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Skewed Islamic culture hampers growth and success

I am going to discuss a prominent but overlooked reason for the downward spiral faced by majority of muslims nations.

A boy is raised different than a girl, at least from grade 8, or puberty on wards if not before.

This is manifested primarily in the concept of "chadar and chaar diwari" that restricts girls when it comes to exposure and by large over riding any influence that internet may have positively.

The male child at the same time, is exposed to the world and develops personality traits which are based on the foreign influences. Thus causing a gulf between the female and male child.

From henceforth until graduation the male child keeps experiencing and developing newer experiencing, and the gulf between the male and female keeps increasing.

The rude awakening to reality comes when it time for marriage, and the family sets a match based on what they think the boy and the girl are like, and what they aspire. This maybe true in case of a female child, but is not the case in case of the male child who has had strong influences since he went past grade 10.

The girl's vision is mostly restricted to the "home" and considers the home her universe and battle space should her position be challenged or she should choose to challenge the mother or sisters in law.

This creates a funny and unfortunate relationship, which is possible to continue only if the boy giveup and surrenders what he has learned ( right or wrong) or face the hell that the women create due to their refusal to accept or change.

The 50% of the population's inability to change, eventually drags the whole society down, impeding growth or exploration of newer paradigms.

Share your thoughts please.
what a beautiful, concise and accurate commentary by you of our Pakistani Muslim society.
I will add 2 point

by restricting Girls, we as a nation are denying about 50% potential of our population pool.
the girls who due to compulsion or free will do step out of their homes for education or work then face harassment by the society in the social settings, be it public transport, markets or work place.

what I am saying is, that despite all the exposure and opportunities, our male segment gets, they themselves degrade themselves to thinking the worse of their female fellow citizens of this miracle of a country that is still intact by the Will of Allah Almighty,
 
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But why is West able to successfully develop itself year after year even with fornication...fornication has been a mainstay of the West since the invention of the birth control pill..but sicne then they have only grown stronger and stronger
Western "development" is based on monetization of human effort. The collective work pays the "investment" borrowed from the future... since, it is based on future numbers the work never ends, humanity becomes a salve... where every emotion is used to draw more work out of you... a few more hours after your shift ends pays you extra!
To the point that humanity makes itself redundant and obsolete.
Gateway to automation ...
Increased work paying ever less ...
Development and other such words are perfect conduit to entice and entrap.
 
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The open fornication of the western world is a recent phenomenon, compare it with the west of 100 years back and the difference is day and night, the family life is an essence of any civilisation and these policies, political and cultural shift will eventually catch up to them, the success of the western world have mostly been because they ruled the world through their colonial expansion and the wealth they amassed over the centuries from their rule, that wealth is slowly eroding overtime towards major population centres of the world mostly Asia, compare the growth and rise of China within the last 30 years and it pales in comparison to the US growth, China used more concrete in the last 3 years than the US did in the entire 20th century.


But China also has a lot of fornication compared to the Islamic world or even India.....pre-marital sex was a done thing even in early 2000s in China..so again that correlation breaks down that fornication leads to economic stagnation
 
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Western "development" is based on monetization of human effort. The collective work pays the "investment" borrowed from the future... since, it is based on future numbers the work never ends, humanity becomes a salve... where every emotion is used to draw more work out of you... a few more hours after your shift ends pays you extra!
To the point that humanity makes itself redundant and obsolete.
Gateway to automation ...
Increased work paying ever less ...
Development and other such words are perfect conduit to entice and entrap.


But still either the West or West-influenced Korea-Japan has produced every new technology of the last 200 years.....Life quality in the West is head and shoulders above the rest
 
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But China also has a lot of fornication compared to the Islamic world or even India.....pre-marital sex was a done thing even in early 2000s in China..so again that correlation breaks down that fornication leads to economic stagnation

The control that China has over the family structure and values have certainly helped in it's economic growth and progress that China made over the last 3 decades even **** is banned in China, it is common sense to believe that a healthy long term family setup provides the most healthy environment for children to be born and raised in which in turn leads to a stronger and healthier societal structure overall, instead of being born out of wedlock and or born to single divorcees, every major world renowned psychologist agrees with this statement, even western ones.

