Since Earliest Historical Times Hinduism Was Never Popular in Pakistan

[shuntmaster]

Does Pakistan's 'Earliest Historical times' start on 14-08-1947?

 

[Nassr]

Does Pakistan's 'Earliest Historical times' start on 14-08-1947?

Nope. Over 9000 years ago. Republic of India's earliest historical times however do start from 15-08-1947.

 

[shuntmaster]

Nope. Over 9000 years ago. Republic of India's earliest historical times however do start from 15-08-1947.

Wrong sir.. India became a republic on 26-01-1950. However, the word India/Bharat/Hindustan has been around since pre-historical times. The word Pakistan was invented in 1930's.

 

[Thirdfront]

Out of a total of around 1800 seals that have been discovered from the IVC sites, only about three seals are linked by Indian Hindus to Hinduism, the so-called Pashupati look alike seal , the so-called Mother Goddess look alike seal and the Swastika seal.

Contrarily, there is overwhelming evidence that proves the fact that IVC was not Vedic by any stretch of imagination. Yet the insistence to the contrary is very surprising indeed.

Vedas were compiled at around 1600 BCE. How can earlier people be Vedic? Time travelers? You forgot to add Om seal in that list and unfortunately for you, those are the only ones that are kind of understood. Without deciphering them completely, your insistence that they were not connected to vedic people is telling.

Nope. Over 9000 years ago. Republic of India's earliest historical times however do start from 15-08-1947.

link for the above BS please...

 

[Nassr]

Wrong sir.. India became a republic on 26-01-1950. However, the word India/Bharat/Hindustan has been around since pre-historical times. The word Pakistan was invented in 1930's.

Pre-history is the span of time before recorded history or the invention of writing systems. The term "prehistory" can also refer to the vast span of time since the beginning of the Universe, but more often it refers to the period since life appeared on Earth, or even more specifically to the time since human-like beings appeared.

Therefore, to be more precise, Indians are more like human like beings as they have existed since pre-history.

Arrey bhai, aisi sweeping statements to na diya karo.

Vedas were compiled at around 1600 BCE. How can earlier people be Vedic? Time travelers? You forgot to add Om seal in that list and unfortunately for you, those are the only ones that are kind of understood. Without deciphering them completely, your insistence that they were not connected to vedic people is telling.


link for the above BS please...

OM is a Sanskrit word and is seen to be written as such. The people of IVC did not speak or write Sanskrit. One does not even need to wear spectacles to see the IVC writing which is written right to left and Sanskrit written from left to right to find the answer. How could that IVC seal have OM written on it in Sanskrit. At times your interpretations are funny indeed.

Mehrgarh is a 9000 year old city located between Quetta and Sibi in Balochistan.

 

[shuntmaster]

Pre-history is the span of time before recorded history or the invention of writing systems. The term "prehistory" can also refer to the vast span of time since the beginning of the Universe, but more often it refers to the period since life appeared on Earth, or even more specifically to the time since human-like beings appeared.

Therefore, to be more precise, Indians are more like human like beings as they have existed since pre-history.

Arrey bhai, aisi sweeping statements to na diya karo.

Prehistory (meaning "before history", or "before knowledge acquired by investigation", from the Latin word for "before," præ, and historia) is the span of time before recorded history or the invention of writing systems. Prehistory can refer to the period of human existence before the availability of those written records with which recorded history begins. More broadly, it refers to all the time preceding human existence and the invention of writing.
In reference to the Indian Sub-continent, pre-history would mean time period preceding Alexanders invasion, because there are no surviving written historical records relating to this region prior to this. even though the people inhabiting this region were known to have highly evolved language and writing skill, since centuries prior to Alexander, as evidenced by the writing of Vedas and Upanishads, those people never bothered to record the history of the place. What we are sure is that this region was called 'India' even before Alexander went out to conquer the world. What we don't know when exactly the words like India, Hindustan, Bharat were first used, but is definitely originated in deep antiquity.



