So, here's a thought (PAF and ANAF relations)

[That Guy]

Say that to the ex-president, on TV complaining why Afghans are sending thier officer to train in india...

You say that as If we elected him, he was a dictator and is rightly being prosecuted for his crimes. Pakistanis care very little for what he has to say, which is one of the reasons why we scraped his 4 point Kashmir plan.

ANYWAYS, STAY ON TOPIC PLEASE! WE'RE GETTING TOO MUCH DERAILED!

The fact is that the Afghans urgently need a plane as soon as possible, 2015 is too far off in the distance, and by that time the insurgents could very well take the opportunity to make major gains, since air-strikes and air-support in general for Afghan forces have been on the decline, especially since that idiot Karzai forbade the ANA calling them in to assist (I understand the intention, but this is not a solution).

 

[Cyberian]

...

never gonna happen, even if the Taliban come into power, they're not gonna forget Pakistan's role of helping the Americans keep up their occupation for over a dozen years.

Insha'Allah, once the international forces leave we shall also find out who had been backing the Taliban for all those dozen years. Do you see Pakistani troops in Afghanistan fighting the Taliban?

Here's food for thought. According to General Zia-ul-Haq's son, during the 1980s there were at least 120 countries involved in helping the Mujahideen. I mean, Soviet Union's own chums and buddy were helping the Mujahideen simply because Soviet invasion of Afghanistan was considered going way too far.

 

[Argus Panoptes]

As we know, Afghanistan and Pakistan don't well like each other right now, but a thought just occurred to me.

I know this will never happen in a million years, but humor me. Since Pakistan is getting rid of it's aging fleet of Mirages and F-7s and replacing them with the JF-17s, and since Afghanistan doesn't have any fighters at all, why not donate a couple of mirages or F-7s to them (at least 2-3)? Pakistan lose nothing more than a few planes that we're trying to get rid of anyways, and gain more influence in Afghanstan. It's pretty much win-win, because even if the Afghans don't fly it, the gesture alone will be pretty effective at gaining support in Afghanistan. In turn, Afghanistan has a plane that it can use for bombing runs and air support (if they choose to operate them), which is an ability it lacks and relies mainly on foreign forces for, and makes Afghan forces less reliant on foreigners for help.

Does Pakistan have the legal right to give the aircraft to another country? If yes, who can maintain those aircraft? Your idea won't fly.

 

[MilSpec]

No chance, more than likely, they'll train in the US. India is only training local security forces like the ALP/ANP.

Afghan troops to be trained at Indian Army's jungle warfare school | NDTV.com

600 Afghan National army midlevel and High level officers will be trained by India. Under the agreement, India, which has the world's third-largest army, agreed to train, equip and build the capacity of the Afghan forces.

Btw, what how many excess defence articles does PAF have that you are proposing donating a few to ANAF?? and if there is a such a requirement I am sure US can provide military aid to afghanistan.

if situation does get dire, India can provide/facilitate russian aircrafts (say SU25KM/TM) to ANAF.

 

[That Guy]

Afghan troops to be trained at Indian Army's jungle warfare school | NDTV.com

600 Afghan National army midlevel and High level officers will be trained by India. Under the agreement, India, which has the world's third-largest army, agreed to train, equip and build the capacity of the Afghan forces.

Btw, what how many excess defence articles does PAF have that you are proposing donating a few to ANAF?? and if there is a such a requirement I am sure US can provide military aid to afghanistan.

if situation does get dire, India can provide/facilitate russian aircrafts (say SU25KM/TM) to ANAF.

Well, I stand corrected, thank you for the knowledge.

On to your second point, the PAF is getting rid of it's entire inventory of F-7s and Mirages, all I'm saying is that donating them instead of scraping them would improve relations between the two neighbors. India is free to do what it wants, it's a sovereign nation and if it feels that it wants to donate it's Migs to the Afghans, go right ahead. In the end, a stable ANA means a stable Afghanistan means a stable FATA-Baluchistan region, Pakistan wins in the end.

