Since Earliest Historical Times Hinduism Was Never Popular in Pakistan

[bronxbull]

pagans trust in common sense and that alone,dont know about the rest.

abraham ke chindichor have no aukaat to talk about their pagan ancestors.

 

[Proudpakistaniguy]

pagans trust in common sense and that alone,dont know about the rest.

abraham ke chindichor have no aukaat to talk about their pagan ancestors.

Pagan is a very broad term and depends what your definition of paganism is. Hindu weird practices and beliefs would be last one to make some sense especially for those who don't live in India. Hinduism is not a universal religion and it will be alien for outsiders as they cannot relate to it. You guys are good entertainer for outsiders . Yea Its common sense to consider cow as mata and bull as pita and buffalo as grand mother lol and worshiping rats/snakes/plants, baby tossing etc.

Modern Hinduism is a joke as you can do anything you want and still claim to be Hindu. You can also be atheist and Hindu at the same times. Religion should be like Islam which dominated the world and different cultures in such short time span and spread in every corner of the world in Asia, Africa, Middle eat, Europe. I am sure it give you pain that people whose ancestors were non Muslims/pagans/idols worshiper /Buddhist/Zoroastrians etc show more loyalty towards Islam but that's how Islam dominate the lives of Muslims.

 

[Thirdfront]

1. LOL. Indra is not a demon in any culture. The Devas are. Their Gods, incidently, were Asuras(Ahura in Avestan)! Chief among them being AhuraMazda. This again points to the fact that ancient Iranians and Indo-Aryans shared a fraternal culture that eventually disagreed on the choice of whom to worship.

2. Countries like Crotia are called Mleca in their language (curious isn't it?) I have no idea what you are trying to say here. Plus, the Vedic culture does not describe any cities. Their lifestyle in the RigVeda is a rural one. They have left no clues about their knowledge of any IVC city or town. Horses, which are so important in Vedic culture, are totally absent in IVC. Hence, their cultures cannot be concluded to have influenced each other for lack of any evidence.

3. The simplest solution is that it doesn't take rocket science for any culture to come up with a symbol as simple as the Swastika. Again, if the Vedic culture borrowed this symbol from the IVC after they entered India, there is no way this symbol could have simultaneously been portrayed in other European and Eurasian cultures. Only the spread of Swastika to Eastern Asia can be reasonably pointed out to coincide with the spread of Buddhist missionaries.

4. You seem to think that Indian is synonymous with Hindu! The people of IVC were Indian no doubt, but there is no evidence whatsoever that they were Hindus. There is no evidence of a temple in any of the cities so far! Whatever their religion was, it's contribution to Hinduism has been next to nothing. Monotheism, polytheism and agnosticism are all very evident in the Vedas themselves. But you cannot be absolutely sure about the non-existence of God and then say you belong to a "faith". The Mimamsa schools have debated about the veracity of Vedas as truth, not about there being no God at all. 2 of the 4 primary Nastika sects that have survived to this day are both seen as separate religions(Dharmic origin nevertheless). Hence, they can be called indigenous religions, but not Sanatana Dharma itself.

1. You may want to check that again. Indra is indeed daemon in avestan (parsi) culture. But lack of other gods like Siva/Rudra suggest these were adopted by Vedic people after splitting from Iranian tribe. The only candidate is IVC (or Remnant of IVC)

2. Why are you going in circles again and again? My point is, there are many mentions of locations of India which shows Rigveda was atleast partly composed inside India. There are plenty of symbols/gods that are adopted from local cultures. The major local culture was IVC at that time.

3. Why are you rejecting the idea of reverse migration of Ideas? Which european culture have swastika as sacred symbol?

4. There is no evidence whatsoever that they were Hindus - Who is a hindu? Your earlier definition doesn't fit as it exclude many know hindu groups. Don't try to impose todays defnitions to historical times.

 

[farhan_9909]

Hinduism birth place is Pakistan and so does the Great Rig veda.

We Pakistanis invaded you in the past and made you hindus and later we opted for the true religion.

In short Pakistan has given religious level damage to India aswell

 

[KRAIT]

I thought during Maurayan Empire, it was Hinduism in that part of the region.