India is a country in South Asia whose name comes from the Indus River. The name `Bharata’ is used as a designation for the country in their constitution referencing the ancient mythological emperor, Bharata, whose story is told, in part, in the Indian epic Mahabharata. According to the writings known as the Puranas (religious/historical texts written down in the 5th century CE) Bharata conquered the whole sub-continent of India and ruled the land in peace and harmony. The land was, therefore, known as Bharatavarsha (`the sub-continent of Bharata’). Homonid activity in the Indian sub-continent stretches back over 250,000 years and it is, therefore, one of the oldest inhabited regions on the planet.

Archaeological excavations have discovered artifacts used by early humans, including stone tools, which suggest an extremely early date for human habitation and technology in the area. While the civilizations ofMesopotamia and Egypt have long been recognized for their celebrated contributions to civilization, India has often been overlooked, especially in the West, though her history and culture is just as rich.

The areas of present-day India, Pakistan, and Nepal have provided archaeologists and scholars with the richest sites of the most ancient pedigree. The species Homo heidelbergensis (a proto human who was an ancestor of modern Homo sapiens) inhabited the sub-continent of India centuries before humans migrated into the region known as Europe. Evidence of the existence of Homo heidelbergensis was first discovered in Germany in 1907 and, since, further discoveries have established fairly clear migration patterns of this species out of Africa. Recognition of the antiquity of their presence in India has been largely due to the fairly late archaeological interest in the area as, unlike work in Mesopotamia and Egypt, Western excavations in India did not begin in earnest until the 1920’s CE. Though the ancient city of Harappa was known to exist as early as 1842 CE, its archaeological significance was ignored and the later excavations corresponded to an interest in locating the probable sites referred to in the great Indian epics Mahabharata and Ramayana (both of the 5th or 4th centuries BCE) while ignoring the possibility of a much more ancient past for the region. The village of Balathal (near Udaipur in Rajasthan), to cite only one example, illustrates the antiquity of India’s history as it dates to 4000 BCE. Balathal was not discovered until 1962 CE and excavations were not begun there until the 1990’s CE.

Archaeological excavations in the past fifty years have dramatically changed the understanding of India’s past and, by extension, world history. A 4000 year-old skeleton discovered at Balathal in 2009 CE provides the oldest evidence of leprosy in India. Prior to this find, leprosy was considered a much younger disease thought to have been carried from Africa to India at some point and then from India to Europe by the army of Alexander the Great following his death in 323 BCE. It is now understood that significant human activity was underway in India by the Holocene Period (10,000 years ago) and that many historical assumptions based upon earlier work in Egypt and Mesopotamia, need to be reviewed and revised. The beginnings of the Vedic tradition in India, still practiced today, can now be dated, at least in part, to the indigenous people of ancient sites such as Balathal rather than, as often claimed, wholly to the Aryan invasion of c. 1500 BCE.

The Indus Valley Civilization dates to 5000 BCE and grew steadily throughout the lower Ganetic Valley region southwards and northwards to Malwa. The cities of this period were larger than contemporary settlements in other countries, were situated according to cardinal points, and were built of mud bricks, often kiln-fired. Houses were constructed with a large courtyard opening from the front door, a kitchen/work room for the preparation of food, and smaller bedrooms. Family activities seem to have centred on the front of the house, particularly the courtyard and, in this, are similar to what has been inferred from sites in Rome, Egypt, Greece, and Mesopotamia.

The most famous sites of this period are the great cities of Mohenjo-Daro and Harappa both located in present-day Pakistan (Mohenjo-Daro in the Sindh province and Harappa in Punjab) which was part of India until the 1947 CE partition of the country which created the separate nation. Harappa has given its name to the Harappan Civilization (another name for the Indus Valley Civilization) which is usually divided into Early, Middle, and Mature periods corresponding roughly to 5000-4000 BCE (Early), 4000-2900 BCE (Middle), and 2900-1900 BCE (Mature). Harappa dates from the Middle period (c. 3000 BCE) while Mohenjo-Daro was built in the Mature period (c. 2600 BCE). Harappa was largely destroyed in the 19th century when British workers carried away much of the city for use as ballast in constructing the railroad and many buildings had already been dismantled by citizens of the local village of Harappa (which gives the site its name) for use in their own projects. It is therefore now difficult to determine the historical significance of Harappa save that it is clear it was once a significant Bronze Age community with a population of as many as 30,000 people. Mohenjo-Daro, on the other hand, is much better preserved as it lay mostly buried until 1922 CE. The name `Mohenjo-Daro’ means `mound of the dead’ in Sindhi. The original name of the city is unknown although various possibilities have been suggested by finds in the region, among them, the Dravidian name `Kukkutarma’, the city of the cock, a possible allusion to the site as a center of ritual cock-fighting or, perhaps, as a breeding centre for cocks.

