Sophistication of Indian tech is now sufficient to build a Rafale

[Narsimha Commando]

off course, the next gen Indian version will be less capable.

But at least the step in the right direction.

if you buy Rafale now, India will be robbed of money and chances to refine its own industry and products.

yes u r right.....only option is to allow private firms in India in defence industry as theses govt. companies r good for nothing and yes true many ppl in India don't want to build the indigenous aerospace industry due to their vested interest.....but i think things will change soon if we bring private industries in a big way in aerospace industry.

 

[帅的一匹]

i wish India will induct Rafale ASAP, so that its own fighter jets industry will be devastated. Please!

 

[SarthakGanguly]

The project was highly mis managed, and it will take some time to salvage the project in time, unfortunately the way things are handled sometimes suspect some vested interests might have some stake in ensuring LCA MK2 doesn't stick to it's timeline.

My fears are similar. The delays remind me of the Arjun Mk I.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

I agree that Chinese 'invention' is ... well you know, absent. But industry they have ample. Their copying machines are working full steam to churn out more copies much quicker than their counterparts in the West. And then you have incremental improvement. Nothing ground breaking, but enough to keep the ball rolling. For example you reverse engineer a rocket. Then you make 10 similar ones. Then you add another ballast tank and adjust a few things and you (may) get a more advanced version. Certainly you won't get the path breaking new tech this way, but it works and mass manufacturing helps.

Quantity has a quality of its own. Remember Germany vs Soviet Russia?

--
Remember old golden egg story ...
man killed hen for golden egg at once...but lost it for long term
china gained in short term by killing hen / copying -stealing tech but lost for long term

Despite being on a defence forum, you guys have forgot about the DF-21D, the world's very first Anti-ship Ballistic Missile platform.

America said it couldn't be done, Russia said it couldn't be done.

But now even they admit (including the US defence department) that China's DF-21D is currently operational, and that there is "currently no defence against it".

Soon we'll have DF-21D modified with an HGV warhead, for massively increased speed, mid-flight maneuverability, low altitude, and almost doubled range. That is nearly impossible to intercept.

And according to American analysts, we can build 1000-2000 of our DF-21D's for the cost of a single carrier. Not counting the expensive planes and the thousands of personnel on board a carrier as well. And the US defence department said even one single DF-21D warhead can kill a carrier, and obviously we will not be firing them one at a time. But rather in overwhelming saturation strikes.

 

[帅的一匹]

India could probably reverse engineer this given enough time and effort but it's not how India works, India respects IPR and this brings with it many benefits- China is under an international arms embargo whilst India can shop for the very best equipment available on the open market whenever it wants.

Those western countries know that you are cash cow and they know you won't and can't reverse engineer their products. We have very strong indutrial infrastructure which you lacks of to deter the arm embargo. As a citizen of UK, you should prefer typhoon to show you are a patriot.

 

[SarthakGanguly]

--
good example..
but french super marketert is not like that ..
you need BANIA mind for french busineman
--
IAF men can/ may asked this to ferech

View attachment 144916


--
Who won..Germany or Soviet Russia?
which car you want.. german or Soviet ?

Car I want - German.
Car I buy - Chinese.(cheaper)

Relax There is something that holds back the indigenous programs.

you guys have forgot about the DF-21D, the world's very first Anti-ship Ballistic Missile platform.

Nope. We have not.

 

[帅的一匹]

If India started now, then they probably can make a Rafale equivalent by 2030 and by then the Chinese would have around 1000 J-20/ J-31 in service.

Best to buy both Rafale and work on making the Tejas more indigenous and more capable.

Indians don't have time frame, they do things per mood.

 

[SarthakGanguly]

i wish India will induct Rafale ASAP, so that its own fighter jets industry will be devastated. Please!

LOL. We don't have one.

 

[Gessler]

you are saying we will have access for futuretech that will be developed for rafale in future ?

Sure, including GaN-based radar & electronics, advanced QWIP-based IRST, active cancellation tech, conformal
radar apertures (just like PAK-FA), improved engines and more.

will it be free- i.e. included in this 22billions or we will have to seperate;y negotiate and pay for it in future ?

Yes, but not all of it. You're forgetting this amount (15,16,20 billion whatever) is not going to be paid on a single sitting
on a single deal. It will be spread over many years and over many agreements.

in aerospace industry there are no thousands of job for 126 planes

Who said Rafale orders will stop at 126? Did MKI orders stop at 140? We will easily have around 200 Rafales, even around
240-250 if it's selected for IAC-2 carrier air wing. Besides, producing 200 planes doesn't just mean producing 200 airframes,
it includes producing 200+ radars, 400+ engines, and thousands of other parts. That is easily worth over 1,000-2,000 manpower
in various facilities across the country - especially since Indian Rafale production line will be more manpower-intensive than
the one in France.

 

[Dash]

I see so many Indian posters who are fan boys of Dassault Rafale.