 
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A boy is raised different than a girl, at least from grade 8, or puberty on wards if not before.
First of all before I engage in this conversation: Can we agree on the fact that boys and girls are different from each other?

The male child at the same time, is exposed to the world and develops personality traits which are based on the foreign influences. Thus causing a gulf between the female and male child.
Because men have to go out and hunt down a deer for dinner, that's the reason why they need to go out and do all the networking and stuff to get along in society, so their womenfolk can have a more easy life.

From henceforth until graduation the male child keeps experiencing and developing newer experiencing, and the gulf between the male and female keeps increasing.
Boys and girls should be educated, no ifs or buts.

The rude awakening to reality comes when it time for marriage, and the family sets a match based on what they think the boy and the girl are like, and what they aspire. This maybe true in case of a female child, but is not the case in case of the male child who has had strong influences since he went past grade 10.
There are no guarantees in life. But yes, a girl born and raised in Bradford with a law degree shouldn't be nagged or forced into marrying her backwards village cousin from Pakistan.

The girl's vision is mostly restricted to the "home" and considers the home her universe and battle space should her position be challenged or she should choose to challenge the mother or sisters in law.
Unpopular popluar opinion: a womans place is her home and her children.

The 50% of the population's inability to change, eventually drags the whole society down, impeding growth or exploration of newer paradigms.
50% of the population take care of the future 100% of the population and: the more affluent a society, the more women tend to go back to the "traditional" family model.

But the main point I wanted to make is that muslims cannot progress until the 50% is brought at same pace as the other 50%.
Same pace? Men and women are different.

The thing is: we all have the notion that Muslim women are opressed and the vicitims of evil men, even though all "evil" Muslim men were raised by a Muslim woman. See, I can give you a recent example from my family. My wife and I tried to have a baby for years, a few years back we went to Turkey for vacation and my wife posted pictures of us in our big family WahtsApp group. My phupo commented: "itni patli ho, koi khushkhabri nhi?" (meaning: you are so skinny, no good news? Saying: why aren't you pregnant yet?). She later called my father and badmouthed my wife and said to him that she can't conceive and his cursed or something like that and recommended him to tell me to divorce my wife and marry her daughter instead. Fun fact: she had 2 still born baby boys and 1 miscarriage at the beginning of her marriage and I know how she begged her mother in law not to kick her out, because she said to her that she deliberately killed the baby boys just to have 3 daughters later (she has 5 kids, 3 daugthers, 2 sons who came later). The mother in law is against baby girls as grandchildren and she tells my father to tell me to divorce my wife for not having 50 children in 3 years. Such women can have all the education of the world, they still will be trash.

We need to educate our kids and make them decent people with basic manners. Then we can teach them general relativity or how to repair a car.

Women who behave like "Guys" are major turn off :meeting:
Nobody of our brown knights would marry such a woman, but they just repeat the slogans of the West.

When my father came to Germany, we struggled really hard to make ends meet. My daddy NEVER said to my mother that she should go out and get a job like most women from Turkey do. Latter are the reason btw. why a headscarf is ultimately associated with a cleaning job, but this is a story for another time. My friend from University (Turkish guy) had a family reunion two years ago and the first thing he did was to get his wife a cleaning job in a super market. Much wow! My dad worked hard and did everything he could do to support us. My mother was busy raising us kids and today all of her kiddies went to university and have decent job now.

I make six figures and I don't want my wife to work in low-skilled job, because she doesnt need to. But what I do is that I pay for all the German courses she needs and her goal is to get a German school leaving certificate because you need smart moms to raise smart kids. The ultimate goal is it to study in a important field (doctor it is :D) and make something great. Sorry, working as a cashier lady is not a career, working as secretary for another man is not a career.