Mohenjo-Daro was an elaborately constructed city with streets laid out evenly at right angles and a sophisticated drainage system. The Great Bath, a central structure at the site, was heated and seems to have been a focal point for the community. The citizens were skilled in the use of metals such as copper, bronze, lead and tin (as evidenced by art works such as the bronze statue of the Dancing Girl and by individual seals) and cultivated barley, wheat, peas, sesame, and cotton. Trade was an important source of commerce and it is thought that ancient Mesopotamian texts which mention Magan and Meluhha refer to India generally or, perhaps, Mohenjo-Daro specifically. Artifacts from the Indus Valley region have been found at sites in Mesopotamia though their precise point of origin in India is not always clear.

The people of the Harappan Civilization worshipped many gods and engaged in ritual worship. Statues of various deities (such as, Indra, the god of storm and war) have been found at many sites and, chief among them, terracotta pieces depicting the Shakti (the Mother Goddess) suggesting a popular, common worship of the feminine principle. In about 1500 BCE it is thought another race, known as the Aryans, migrated into India through the Khyber Pass and assimilated into the existing culture, perhaps bringing their gods with them. While it is widely accepted that the Aryans brought the horse to India, there is some debate as to whether they introduced new deities to the region or simply influenced the existing belief structure. The Aryans are thought to have been pantheists (nature worshippers) with a special devotion to the sun and it seems uncertain they would have had anthropomorphic gods.

At about this same time (c. 1700-1500 BCE) the Harappan culture began to decline. Scholars cite climate change as one possible reason. The Indus River is thought to have begun flooding the region more regularly (as evidenced by approximately 30 feet or 9 metres of silt at Mohenjo-Daro) and the great cities were abandoned. Other scholars cite the Aryan migration as more of an invasion of the land which brought about a vast displacement of the populace. Among the most mysterious aspects of Mohenjo-Daro is the vitrification of parts of the site as though it had been exposed to intense heat which melted the brick and stone. This same phenomenon has been observed at sites such as Traprain Law in Scotland and attributed to the results ofwarfare. Speculation regarding the destruction of the city by some kind of ancient atomic blast (possibly the work of aliens from other planets) is not generally regarded as credible.

The Aryan influence gave rise to what is known as the Vedic Period in India (c. 1700- 150 BCE) characterized by a pastoral lifestyle and adherence to the religious texts known as The Vedas. Society became divided into four classes (the Varnas) popularly known as `the caste system’ which were comprised of the Brahmana at the top (priests and scholars), the Kshatriya next (the warriors), the Vaishya (farmers and merchants), and theShudra (labourers). The lowest caste was the Dalits, the untouchables, who handled meat and waste, though there is some debate over whether this class existed in antiquity. At first, it seems this caste system was merely a reflection of one’s occupation but, in time, it became more rigidly interpreted to be determined by one’s birth and one was not allowed to change castes nor to marry into a caste other than one’s own. This understanding was a reflection of the belief in an eternal order to human life dictated by a supreme deity.