This shows they have no confidence in their own engineers and sientists. Which is really sad to see.

Aerospace industry and capacity of India is now among the best.

So do not waste money on buying 100s of Dassault Rafales. By a squadran or two.

Save the hard earned billions and build your own.

Sure it may take a bit of time, but it will be yours.


And above all, it will give high tech jobs to 1000s of Indians instead of exporting them to EU>

Even though we have capability, but we cant. To be honest at best its all scattered. We need a central authority like we have naval design bereue in IN to over see an inclusive development program. IF you look at AMCA development and the will and power behind it, you will get an idea what IAF is looking for. and they are very much aware of the functioning of ADA+DRDO+HAL in these matters.

There is need and it needs speed, which the existing structure cant provide, unless we do something radical its best a dream.
And regarding exporting people to EU, I have a strong feeling that with deense caps revised, there will be an inflow of foreign manufacturers to INdian defense segment which is completely untouched. We also need some clarity on policies regarding defense which will come out mostlikely in the next budget.

THe only solution (if we continue this way) is disinvestment in public sectors defence PSUs and Federal accountability from IAF.

 

[pursuit of happiness]

Despite being on a defence forum, you guys have forgot about the DF-21D, the world's very first Anti-ship Ballistic Missile platform.

America said it couldn't be done, Russia said it couldn't be done.

But now even they admit (including the US defence department) that China's DF-21D is currently operational, and that there is "currently no defence against it".

Soon we'll have DF-21D modified with an HGV warhead, for massively increased speed, mid-flight maneuverability, low altitude, and almost doubled range. That is nearly impossible to intercept.

--
Appriciate .. your work on DF
it may be this also
“Appear weak when you are strong, and strong when you are weak.”
― Sun Tzu, The Art of War
So if you say me you achived what Russia and USA cant ... g8
but where is facts . classified .. only china knowns ...
there are more question on said cliam than to believe so ..
---
China is good but is china become g8 like in league of USA and Russia in Def tech .. probably NO

 

[SpArK]

Why Rafale?

• In the MRCA competition issues of maintenance, including fuel consumption and structural reliability in its entire life cycle were taken into account, it was found that the Rafale was cheaper in comparison to its competitors from Russia and Britain.
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• IAF's doctrine of air dominance — a belief that it must have the capability to aggressively takeon emerging threats, quickly establish freedom of manoeuvre in hostile airspace and to undertake punishing deep strikes on high value targets, which would undermine the enemy's war-fighting potential.
• 
  
• French have modified the Rafale for atomic weapon delivery, which opens up the possibility of its role in imparting “second strike” capability, which is central for validating India’s posture of credible nuclear deterrence.
• 
  
• There is a genuine transfer of technology element in the deal that can energise domestic aviation industry, especially in the private sector.
• 
  
• Rafale has the teeth to undertake multiple missions including long-range air strikes, facilitated by powerful radar jammers that are part of the plane’s electronic warfare suite.
• 
  
• Rafale is a safer twin-engine aircraft, which the IAF wants to fly for the next 40 years.
• 
  
• IAF also is a satisfied user of long standing of French fighters, going back to the Dassault Ouragan in the 1950s.

Dassault Ouragan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia​

• India obtained French clearance during kargil to urgently adapt Israeli and Russian-supplied laser-guided bombs to the Mirages.
• 
  
• France’s steadfastness as a military ally contrasted strongly with that of the US, which stopped F-16 deliveries to Pakistan (but kept the money) when it found it expedient to do so, and slowed or vetoed delivery of components for Light Combat Aircraft that India was developing.

• Weapons are mostly French-made, and thus not subject to a third-party embargo, but so are all of its sensors.
• 
  
• IAF needs 150 new fighters by 2020 to compensate for scheduled retirements, assuming that a few squadrons of Mig-21 and Mig-27 upgraded versions labour on even beyond 2019.
• 
  
• India will look more closely at the 55-60 squadron force that the IAF was once envisaged to grow into. At such a time LCA MK-2 and MMRCA lines will certainly be an asset.
• 
  
• These fighters may lack 'all aspect' stealth but their overall characteristics in an electronic support environment will keep them more than competitive against most enemy aircraft.

 

[pursuit of happiness]

Car I want - German.
Car I buy - Chinese.(cheaper)

Relax There is something that holds back the indigenous programs.


Nope. We have not.

---
i afford chinese but aspire german
so need to balance both
india . areal india started since 1991 onwards . so long jounry to both govt , industry , people to learn world game

 

[帅的一匹]

LOL. We don't have one.

Although i hate you guys buying Rafale, i 've got to say Rafale is the best choice in hand. Those Russian jets suck.

 

[jugad]

i wish India will induct Rafale ASAP, so that its own fighter jets industry will be devastated. Please!

Our fighter jet industry? LOL.
If anything the TOT from rafale deal , no matter how small or irrelevant it is, will act as an impetus to our FUTURE fighter jet industry.