Does Pakistan have the legal right to give the aircraft to another country? If yes, who can maintain those aircraft? Your idea won't fly.

It gave a pair to Sri-Lanka as a gift, so I'm pretty sure Pakistan has the right to do so. Who'd maintain them? Well, Pakistan would do so in the beginning, but training the ANAF personnel to take over the job would make the ANAF independent. The only thing they'd have to worry about is spare parts, and even then since Pakistan is getting rid of their own inventory of F-7s and Mirages, they'd have a steady supply of spare parts that they could give to the ANAF.

 

[That Guy]

Insha'Allah, once the international forces leave we shall also find out who had been backing the Taliban for all those dozen years. Do you see Pakistani troops in Afghanistan fighting the Taliban?

Here's food for thought. According to General Zia-ul-Haq's son, during the 1980s there were at least 120 countries involved in helping the Mujahideen. I mean, Soviet Union's own chums and buddy were helping the Mujahideen simply because Soviet invasion of Afghanistan was considered going way too far.

But Pakistani troops did kill a bunch that ran to the tribal regions after the invasion. I have always been of the belief that China may have something to do with it. Of course I could be wrong, but having a US friendly government in Afghanistan would make China nervous and rightfully so, as the US has already declared it's intentions of keeping a permanent force of 10,000 men in Afghanistan after the withdrawal of foreign forces. There is also the factor that with helping the insurgents, they can have some leverage in any future that includes the Taliban, that way they can use the Taliban to reign in their own separatist insurgencies in Xinjiang province.

Of course, I could just be talking out of my butt.

 

[Thorough Pro]

I would have preferred one aimed at where he thinks from

I'd like to detonate a few JDAMs on Karzai's balded head instead of donating F-7s.

 

[Cyberian]

But Pakistani troops did kill a bunch that ran to the tribal regions after the invasion. I have always been of the belief that China may have something to do with it. Of course I could be wrong, but having a US friendly government in Afghanistan would make China nervous and rightfully so, as the US has already declared it's intentions of keeping a permanent force of 10,000 men in Afghanistan after the withdrawal of foreign forces. There is also the factor that with helping the insurgents, they can have some leverage in any future that includes the Taliban, that way they can use the Taliban to reign in their own separatist insurgencies in Xinjiang province.

Of course, I could just be talking out of my butt.

You are right in what you are saying. World wasn't naive that it wasn't obvious to everyone that America landed in Afghanistan to build bases around China and Russia.

In my weak opinion, the only reason why Pakistan must go through what it is enduring today is because the big guys like China and Saudi Arabia want the Americans trapped in Afghanistan for as long as possible, giving the American military a very slow and painful death. End of the day, Taliban did not start fighting until 2004 and where were they from end-2001 to 2004? Only once it became absolutely clear America was completely bogged down in Iraq, age of suicide bombings and IEDs began.

Who would've thought in 2001 that China will end up with an $8 trillion economy by the end of 2012 and that Saudi Arabia would be in the group of G20? This is a phenomenon.

I don't believe United States will keep any troops in Afghanistan from 2015 onwards - those can't wait to get out already. Lol.

 

[Mian H Amin.]

Comeon endian ... dont be ridiculous .. even if you wont have said it we could see your flag ..

 

[Gentelman]

@That Guy they are going to blew those jets in crashes and then blame youfor providing useless jets and would demand qasas of pilots died……
well F-7s can be donated but there is no point in donating Mairages with rotten airframe and so much PAC work and Upgrades……
F-7 would also be moderinized to their needs………
well we should donate them i support you……

 

[muse]

but humor me. Since Pakistan is getting rid of it's aging fleet of Mirages and F-7s and replacing them with the JF-17s, and since Afghanistan doesn't have any fighters at all, why not donate a couple of mirages or F-7s to them (at least 2-3)? Pakistan lose nothing more than a few planes that we're trying to get rid of anyways, and gain more influence in Afghanstan. It's pretty much win-win, because even if the Afghans don't fly it, the gesture alone will be pretty effective at gaining support in Afghanistan. In turn, Afghanistan has a plane that it can use for bombing runs and air support (if they choose to operate them), which is an ability it lacks and relies mainly on foreign forces for, and makes Afghan forces less reliant on foreigners for help.