While the religious beliefs which characterized the Vedic Period are considered much older, it was during this time that they became systematized as the religion of Sanatan Dharma (which means `Eternal Order’) known today as Hinduism (this name deriving from the Indus (or Sindus) River where worshippers were known to gather, hence, `Sindus’, and then `Hindus’). The underlying tenet of Sanatan Dharma is that there is an order and a purpose to the universe and human life and, by accepting this order and living in accordance with it, one will experience life as it is meant to be properly lived. While Sanatan Dharma is considered by many a polytheistic religion consisting of many gods, it is actually monotheistic in that it holds there is one god, Brahma (the Self), who, because of his greatness, cannot be fully apprehended save through the many aspects which are revealed as the different gods of the Hindu pantheon. It is Brahma who decrees the eternal order and maintains the universe through it. This belief in an order to the universe reflects the stability of the society in which it grew and flourished as, during the Vedic Period, governments became centralized and social customs integrated fully into daily life across the region. Besides The Vedas, the great religious and literary works of TheUpanishads, The Puranas, The Mahabharata, and The Ramayana all come from this period.

In the 6th century BCE, the religious reformers Vardhaman Mahavira (549-477 BCE) and Siddhartha Gautama(563-483 BCE) broke away from mainstream Sanatan Dharma to eventually create their own religions of Jainismand Buddhism. These changes in religion were a part of a wider pattern of social and cultural upheaval which resulted in the formation of city states and the rise of powerful kingdoms (such as the Kingdom of Magadha under the ruler Bimbisara). Increased urbanization and wealth attracted the attention of Cyrus, ruler of the Persian Empire, who invaded India in 530 BCE and initiated a campaign of conquest in the region. Ten years later, under the reign of his son, Darius I, northern India was firmly under Persian control (the regions corresponding to Afghanistan and Pakistan today) and the inhabitants of that area subject to Persian laws and customs. One consequence of this, possibly, was an assimilation of Persian and Indian religious beliefs which some scholars point to as an explanation for further religious and cultural reforms.

Persia held dominance in northern India until the conquest of Alexander the Great in 327 BCE. One year later, Alexander had defeated the Achaemenid Empire and firmly conquered the Indian subcontinent. Again, foreign influences were brought to bear on the region giving rise to the Greco-Buddhist culture which impacted all areas of culture in northern India from art to religion to dress. Statues and reliefs from this period depict Buddha, and other figures, as distinctly Hellenic in dress and pose (known as the Gandhara School of Art). Following Alexander’s departure from India, the Maurya Empire (322-185 BCE) rose under the reign of ChandraguptaMaurya (322-298) until, by the end of the third century BCE, it ruled over almost all of northern India.

Chandragupta’s son, Bindusara reigned between 298-272 BCE and extended the empire throughout the whole of India. His son was Ashoka the Great (lived 304-232, reigned 269-232 BCE) under whose rule the empire flourished at its height. Eight years into his reign, Ashoka conquered the eastern city-state of Kalinga which resulted in a death toll numbering over 100,000. Shocked at the destruction and death, Ashoka embraced the teachings of the Buddha and embarked on a systematic programme advocating Buddhist thought and principles. He established many monasteries and gave lavishly to Buddhist communities. His ardent support of Buddhist values eventually caused a strain on the government both financially and politically as even his grandson, Sampadi, heir to the throne, opposed his policies. By the end of Ashoka’s reign the government treasury was severely depleted through his regular religious donations and, after his death, the empire declined rapidly.

The country splintered into many small kingdoms and empires (such as the Kushan Empire) in what has come to be called the Middle Period. This era saw the increase of trade with Rome (which had begun c. 130 BCE) following Augustus Caesar’s conquest of Egypt in 30 BCE (Egypt had been India’s most constant partner in trade in the past). This was a time of individual and cultural development in the various kingdoms which finally flourished in what is considered the Golden Age of India under the reign of the Gupta Empire (320-550 CE).