The Empire was founded in 322 BCE by Chandragupta Maurya, who had overthrown the Nanda Dynasty and began rapidly expanding his power westwards across central and western India taking opportunistic advantage of the disruptions of local powers in the wake of the withdrawal westward by Alexander the Great's Macedonian and Persian armies. By 316 BCE the empire had fully occupied Northwestern India, defeating and conquering the satraps left by Alexander.


At its greatest extent, the Empire stretched to the north along the natural boundaries of the Himalayas, and to the east stretching into what is now Assam. To the west, it reached beyond modern Pakistan and significant portions of what is now Afghanistan, including the modern Herat and Kandahar provinces.


I think Islam came way later. So, this means, the people living these regions where either Hindus or Buddhists ?

Maurya empire

 

[Indischer]

1. You may want to check that again. Indra is indeed daemon in avestan (parsi) culture. But lack of other gods like Siva/Rudra suggest these were adopted by Vedic people after splitting from Iranian tribe. The only candidate is IVC (or Remnant of IVC)

2. Why are you going in circles again and again? My point is, there are many mentions of locations of India which shows Rigveda was atleast partly composed inside India. There are plenty of symbols/gods that are adopted from local cultures. The major local culture was IVC at that time.

3. Why are you rejecting the idea of reverse migration of Ideas? Which european culture have swastika as sacred symbol?

4. There is no evidence whatsoever that they were Hindus - Who is a hindu? Your earlier definition doesn't fit as it exclude many know hindu groups. Don't try to impose todays defnitions to historical times.

1. I meant that not just Indra, but all Devas are seen as demons in the Avesta. Hope you also know that Indra also meant a honorific title. Indra's epithet, Verethragna, meanwhile is highly revered in the Avesta. I don't know how you come to the conclusion without even a shred of evidence that all other RigVedic Gods are borrowed from IVC. Can you produce at least one such evidence? (Your Pashupathi hypothesis has already been addressed). To me, the RigVedic tribes were perfectly capable of conjuring up all those Gods themselves. I will stick to this version unless there is some evidence that an IVC diety was merged into their pantheon of Gods. Lack of places of worship in IVC cities plus lack of any godly figurine that was repeatedly found in all cities are something you should ponder about.

2. Name one God which has been proven to have been adopted from local Indian cultures into the Vedas and I'm ready to accept your theory.

3. See for yourself on the internet regarding Swastika. It's found in all Eurasian and European cultures. Armenian, Greek, Roman, Celtic, Germanic, Slavic & Nordic petroglyphs, coins, marker-stones etc have had the swastika for nearly as long as we've had them here. Genetic studies indicate that since around 10000BC, the native Indians have not migrated outside, but tribes from Central Asia have migrated into India. So please explain how reverse-migration of the Swastika took place into Eurasia and Europe.

4. As I have said earlier-Hindu identity is built upon the veneration/exploration of Vedas and subsequent liturgical texts spawned thereafter. Please tell me how many sects fall outside this definition. I hope you don't again quote the Nastikas i.e Buddhism and Jainism!

 

[madmusti]

@Black Widow

Ahm So the Believers of Islam are Animals because they believe God but Hindus are normal in case of believing rats ?

 

[Nassr]

When I quoted earlier that Buddhists joined Mohammad Bin Qasim in defeating Dahir and the persecution of Buddhists by Brahmins, many Indian members objected stating that I was wrong. I may like to quote some examples of religious persecution and destruction of Buddhist sites etc to justify my earlier statement.

To lend legitimacy to their campaign against Buddhism, Brahminical texts included fierce strictures against Buddhists. Manu, in his Manusmriti, laid down that, ‘If a person touches a Buddhist […] he shall purify himself by having a bath.’ Aparaka ordained the same in his Smriti. Vradha Harit declared that entry into a Buddhist temple was a sin, which could only be expiated for by taking a ritual bath.

Chanakya, the author of Arthashastra, declared that, “When a person entertains in a dinner dedicated to gods and ancestors those who are Sakyas (Buddhists), Ajivikas, Shudras and exiled persons, a fine of one hundred panas shall be imposed on him.

The Brahannardiya Purana made it a principal sin for Brahmins to enter the house of a Buddhist even in times of great peril. The Vishnu Purana dubs the Buddha as Maha Moha or ‘the great seducer’. It further cautions against the ‘sin of conversing with Buddhists” and lays down that ‘those who merely talk to Buddhist ascetics shall be sent to hell.