Ok, I humored you and read it and I'm not amused --- please do learn a little bit about history, especially about the Tirah valley - Afghanistan with an Air force and with advanced fighter jets?? WHY?? So they can used against whom? think that one over.

Pakistan has plenty of influence in Afghanistan, unfortunately, most of it negative - examples of positive influence would be confined to the realm of commerce, development, education, medicine, not weaponry.

 

[GR!FF!N]

I'm going to ignore most of what you said, simply because I don't want to start a flame war, so I will go straight to the A-29 Super Tucano claim you made. Yes, it is going to go to the Afghans, but according to airforcetimes, they're only gonna get the first batch by 2015, not 2014 ( Super Tucano wins Afghan light air support bid | Air Force Times | airforcetimes.com ), NATO-US forces are leaving by the end of 2013 and middle of 2014, with only 10,000 troops in training and SpecOp roles. That means the Afghans will not have proper air-support for a period of at least a year, plus training and creation of proper maintenance facility fit for Afghan purposes. Even when the Afghans get this plane, it's a light trainer and lighter attack aircraft, not designed to carry more than JDAMS and SDBs in large enough numbers to make much of a difference, even a modernized F-7 can out perform it. Pakistan's "ROSE" Mirage would absolutely eclipse it in terms of performance.

The only draw back I see would be the Afghan government's reluctance of accepting it for financial reasons, as they probably wouldn't have enough money for maintenance costs.

actually they doesn't need to fight against a powerful airforce.and for ground attack,slower aircrafts are better.also,A-29 carries armaments adequate for this kinds of role(you don't need a B-52 to bomb terrorists)..all over the world,many countries including USA uses this aircraft for this role.So,I don't think F-7 is needed,which is an interceptor mainly and nor Rose,which is also supersonic..slow moving aircraft is the key to the ground role..

Comeon endian ... dont be ridiculous .. even if you wont have said it we could see your flag ..

I don't hide behind my flag..and what I said is irrefutable truth..and spell "Indian" correctly,or else I have to report against you for using "Racial Slur"..

 

[srshkmr]

What about a few LCA mk1 with kaveri engine ?

 

[Gentelman]

What about a few LCA mk1 with kaveri engine ?

first let IAF induce LCA……

 

[That Guy]

Ok, I humored you and read it and I'm not amused --- please do learn a little bit about history, especially about the Tirah valley - Afghanistan with an Air force and with advanced fighter jets?? WHY?? So they can used against whom? think that one over.

Pakistan has plenty of influence in Afghanistan, unfortunately, most of it negative - examples of positive influence would be confined to the realm of commerce, development, education, medicine, not weaponry.

Good point.

actually they doesn't need to fight against a powerful airforce.and for ground attack,slower aircrafts are better.also,A-29 carries armaments adequate for this kinds of role(you don't need a B-52 to bomb terrorists)..all over the world,many countries including USA uses this aircraft for this role.So,I don't think F-7 is needed,which is an interceptor mainly and nor Rose,which is also supersonic..slow moving aircraft is the key to the ground role..

See, I don't know about that, the USA is currently using it's fleet of F-16s for bombing runs in Afghanistan. Even if it's not an F-7, my point is that we can give them something, even if they don't have a use for it, this would be a gesture that would at least give Pakistan some positive influence in the nation.

What about a few LCA mk1 with kaveri engine ?

Not gonna happen, India won't part with a fighter jet that could very easily fall in the wrong hands (namely Pakistan).