And the West is not great today because of its womenfolk working or being allowed to fornicate with trees and dogs, they have free markets, they support individual rights. We have family socialism and state socialism and collectivism (dada abbu owns everything and everybody has to give him money once in a while or he will curse you).

Women working? Yes! But only in fields they were are desperately needed, no need to push a housewife to become a cashier at Aldi or Tesco just for the applause of some White perverts.
 
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Firstly,, what is Islamic culture???
Islam is a religion, religion influences culture but it doesn't define it.
For example, Islam prohibits drinking, corruption,interaction between sexes,,,, but all this happens despite the prohibition.
Secondly,, do people think that,,, if the population converts to some other religion(say hindu, buddist, Christianity) ,,, suddenly the people will stop oppressing girls and all problems related to differences in upbringing/different world view between men and women will disappear?!.
I have no liking for religions and am not defending any religion here,,,obviously not Islam. Religion tends to make otherwise normal people behave and do irrational/evil things.

But to cure a disease, one needs to diagnose it,,, know the cause.
The issue being raised by the op has less to do with religion and more to do with culture(bhayya culture).
 
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The control that China has over the family structure and values have certainly helped in it's economic growth and progress that China made over the last 3 decades even **** is banned in China, it is common sense to believe that a healthy long term family setup provides the most healthy environment for children to be born and raised in which in turn leads to a stronger and healthier societal structure overall, instead of being born out of wedlock and or born to single divorcees, every major world renowned psychologist agrees with this statement, even western ones.



my point is the fornication culture that either you or JBP rails against has been widespread in the West since the 1960s....two full generations...and still the West is going strength to strength...and I donot think unhappy marriages are good for kids..sometimes divorces are better...A kid will suffer way more if he knows his parents are trapped in an unhappy marriage due to him or her..and trust me kids as youngas 4-5 pick up on these very easily...but my main point is since 1960s the strength of West has grown by leaps and bounds...and China also has premarital sex, promiscuity, divorce and as such.....may be not as high as West...but certainly not as low as full blown poorer religious countries
 
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But still either the West or West-influenced Korea-Japan has produced every new technology of the last 200 years.....Life quality in the West is head and shoulders above the rest
As it stands the house negros get fed and clothed... they'd invariably fare better... but optics are deceiving here!
Sure talking about inanimate objects as a manifestation of human effort but when does it become flipped? When is human effort only for the acquisition of those objects and their material worth?
As it stands you noted mere two societies that stood victim to just that... all that acquisition for what really at the end! And you did work for it, more than you had to... in fact your ethics were dictated by that...
West doesn't need families...
It needs individuals!
Individuals with desires...
To achieve those you must follow the rules as laid out...
Matrix that was set the day you stepped into a public school, till your very demise!
 
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Hey @Sinnerman108, Good day to you.

First of all, this is a fact that we muslims are behind others in education and scientific areas however this isn't purely because of classical religious commandments.

A Pushtun girl in Former FATA is less likely to go to school than a girl born in Lahore or Islamabad. If this was purely because of Religion, then both parents would have followed the same teachings and stopped their girls from going to school. This implies that it has more to do with prevalent culture of that area rather than religion.
 
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As it stands the house negros get fed and clothed... they'd invariably fare better... but optics are deceiving here!
Sure talking about inanimate objects as a manifestation of human effort but when does it become flipped? When is human effort only for the acquisition of those objects and their material worth?
As it stands you noted mere two societies that stood victim to just that... all that acquisition for what really at the end! And you did work for it, more than you had to... in fact your ethics were dictated by that...
West doesn't need families...
It needs individuals!
Individuals with desires...
To achieve those you must follow the rules as laid out...
Matrix that was set the day you stepped into a public school, till your very demise!