Prakash, Buddh,in his book "Aspects of Indian History and Civilisation", Agra 1965, states that Nalanda Destroyed by Hindu Zealots. He adds that, even after the Islamic invasions of India, Brahmanist bigotry and hatred for Buddhists was not subdued. According to Sharmasvamin, a Tibetan pilgrim who visited Bihar three decades after the invasion of Bakhtiaruddin Khilji in the 12th century, the biggest library at Nalanda was destroyed by Hindu mendicants who took advantage of the chaos produced by the invasion. He says that "they (Hindus) performed a Yajna, a fire sacrifice, and threw living embers and ashes from the sacrifice into the Buddhist temples. This produced a great conflagration which consumed Ratnabodhi, the nine-storeyed library of the Nalanda University".

According to the historian S. R. Goyal (author of A History of Indian Buddhism), the decline of Buddhism in India is the result of the hostility of the Hindu priestly caste of Brahmins. The Hindu ruler Shashanka of Gauda [Gaura in Bengali] (590–626) destroyed the Buddhist images and Bodhi Tree, under which Siddhartha Gautama (Buddha) is said to have achieved enlightenment. Pusyamitra Sunga (185 BC to 151 BCE) was hostile to Buddhism. He burned Sutras, Buddhist shrines, and massacred monks in large numbers.

He forcibly removed the Buddha’s image from the Bodh Vihara near the tree and installed one of Shiva in its place. Finally, Shashanka is said to have slaughtered all the Buddhist monks in the area around Kushinagar. Another such Hindu king was, Mihirakula, who is said to have completely destroyed over 1500 Buddhist shrines. The Toramana is said to have destroyed the Ghositarama Buddhist monastery at Kausambi.

The extermination of Buddhism in India was hastened by the large-scale destruction and appropriation of Buddhist shrines by the Brahmins. The Mahabodhi Vihara at Bodh Gaya was forcibly converted into a Hindu temple, and the controversy lingers on till this day. The cremation stupa of the Buddha at Kushinagar was changed into a Hindu temple dedicated to the obscure deity with the name of Ramhar Bhavani. Adi Shankara is said to have established his Sringeri Mutth [also spelled as Math] on the site of a Buddhist monastery which he took over. Many Hindu shrines in Ayodhya are said to have once been Buddhist temples, as is the case with other famous Brahminical temples such as those at Sabarimala, Tirupati, Badrinath and Puri.

I thought during Maurayan Empire, it was Hinduism in that part of the region.

The Empire was founded in 322 BCE by Chandragupta Maurya, who had overthrown the Nanda Dynasty and began rapidly expanding his power westwards across central and western India taking opportunistic advantage of the disruptions of local powers in the wake of the withdrawal westward by Alexander the Great's Macedonian and Persian armies. By 316 BCE the empire had fully occupied Northwestern India, defeating and conquering the satraps left by Alexander.


At its greatest extent, the Empire stretched to the north along the natural boundaries of the Himalayas, and to the east stretching into what is now Assam. To the west, it reached beyond modern Pakistan and significant portions of what is now Afghanistan, including the modern Herat and Kandahar provinces.


I think Islam came way later. So, this means, the people living these regions where either Hindus or Buddhists ?

Maurya empire

Majority were monotheists and later Buddhists. This does not mean that there were no Hindus or remnants of the Vedic culture who also populated the areas of Pakistan during the early historic periods.

 

[KRAIT]

@Nassr So you are saying that Vedic culture (composed as Hinduism, which is often called way of life rather than religion) ----> Hinduism(a religion for your sake)/Buddhism----> Islam is the religion timeline of the land which is now called Pakistan ?

And Hindu zealots destroyed Nalanda...WTF.

Height of Conspiracy theories. You base your proof on one book, also written by a Hindu.

 

[Nassr]

OK, so 15% to 3% doesn't constitute ethnic cleansing? Bosnia had lesser ethnic cleansing that this. You think all those people left voluntarily?

That is the issue with people like you. You are so used to bigotry all around you, you don't even notice it.

This shows that you have a very basic problem.

A problem of lack of basic comprehension skill. Coming from a major identity crisis.