The Gupta Empire is thought to have been founded by one Sri Gupta (`Sri’ means `Lord’) who probably ruled between 240-280 CE. As Sri Gupta is thought to have been of the Vaishya (merchant) class, his rise to power in defiance of the caste system is unprecedented. He laid the foundation for the government which would so stabilize India that virtually every aspect of culture reached its height under the reign of the Guptas.Philosophy, literature, science, mathematics, architecture, astronomy, technology, art, engineering, religion, and astronomy, among other fields, all flourished during this period, resulting in some of the greatest of human achievements. The Puranas of Vyasa were compiled during this period and the famous caves of Ajanta and Ellora, with their elaborate carvings and vaulted rooms, were also begun. Kalidasa the poet and playwright wrote his masterpiece Shakuntala and the Kamasutra was also written, or compiled from earlier works, by Vatsyayana. Varahamihira explored astronomy at the same time as Aryabhatta, the mathematician, made his own discoveries in the field and also recognized the importance of the concept of zero, which he is credited with inventing. As the founder of the Gupta Empire defied orthodox Hindu thought, it is not surprising that the Gupta rulers advocated and propagated Buddhism as the national belief and this is the reason for the plentitude of Buddhist works of art, as opposed to Hindu, at sites such as Ajanta and Ellora.

The empire declined slowly under a succession of weak rulers until it collapsed around 550 CE. The Gupta Empire was then replaced by the rule of Harshavardhan (590-647) who ruled the region for 42 years. A literary man of considerable accomplishments (he authored three plays in addition to other works) Harshavardhan was a patron of the arts and a devout Buddhist who forbade the killing of animals in his kingdom but recognized the necessity to sometimes kill humans in battle. He was a highly skilled military tactician who was only defeated in the field once in his life. Under his reign, the north of India flourished but his kingdom collapsed following his death. The invasion of the Huns had been repeatedly repelled by the Guptas and then by Harshavardhan but, with the fall of his kingdom, India fell into chaos and fragmented into small kingdoms lacking the unity necessary to fight off invading forces.

In 712 CE the Muslim general Muhammed bin Quasim conquered northern India, establishing himself in the region of modern-day Pakistan. The Muslim invasion saw an end to the indigenous empires of India and, from then on, independent city states or communities under the control of a city would be the standard model of government. The Islamic Sultanates rose in the region of modern-day Pakistan and spread north-west. The disparate world views of the religions which now contested each other for acceptance in the region and the diversity of languages spoken, made the unity and cultural advances, such as were seen in the time of the Guptas, difficult to reproduce. Consequently, the region was easily conquered by the Islamic Mughal Empire. India would then remain subject to various foreign influences and powers (among them the Portuguese, the French, and the British) until finally winning its independence in 1947 CE.

