakistani involvement in the First Afghan War (although, to be fair, CAS was not a mission profile much employed in that conflict). Similarly, the role of the PAF in the ongoing counter-insurgency operations in the Frontier has not been publicized much, and it remains to be seen how effective it would be in that role, considering the general failure of the NATO air forces in Afghanistan and Yugoslavia in the recent past.

On the flip side, the allegedly direct involvement of PAF advisors in Sri Lankan offensive operations over the last two to three years, and the evident success of the same, could mean that the PAF has adequate doctrinal emphasis on CAS missions.

@ the OP: No disrespect, but the tit-for-tat 'counters' you have suggested for Indian strategy, regardless of how effective, serve to indicate that the PAF's own strategy is non-existent and follows t least one step behind India's. At a time when most advanced nations are switching over from counter-strategy to asymmetric strategic positioning, this view is somewhat simplistic and, possibly, mistaken.

Thus ends my first post here at PakDef. Hello, everyone!
 
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Avmuneeb welcome to the forum. and thank you for agreeing. its good see discussions thinking without getting blind by paitrotic ferver...
 
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Can you tell me how did u arrived at the figures of the Serviceability of aircrafts ? MKI has been locally produced and most of spares are available in House against PAF F-16 ,then again Mirage-III/IV having 70% Serviceability against 50 % Serviceability of Mig-27 ?? Hello which is the older airframe here ?? How many Mirage-III/IV where locally produced in Pakistan ? You talked about upgrades to Mirage-III/IV but you completely ignored the facts that Mig-27 has been upgraded with New Darin-2 Avionics upgrade so Did Jaguars ,with Jaguars manufactured locally and almost 90% spares made locally ,Recently New Squadron was formed in IAF around Newly build Jaguar Airframe ,With Mig-29 and Mirage-2000 upgrades in pipeline it will be good enough to counter J-10/J-17 Combo
Well, it is not us who call Mirage-III/IV as flying coffins and again they have not been falling off the sky like stone.

We had accidents regarding the Mirages, but guess what, they dont happen every next day!

And what fun the local production of Migs, their newer airframes and its up gradation brings if still they fall off the shelf like dead meat!
 
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The Thread is extremely biased.
Ya it is!

It praises the PAF and degrades the IAF, got problems?

i had very clearly written in my opening post that anyone who wants to refute can do so, but with proofs and matter. Not by just disagreeing for the sake of it.

So please bring in the links and challenge the claims that i have made in my posts, ill respectfully back out.:)
i DOUBT CHINA will want a massive BUILD up of tension with a increasing powerful india who is also rather freindly with USA these days.

Lolz...

A question:

What would you do if a dude, your next door neighbor plans on giving you a tough time as it gains strength, and that too due to his increasing intimacy with another chronic rivals of yours?

Would you duck and run, buy a new house and move there, go underground? Or would you prepare even more and try to refine your strengths so that when the time comes, you too can give him a bloody nose!

i think any sensible person who has the guts and means to be at par with the enemy will go for the second option. Unless you are already defunct!

But unfortunately China is not a deceased nation, it is more powerful then any other South Asian country currently and knows very well that the US is expanding its wings to counter it.

So what would you like us to believe that instead of increasing its strength, expanding its influence on other South Asian states and taking appropriate measures, China will crouch and sit idle while it shivers due to the increasing indo-US cooperation??

How naive, indeed.
 
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Enigma Calm down

Firstly There is not going to be no War between india & Pakistan. Mumbai bombing taught us that much. India will never start a war unless Pakistan simlpy started Bombing or taking territory.

With regards Pakistan attacking anybody let alone South ASIA most powerful nation they need to sort out their Taliban issues and increasing pressure from USA first as well as sorting out a crippling economy in debt..

As for China i think Pakistanis are looking for a Big powerful ally to suport them in case of a regional hegomistic bully india tries anthing. But believe me India is big teddy bear and pakistan won,t need china or those big lists of future JF17.J10. India is too weak in mindset to cause pakistan problems,..
 
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