Sino-Pakistan Relations - Really Not Good as Shown

[twocents]

I am glad you were able to find a 2 year old article!!

It was a load of crap two years ago and it is still hogwash today. Sino-Pakistani friendship has stood the teast of time, much to the dismay of a numbers of nations out there. Chinese commentators and netizens have nothing but praise for the intimate relationship.

 

[Saleem]

moderators should delete this thread and ban the poster(s) for spreading indian propoganda...

 

[modern_newton]

I think India is the only country which has problems/conflicts with all surrounding neighbour countries including china, Pakistan, bangldesh, sri lanka etc. They need to correct themselves instead of looking at business of other nations

 

[SamranAli]

yet again another indian frustrated article, thread.

 

[Dark Warrior]

Pakistan has touted its alliance with “all-weather friend” Beijing in the wake of its recent falling out with Washington, a dispute that culminated in the suspension of military aid worth $800 million USD. However, Beijing does not appear interested in replacing the US as financier or guarantor of Pakistan’s security. In fact, the threat of Uighur terrorism has become a stumbling block in the partnership.

The bilateral relationship between Pakistan and the US, already tense for some time, reached a significant low point around the end of 2011. The raid on Osama bin Laden’s complex in Abbottabad, some 50km outside the capital, left Pakistan’s military establishment utterly humiliated. Relations suffered a further blow when a subsequent NATO airstrike killed 24 Pakistani soldiers, leading Islamabad to shut down NATO supply routes into Afghanistan for a period of 7 months.

Historically, Pakistan has propped up insurgent groups as a way to expand its regional influence, but this policy is becoming more untenable as time goes on. The Obama administration has become disillusioned with Islamabad’s failure to crack down on trans-border factions like the Haqqani network and other militant groups that are destabilizing Afghanistan. The Haqqani network is one of the leaders of the Afghan insurgency and has claimed several attacks on US troops, including an attack on the US Embassy in Kabul in 2011. Exasperated by Pakistan’s inaction, the US has increasingly relied on covert drone operations to target insurgents in remote areas of the country.

Although diplomatic relations between the US and Pakistan have always been rocky, Islamabad has remained one of the top five recipients of US economic and military assistance since 1948, with aid levels peaking at around $2.3 billion in 1962. The US has, nonetheless, suspended all assistance on two occasions - in the 1970s and the 1990s - due to Pakistan’s nuclear program. Yet Pakistan remained an important Cold War ally in the regional struggle against India and the Soviet Union, who had to fight an Afghan mujahedeen that had been trained by the CIA and its Pakistani counterpart, the Inter-Services Intelligence. After 9/11, Washington once again turned to Pakistan making it a prominent part of its campaign against Al-Qaeda in Afghanistan.

As the first Muslim nation to recognize the independence of the People’s Republic of China in 1950, Islamabad’s relations with Beijing are steeped in symbolic shows of support. The extent of economic cooperation between Pakistan and China is often exaggerated. Bilateral trade flows are worth a mere $9 billion annually, a figure that pales in comparison to the $74 billion of Sino-Indian trade recorded in 2011. Foreign direct investment (FDI) ventures have also been relatively flat. According to official Chinese sources, its FDI in Pakistan between 2005 and 2010 totaled $1.83 billion, the bulk of which went to telecommunication projects. This is an insignificant sum when compared to the $250 billion that Beijing has invested worldwide since 2005.

Compared to the mature, albeit flawed, defense cooperation with the United States, Sino-Pakistani military relations are still in the nascent stage. The first-ever China-Pakistan Defense talks were held in 2002 and the two countries held their first joint military exercise in November 2011. Beijing also reportedly sold 50 JF-17 fighter jets to Pakistan in May 2011.

This façade of solidarity and cooperation has shown its cracks before, most recently during celebrations over 60 years of Sino-Pakistani friendship. The story goes that Ahmad Shuja Pasha, the head of ISI, was on his way to Beijing when China first started broadcasting reports on the latest bout of unrest in Xinjiang. These reports claimed that recent attacks, including a truck high-jacking, police station raid, and a spate of knifings in Kashgar, were all the work of the East Turkmenistan Islamic Movement, and that the perpetrators had received training in Pakistan.

