Sophistication of Indian tech is now sufficient to build a Rafale

[airmarshal]

I see so many Indian posters who are fan boys of Dassault Rafale.


Aerospace industry and capacity of India is now among the best.

So do not waste money on buying 100s of Dassault Rafales. By a squadran or two.

Save the hard earned billions and build your own.

Sure it may take a bit of time, but it will be yours.

Seriously!! Is it better than Brazil? China? Indonesia? South Korea?

'Among the best' is such a hyperbole here.

India cant produce a hi tech jet like Rafale. Its very very far away in terms of technology or infrastructure. Example being that India has been asking France to let them produce some hi tech components and electronics which France has as yet been reluctant.

 

[Guynextdoor2]

The Rafale deal will certainly act as a catalyst along with the new deregulations norms adopted by the GoI, India can be a big player within 15-20 years no doubt.

I think there is industrial structure issue- not PSUs but a large private eco-system that has to emerge. That might take more time after de-regulation. Unlike IT, this requires large capex investments in plant and machinery, that comes up much slower. I might bet more on the side of 30 than 20. But boy does it have spinoffs! L&T was not a majoe marines player until the navy brought them on board, and then they used all that knowhow for starting ship-building yards. This is a true contribution to the economy- their first deliveries are six ships exported to Qatar

L&T Shipbuilding yard near Chennai delivers first vessel | Business Standard News

 

[Guynextdoor2]

Seriously!! Is it better than Brazil? China? Indonesia? South Korea?

'Among the best' is such a hyperbole here.

India cant produce a hi tech jet like Rafale. Its very very far away in terms of technology or infrastructure. Example being that India has been asking France to let them produce some hi tech components and electronics which France has as yet been reluctant.

Better than all of them for sure.

 

[Raul_AD]

Hopefully support in integrating an own AIP system is not the worst cooperation isn't it? But since HAL has experience in licence production, we shouldn't have that much of a problem to absorb ToT like we had with MDL who started from scratch. I am more worried about DRDOs performance on the development of the AIP than the lack of support of DCNS.

AIP were planed for latter subs first ones were without AIP so whats your point????

 

[ashish1]

lmao at those who are saying that we can build RAFALE.
We are nowhere the Rafale tech thats what my friends working at HAL have clearly said to me,as simple as that.
Secondly those who are screaming about Indigenous programs should understand that there will no indigenouos program unless there is an Indigenous engine and thats why AMCA has been sent to backburner for now.
FGFA and RAFALE deals are for the reason so that we can cut the technological gap as soon as possible and devlop base for private industries and at the same time maintain minimum squadrons strength for IAF.

 

[Storm Force]

India has no choice.

Rafale tech fighter can only be acquired by going abroad

IAF needs this plane now not in 2030

the cost is worth it

 

[Abingdonboy]

Better than all of them for sure.

Well China is ahead in some regards and India in other, I would hesitate to label India as "better" than China in this domain so categorically..

 

[Raul_AD]

If India started now, then they probably can make a Rafale equivalent by 2030 and by then the Chinese would have around 1000 J-20/ J-31 in service.

Best to buy both Rafale and work on making the Tejas more indigenous and more capable.

Rafale is never going to match J-20, instead of that invest in AFGA and AMCA

Rafale has become obsolete before induction agst J-20.

 

[ashish1]

What's even more amusing is to see other armchair generals to show up and seemingly defy the infallible logic provided by others in a very non-constructive way.

Let me just say, if we in Pakistan had 20 bill to burn on more fighters, and had a dire specific requirement, I would opt to spend that money on the JF-17, if the JF-17 due to design limitations could not fulfil that role, I'd like to see it go to another project maximum Pakistani input, that incorporates our industry as much as possible, promoting self sufficiency..

What will Pakistan do if youo need the fighter just tomorrow?? Will you still go for the indigenous devlopment or buy form foreign manufacturers??.
Seconldy we have not shut down any indigenous projects.LCA MK2 and NLCAMK2 are going at full speed and so LCAmk1.
Rest of the engineers are busy in FGFA,MTA,ALH,LCH,LUHe.t.c. e.t.c..Too many indigenous projects are currentl going in India so there is shortage of both funds and manpower thats why AMCA has been shelved for the time being,apart form that there is no indigenous engine for AMCA.
AMCA project will be fast tracked after the first prototype of LCAMK2.