A compulsive need to justify your existence, to justify the two nation theory beyond just Islam because you know how meaningless and useless the whole thing is.

That is an improvement.

And there is a long way to go.

A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step.

One day I am sure people will reject the desert bedou ideology that doesn't belong in civilized lands. However tentative the beginning may seem.

So despite the fact that we may be on opposing sides in this argument, I encourage people like you who question the wrong premise even though they can't quite figure out the correct answers right now.

You are comparing the UN compiled data with a piece of information without any reference. If you want to understand what Ethnic Cleansing was, please visit the Muslim majority areas of Indian Punjab like Gurdaspur and compare the Muslim data. Also go to Jammu region and read about actual Ethnic cleansing of over 500,000 Muslims out of which 200,000 men, women and children were murdered in cold blood by the forces of Kashmir, Alwar, Kapurthala etc. look at your own muck filled backyard before you start accusing others. And it has not been happening since around 47, your history is filled with perpetration of such atrocities. The Brahmin persecution of Buddhists and Buddhism is a clear example since the earlier times. Such instances puts the whole world to shame. And then you guys feel proud of Mahabharata, which according to the calculations of your own scholars resulted in killings of over a billion people.

No you are not just bigots, you are Maha-bigots because not only that you distort reality, you project your supra-religiosity by pronouncing almost a whole nation as untouchables and deny the minorities to even proclaim their religiosity. Every now and then you mete out community punishment on the minorities for a crime of a few – 3000 Sikhs killed in Delhi alone after Indira’s murder – 2000 Muslims killed in the aftermath of Godhara train disaster, old Mosques are destroyed because some believed that a God was born there, Christians are burnt alive and murdered because they are propagating their religion – and this is just the tip of the iceberg.

Step out of your bigoted, supremacist and racist mindset for a moment and look at the historical realities as they existed instead of resorting to presumption and assumption based intolerant, blinkered and prejudiced outpourings.

 

[KRAIT]

@Vinod2070 Remember a poster named Ticker. He used to talk like this.

Someone issuffering from identity crisis. And here you are making his life even more worse.

 

[Nassr]

@Nassr So you are saying that Vedic culture (composed as Hinduism, which is often called way of life rather than religion) ----> Hinduism(a religion for your sake)/Buddhism----> Islam is the religion timeline of the land which is now called Pakistan ?

And Hindu zealots destroyed Nalanda...WTF.

Height of Conspiracy theories. You base your proof on one book, also written by a Hindu.

This was quoted from a book written by Prakash, Buddh, titled, "Aspects of Indian History and Civilisation" and printed in Agra, India in 1995. Please go fight with him, why are you getting angry with me. Or is it that when facts are presented in black and white which you people do not like, the response invariably is in expletives and identical denials.

@Vinod2070 Remember a poster named Ticker. He used to talk like this.

Someone issuffering from identity crisis. And here you are making his life even more worse.

????????????????

 

[KRAIT]

This was quoted from a book written by Prakash, Buddh, titled, "Aspects of Indian History and Civilisation" and printed in Agra, India in 1995. Please go fight with him, why are you getting angry with me. Or is it that when facts are presented in black and white which you people do not like, the response invariably is in expletives and identical denials.
????????????????

Why would I fight with anyone when I am sure of my identity. I don't believe in just one author trying to sell his book by making weird statements. I won't ignore accounts by various revered travelers and historical evidence which were scientifically proven too.
I am not angry at you, just amused. Keep on going. All the best.

 

[ranjeet]

Why would I fight with anyone when I am sure of my identity. I don't believe in just one author trying to sell his book by making weird statements. I won't ignore accounts by various revered travelers and historical evidence which were scientifically proven too.I am not angry at you, just amused. Keep on going. All the best.

Oh come on now ... I am sure somewhere some Indian IPS or IAS must have written a book about debunking our perceived identity, how ignorant of you and especially me !!!

 

[Nassr]

Why would I fight with anyone when I am sure of my identity. I don't believe in just one author trying to sell his book by making weird statements. I won't ignore accounts by various revered travelers and historical evidence which were scientifically proven too.
I am not angry at you, just amused. Keep on going. All the best.

You are entitled to your views. I however do not know of the historical evidence which was scientifically proven too, to agree with your own conspiracy theories.