Beijing, apprehensive of the threat posed by Uighur separatists, has been increasingly associating instability in western China with Pakistan’s covert support for certain insurgent fractions. Little information is available about the number of Uighurs affiliated with Al Qaeda, but reports have confirmed their presence in various militant training camps in Pakistan. China’s decision to openly critique Pakistan marks a significant departure from its usual official discourse. It also implies that Beijing, like Washington, has grown weary of Pakistan’s chronic internal instability. For both China and the US, although to different extents, Pakistan is becoming a big liability. If Pakistan fails to bring a sense of order and control to its tribal areas, it risks losing both the aid and stewardship of the US and China as well.

Despite Pakistan’s optimism, China is not going to prop up the regime if doing so comes at the cost of its own domestic stability in Xinjiang and beyond.

Sino-Pakistani Relations: Not as Advertised - Geopolitical Monitor

Every body knows this except the Cyber Jihadis and CCP bots on this forum.

 

[ajtr]

cross-posting posts from other thread

After 10 years i ve still have doubts about those taped telephone conversation of Gen.Musharraf speakingto his commanders in pakistan..
1. was is chinese Intelligence which recorded it and passed onto indians(As per najam sethi in one of his kargil talk show program)
2.Was it Israeli mossad?(some sources points to israeli intelligence help here)
3.Was it RAW (as per indian sources).if it was RAW i must say they have pretty good sigint.
4.was it usa.(as per strobe talbott)

There are still doubts about the origination of those tapes actually who did it and why?

Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/strate...gil-but-could-get-worse-48.html#ixzz22B75Bwba

As far as I know, only the American NSA has the capability to do this.

American i can understand as at that time india-usa ties were getting better with jaswant singh and strobe-talbott were seriously ironing out indo-usa friendship dialogue for 1st time in since 1947.

From what I understand it was the Chinese who got them. They did not wish to embarrass Pakistan directly so they handed them to the Americans who in turn gave it to the Indians.

Thats the same theory najam sethi said on his talk show.but i'm still unable to presume why would china under deng will help india in 1999??If one goes by this theory then its the 2nd time chinese would have helped indians in war against pakistan.First was during 1971 when even after being pushed and encouraged by nixon administration and herny Kissinger chinese did not attack from north to reduce pressure on east pakistan.even chinese intervention from north gen.niazi was desperately waiting for.

Really its very difficult to understand chinese ...Why did they help india (their enemy) against their freiend pakistan in war.
Many a time even many commentators from pakistan have pointed this out.If one goes by the chinese theory then one is not far off from the mark in saying that...

china's help to pakistan against india is just empty sloganeering........................


In that case threads like this are not mere propaganda they do hold some water and shred of truth..

http://www.defence.pk/forums/strate...pakistan-relations-really-not-good-shown.html

 

[KRAIT]

I also watched that show.....Chinese did so to reduce any escalation to major confrontation (what I think), destabilizing the region, not good for China as it would have indirectly affected its growth.

Why would zChina fight Pakistan's war if they can train their personals, provide intelligence through spy satellites and arm them with better weapons tailor-made for Pakistan, like JF-17, J-10B etc. in collaboration or on their own.

 

[RazPaK]

cross-posting posts from other thread

After 10 years i ve still have doubts about those taped telephone conversation of Gen.Musharraf speakingto his commanders in pakistan..
1. was is chinese Intelligence which recorded it and passed onto indians(As per najam sethi in one of his kargil talk show program)
2.Was it Israeli mossad?(some sources points to israeli intelligence help here)
3.Was it RAW (as per indian sources).if it was RAW i must say they have pretty good sigint.
4.was it usa.(as per strobe talbott)

There are still doubts about the origination of those tapes actually who did it and why?

Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/strate...gil-but-could-get-worse-48.html#ixzz22B75Bwba



American i can understand as at that time india-usa ties were getting better with jaswant singh and strobe-talbott were seriously ironing out indo-usa friendship dialogue for 1st time in since 1947.

Thats the same theory najam sethi said on his talk show.but i'm still unable to presume why would china under deng will help india in 1999??If one goes by this theory then its the 2nd time chinese would have helped indians in war against pakistan.First was during 1971 when even after being pushed and encouraged by nixon administration and herny Kissinger chinese did not attack from north to reduce pressure on east pakistan.even chinese intervention from north gen.niazi was desperately waiting for.