 

[sancho]

AIP were planed for latter subs first ones were without AIP so whats your point????

That it's not their AIP that we want to install but our own system, that they agreed to that (which btw is a financial loss for them) and are supporting the implementations for it, contrary to your believes.

 

[ashish1]

Seriously!! Is it better than Brazil? China? Indonesia? South Korea?

'Among the best' is such a hyperbole here.

India cant produce a hi tech jet like Rafale. Its very very far away in terms of technology or infrastructure. Example being that India has been asking France to let them produce some hi tech components and electronics which France has as yet been reluctant.

Apart from China we are better than all the countries mentioned in your post.
Rest of your post is correct.

 

[ashish1]

i think Rafale put a huge effect on IAF enemies Airforce , which is PAF and PLAAF ... right now PAF has no answer for Rafale ... alone with Su-30 they make a deadly combination .. i think if IAF can extend the numbers of rafale with some benefits of TOT than it will be win win for IAF and indian Aeronautical industry ... and also dont miss the point that lets say french wont share full TOT , but whatever they share would be much value able to make LCA a better plane ...if IAF has rafale and Su30 in numbers even PLAAF will think 10 times to cross indian air space ...

Couldnt have said it better myself.

 

[Raul_AD]

That it's not their AIP that we want to install but our own system, that they agreed to that (which btw is a financial loss for them) and are supporting the implementations for it, contrary to your believes.

First deliver initial 2 subs which are without AIP then talk about AIP carrying subs.

 

[ashish1]

you my brother remind me of

the guy who believes that during Christmas

The store says "buy one get one free"

or

The store says "Everything 50% off"

Get this "free" and that "free".

hahah

There should be no doubt that most the components of RAFALE will manufactured here in India because that is a most importand and mandatory part of the agreement otherwise RAFALE deal will be cancelled.

 

[Gessler]

What's even more amusing is to see other armchair generals to show up and seemingly defy the infallible logic provided by others in a very non-constructive way.

Infallible logic implies having full knowledge of the matter - which even many in India cannot be having (about MMRCA/FGFA).
So how some people managed to find such information is beyond me to guess.

Let me just say, if we in Pakistan had 20 bill to burn on more fighters, and had a dire specific requirement, I would opt to spend that money on the JF-17, if the JF-17 due to design limitations could not fulfil that role, I'd like to see it go to another project maximum Pakistani input, that incorporates our industry as much as possible, promoting self sufficiency.

Maybe YOU would...but would PAF and GoP? But either way it's not like you have much choice beyond looking at Chinese
projects due to worsening relations with the West, so no wonder even if you decide to stick with JFT.

Anyway - even in India the same formula of maximizing indigenous input is being/will be followed. Infact our
more developed industrial capabilities ensure than we can manufacture almost 80-85% of such aircraft within India.
But make no mistake, if we have the choice of getting our hands on a high-end, already developed platform which
has lots of scope for further development - we will take it. Anyone who's in our position would.

The Tejas project is ongoing with 20-40 Mk-1 (IAF), 83 Mk-2 (IAF) and 46 Mk-2N (Navy) versions already outlined for
procurement and our agencies are currently working toward that goal. If needed, the numbers will be increased
to several hundred, maybe even give production contract to private companies.

BTW, "indigenous input" in planes like Su-30MKI is already much higher than what is there on JF-17. This shows
the formula isn't much different across the borders - but as we have the money, another, far more sophisticated
platform, Rafale, is being procured. Even in this a lot of stuff will be produced in India itself. For example, HAL has
contracted to produce the M88-2 engines (just like how they produce AL-31FP for MKI) and the fuselage, BEL/DRDO will produce the RBE-2 AESA radar and the all-advanced SPECTRA suite, private cos. like Reliance Aerospace will
produce the wings, SAMTEL will produce the FSO/DDM-NG optronics and HMDS, and so on.

As time goes by, we'll start adding completely home-grown systems like we did with MKI - like the RWRs, HUD-WAC,
electronics, MFDs, and outfit it with our weapons, Astra BVRAAM, new ALCMs & PGMs etc.

I will offer a much bigger explanation in the morning if you want (it's 1AM here now.)