Timeline

• c. prehistoric
  Human habitation of India.
• 5500 BCE
  Cotton cultivation begins in India.
• c. 5000 BCE
  Evidence of religious practices in the Indus Valley.
• c. 5000 BCE - c. 1500 BCE
  The Indus Valley (or Harappan) Civilization.
• c. 4000 BCE
  Indian village of Balathal inhabited.
• c. 4000 BCE
  Farming settlements are established in theIndus Valley.
• c. 3000 BCE
  First signs of urbanization in the Indus Valley.
• c. 3000 BCE - c. 2600 BCE
  The rise of the great Indian cities of Mohenjo Daro and Harappa.
• c. 2600 BCE
  Dozens of towns and cities are established in the Indus Valley.
• 2000 BCE
  Pepper is widely used in Indian cooking.
• c. 1700 BCE - c. 1500 BCE
  Decline of the Harappan Culture in India.
• c. 1700 BCE - 1100 BCE
  The Rig Veda written, mentioning the god Rudra (Shiva) for the first time.
• c. 1700 BCE - 150 BCE
  The Vedic Period in India.
• 1500 BCE
  The Indus Valley is invaded by Aryans - nomadic northerners from central Asia.
• c. 1000 BCE
  The Aryans expand into the Ganges valley inIndia.
• c. 700 BCE
  Indian scholars codify and reinterpret Aryanbeliefs to create the Upanishads texts forming the basis of Hinduism.
• c. 700 BCE
  India is divided into 16 Aryan states or kingdoms.
• c. 600 BCE
  Charaka and Sushruta found two schools of Ayurveda.
• 599 BCE - 527 BCE
  Life of Indian philosopher Vardhamana, founder of Jainism.
• 530 BCE
  Persia conquers the Indus Valley.
• c. 500 BCE
  The kingdom of Magadha, ruled by Bimbisara, is the most powerful state in India.
• c. 490 BCE - 410 BCE
  The life of Siddhartha Gautama or theBuddha, founder of Buddhism. The traditional date for his birth is 563 BCE, although contemporary scholarly consensus places his birth c. 490 BCE.
• 340 BCE - 298 BCE
  Life of Indian Emperor Chandragupta, first ruler of the Mauryan Empire.
• 327 BCE - 325 BCE
  Alexander's campaign in northern India.
• 322 BCE - 298 BCE
  Reign of Chandragupta, first ruler of the Mauryan Empire.
• 320 BCE
  Chandragupta Maurya seizes the throne of Magadhan and expands the kingdom over northern and central India.
• 305 BCE
  Emperor Changragupta signs a treaty with Seleucus, establishing borders and giving the Punjab to Changragupta in return for 500 warelephants.
• 298 BCE
  Indian ruler Chandragupta Maurya dies.
• 298 BCE
  Chandragupta voluntarily abdicates the throne in favour of his son Bindusara. Jain sources say that Chandragupta turned into an ascetic and follower of Jainism, migrated south and starved himself to death.
• 298 BCE - 272 BCE
  Chandragupta's son, Bindusara, rules and expands the Maurya Empire.
• c. 268 BCE
  Ashoka becomes emperor of the Maurya dynasty in India.
• c. 260 BCE
  Indian ruler Ashoka conquers the kingdom of Kalinga.
• 232 BCE
  Indian ruler Ashoka dies and the Maurya empiredeclines.
• c. 200 BCE
  Beginning of the Greco-Bactrian conquests inIndia.
• 186 BCE
  Demetrios wins a decisive battle in Gandhara, beginning the Yona (or Greek era) in India.
• c. 165 BCE
  The Greco-Bactrian king Eucratides invadesIndia.
• 160 BCE - 135 BCE
  Indo-Greek King Menander rules the Punjab.
• c. 130 BCE
  Eucratids flee from Bactria to India. Rivalry between Eucratids and Euthydemids takes place in the Indo-Greek kingdoms.
• 30 BCE
  Pepper is directly imported by Roman ships fromIndia and its price decreases.
• c. 1 CE
  First non-stop voyages from Egypt to India.
• c. 1 CE - c. 100 CE
  The Mahayana movement begins in India with its belief in bodhisattva - saintly souls who helped the living.
• c. 100 CE
  The large series of Mahayana Buddhist texts named in Sanskrit Prajnaparamita “Perfection of wisdom” begins to be written in Southern India.
• 320 CE
  Gupta I founds the Gupta dynasty which would rule India for 600 years.
• 380 CE - 415 CE
  Reign of Chandra Gupta II in India.
• 450 CE
  India is invaded by the White Huns across theHindu Kush.
• c. 500 CE - c. 600 CE
  In India the Tantric expands the number of deities to include helpful demons, contactable through ritual.
• c. 550 CE
  The end of the reign of Visnugupta Chandraditya, last of the Gupta rulers in India.
• 712 CE
  Muslim general Muhammed bin Quasim conquersnorthern India.

 

[Thirdfront]

Pre-history is the span of time before recorded history or the invention of writing systems. The term "prehistory" can also refer to the vast span of time since the beginning of the Universe, but more often it refers to the period since life appeared on Earth, or even more specifically to the time since human-like beings appeared.

Therefore, to be more precise, Indians are more like human like beings as they have existed since pre-history.

Arrey bhai, aisi sweeping statements to na diya karo.



OM is a Sanskrit word and is seen to be written as such. The people of IVC did not speak or write Sanskrit. One does not even need to wear spectacles to see the IVC writing which is written right to left and Sanskrit written from left to right to find the answer. How could that IVC seal have OM written on it in Sanskrit. At times your interpretations are funny indeed.

Mehrgarh is a 9000 year old city located between Quetta and Sibi in Balochistan.

Is there any rule that Sanskrit can't borrow letters from others?? For your kind information, languages are not written, scripts are. So, if some one writes Sanskrit in persian, sanskrit will also be written from right to left. Om is a symbol, single letter, like swastika.
Mehrgarh may be in present day pakistan, but it wasn't in pakistan 5000 years ago (there was no pakistan back then, remember?). What I am asking is earliest mention of the term "Pakistan". History of pakistan starts from that time...