Really its very difficult to understand chinese ...Why did they help india (their enemy) against their freiend pakistan in war.
Many a time even many commentators from pakistan have pointed this out.If one goes by the chinese theory then one is not far off from the mark in saying that...

china's help to pakistan against india is just empty sloganeering........................


In that case threads like this are not mere propaganda they do hold some water and shred of truth..

http://www.defence.pk/forums/strate...pakistan-relations-really-not-good-shown.html

Such foolish conspiracy theories not only make us laugh, but feel sorry for those that feel this level of insecurity.

 

[KRAIT]

Such foolish conspiracy theories not only make us laugh, but feel sorry for those that feel this level of insecurity.

Kindly provide your theory which is backed with facts and proofs. She is right, if they were their all weather friend, why did they not help Pakistan from breaking and why did they provide those tapes to US (if Najam Sethi is right), prove Sethi wrong if you have better reliable source.

Otherwise any sane person will ask this question, why didn't China help you when you needed them the most?

 

[ajtr]

Such foolish conspiracy theories not only make us laugh, but feel sorry for those that feel this level of insecurity.

But these CT's originates from pakistan only..see i clearly mentioned najam sethi as propagator of this theory in his Aapas ki baat program.

 

[RazPaK]

But these CT's originates from pakistan only..see i clearly mentioned najam sethi as propagator of this theory in his Aapas ki baat program.

Najam Sethi is not considered a journalist or even a credible source of information. He may have a few points, but almost no one in Pakistan takes the man seriously.

He is known to play the role of a liberal opportunist.

 

[REHAN NIAZI FALCON]

jealous indaians , filled with hate for PAKISTAN and CHINA , always busy in propaganda activity .... so pitiful they are ....

 

[Kyusuibu Honbu]

Here is some stuff from wikileaks , opinions of Shanghai academics.

Shanghai Academics On China-pakistan Relations

ccording to the scholars, however, China's desire to
improve political and economic ties with India, Pakistan's
rival, is complicating the Sino-Pakistan relationship (Ref A).
Zhang Jiegen, Professor at Fudan University, said Pakistani
scholars he met during his recent trip to Pakistan expressed
concerns about a burgeoning "friendship" between China and
India. His Pakistani interlocutors instead urged China to
"contain India" through closer partnership with Pakistan,
according to Zhang. Zhang Jiadong, Professor at Fudan
University, thinks China is in a dilemma: it wants to improve
relations with India while maintaining good relations with
Pakistan, but Pakistan has been "asking for more" (i.e., asking
China to choose sides). In describing China's "cultural
mindset," Zhang Jiadong explained that China does not want to
change its relations with any country too abruptly, so China
will continue to maintain good relations with Pakistan while
gradually developing stronger ties with India in a balanced
approach.

Despite talk of an "all weather partnership," the
scholars were quick to criticize Pakistan for what they perceive
as its over-reliance on China, particularly on the economic
front. Regarding Pakistan's current economic difficulties and
its request for foreign aid, Shao Yuqun, Professor at Shanghai
Institutes for International Studies (SIIS), said China in the
past would "blindly" give aid to its "friends," including
Pakistan, but now, aid must be considered on a "case by case
basis depending on the overall situation and the amount of aid."
She added that China's situation had changed recently with the
global economic downturn, and Beijing must now give greater
consideration to its domestic constituents.

 

[ajtr]

Kindly provide your theory which is backed with facts and proofs. She is right, if they were their all weather friend, why did they not help Pakistan from breaking and why did they provide those tapes to US (if Najam Sethi is right), prove Sethi wrong if you have better reliable source.

Otherwise any sane person will ask this question, why didn't China help you when you needed them the most?

May be he is right.Pakistanis consider najam sethi ,hamid mir et.al as left-liberal propagandist.I wonder if hamid mir is liberal as he famously propagate himself to be on every NDTV show.

Only thing i can say if hamid mir is liberal than i'm osama bin laden's black widow.

 

[Dark Warrior]

Here is some stuff from wikileaks , opinions of Shanghai academics.

Shanghai Academics On China-pakistan Relations

THis will break many hearts here