No those objects show human ingenuity.....A car or a jet plane is not like gold of middle ages where you just have to mine them....billions of hours of high IQ thinking have went behind creating those products....acquiring those products only promote human creativity further..even a religious cleric is better served if he buys Western invented, KOrean manufactured computers, cameras, net routers, microphones, if he wants to spread his religious message further



I would say Western materialism has enabled a Golden period of religious education in Islamic world, India and Africa.....some village idiot cannot give wrong intepretation anymore as Western tech has put the best religious scholars at the devotee's fingertips
 
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my point is the fornication culture that either you or JBP rails against has been widespread in the West since the 1960s....two full generations...and still the West is going strength to strength...and I donot think unhappy marriages are good for kids..sometimes divorces are better...A kid will suffer way more if he knows his parents are trapped in an unhappy marriage due to him or her..and trust me kids as youngas 4-5 pick up on these very easily...but my main point is since 1960s the strength of West has grown by leaps and bounds...and China also has premarital sex, promiscuity, divorce and as such.....may be not as high as West...but certainly not as low as full blown poorer religious countries

Your personal opinions based on confirmation bias does not matter because I am quoting world renowned western psychologists who claim that a healthy long term monogamous relation is the best environment for raising kids, and majority of the divorce and break up between spouses in the western world is because of cheating which stems from open fornication which they practiced before getting married, of-course there would be divorce from spouses in an unhappy relations because of personality disorders etc but the divorce rates in the western world are unusually high to the extreme what reasons could that be, not every one is a narcissist or an abuser?.


The open sexual environment of the western world evolved and is continuing to evolve from the 1960's, the effects will not be overnight, I'm not saying that the western society will desolve into chaos but there will be an effect overtime, and that effect is being felt today, western men are refusing today to get married and when they are they are preferring they look for foreign eastern European or Russian women for long term relationships, look up movements like MGTOW.
 
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Your personal opinions based on confirmation bias does not matter because I am quoting world renowned western psychologists who claim that a healthy long term monogamous relation is the best environment for raising kids, and majority of the divorce and break up between spouses in the western world is because of cheating which stems from open fornication which they practiced before getting married, of-course there would be divorce from spouses in an unhappy relations because of personality disorders etc but the divorce rates in the western world are unusually high to the extreme what reasons could that be, not every one is a narcissist or an abuser?.


The open sexual environment of the western world evolved and is continuing to evolve from the 1960's, the effects will not be overnight, I'm not saying that the western society will desolve into chaos but there will be an effect overtime, and that effect is being felt today, western men are refusing today to get married and when they are they are preferring they look for foreign eastern European or Russian women for long term relationships, look up movements like MGTOW.



If that's the case then on the tech front, conservative cultures should have been able to close the tech gap with the West in the last 60 years.....but that has not happened only Korea,Japan and China have been able to do so...and out of them China is very irreligious, same with Japan....and in China the sexual mores are not as strict as in poorer religious countries....In China they donot kill girls on their wedding night if they are found out not to be virgin, as is the case in certain parts of India and in certain extremely religious countries ...

if there is a correlation between extreme conservatism and technological progress, it has not been showing up in charts and graphs
 
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No those objects show human ingenuity.....A car or a jet plane is not like gold of middle ages where you just have to mine them....billions of hours of high IQ thinking have went behind creating those products....acquiring those products only promote human creativity further..even a religious cleric is better served if he buys Western invented, KOrean manufactured computers, cameras, net routers, microphones, if he wants to spread his religious message further



I would say Western materialism has enabled a Golden period of religious education in Islamic world, India and Africa.....some village idiot cannot give wrong intepretation anymore as Western tech has put the best religious scholars at the devotee's fingertips

Looks like there's a bit of drag on axioms...
One only gets for what one aims for, isn't it?
Chinese built a "great wall" I don't see all attempting the same... hope you understand the gist of it...
There must be a need and desire to acquire a certain thing! IQ or brainfarts! Not all endeavors make through... as it stands most now are essentially directed towards a certain monetary reward.

Pardon me but I don't see human greatness in production lines! I don't...

Knowledge, tools, education, needs, aspirations or desires... lines are blurred... getting murkier by the day!
 
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freedom in west means something else in the east. in west it means public sex, nudity lesbianism, feminism etc but in east the word means independent, earning, job, not hiding from public, respected instead of cat called or perving eyes.
 
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