 

[Ajatashatru]

Your figures are incorrect. I had posted the United Nations' figures of pre-1947 Hindu and Sikh Population in Pakistan, W. Punjab: 9% Hindu, 11% Sikh; Sindh: 10% Hindu, 5% Sikh; NWFP: 2.5% Hindu, 2.5% Sikh; Baluchistan: 3% Hindu. Over 50% of them left for India when the partition took place.

I quoted the figures from an Islamic site but you do agree that there were much more Hindus in Pak than Buddhists.

There is limited Buddhist population in the whole of India because the Brahmins systematically eliminated Buddhism and Buddhists from India and this is a historical fact no matter how much you Indians try to hide it. The places where Buddhists survive in India were probably out of reach of those Brahmins who eliminated them from India through the process of persecution and elimination. And also the Buddhists survived in places outside India where the Brahmin Hindu could not harm them. And now after persecution and elimination of Buddhists from India, you have the temerity of identifying them through constitutional edicts and supreme Court judgments as part of Hinduism and a sub-sect of Hinduism. Shameless people.

There have been very few conflicts b/w Hindus and Buddhists in India. The reason Hinduism saw a revival and Buddhism a decline was because of movements like Bhakti movement which espoused the worship of a personal deity and devotional hymns which greatly appealed to the masses.

In fact the final blow to Buddhism came from the destruction of Buddhists sites like Nalanda by Muslims. Evidence in literature suggests that in 1193, the Nalanda University was sacked by Bakhtiyar Khilji, a Turk. The Persian historian Minhaj-i-Siraj, in his chronicle the Tabaqat-I-Nasiri, reported that thousands of monks were burned alive and thousands beheaded as Khilji tried his best to uproot Buddhism. The burning of the library continued for several months and "smoke from the burning manuscripts hung for days like a dark pall over the low hills."

The reason why many people claim Buddhism to be a part of Hinduism is because Buddha is considered an incarnation of Lord Vishnu by Hindus. There is no malicious intent to subdue Buddhism. Hindus honor Buddha by calling him an angel sent by God.

many of these neutral sources have already started calling the IVC as Pakistani civilization. As the world comes to know about the reality, you will see only Indians identifying themselves with things which do not belong to them.

Such neutral sources exist only in your imagination as there is no Pakistani civilization. Some experts categorize Pak as part of Indian civilization while some consider it as part of an "Indo-Islamic civilization." If you have a neutral history source saying IVC is part of "Pak civilization" post it.

copying aspects from the earlier times does not mean that they also used those same things which you do now. Like the 7000 year old swastika which was found in Belgium where they would certainly not have followed Hinduism by any stretch of imagination.

No I didn't say Vedic Hinduism existed before Vedas, I said it is based on older beliefs.

 

[Black Widow]

I don't care what rat/snake/cow/ idol worshiper think about my beautiful religion Islam. I am fully convinced that Islam is divine religion and all Abraham Religions and Prophets brought same message of Islam from same God which got corrupted over time. The difference is those prophets were appointed for particular nations/tribes but our prophet was appointed for all mankind. You can worship *** to thank it as well because you will not be able to poo without it . I don't care lol Hinduism is a copy paste from Buddhism, pagans and others practices of polytheist cultures

This is what you are programmed to.. It is called brainwashing..

Human was Animal, he started questioning, he became human, Religion asked him not to ask question,, he becomes animal agian..

Nope. Over 9000 years ago. Republic of India's earliest historical times however do start from 15-08-1947.

There is no evidence that Allah exist: You guys believe it.
There is clear evidence that a country with Name India Exists: No Pakistani believes it..

 

[Indischer]

1. Again, if Rigveda was composed outside India, Rudra/Shiva should have been in other religion.. they are not

2. Soma doesn't grow in India? may be not in current India, but in pak afghan border land, even today they drink soma...

3. It may not be exclusive, but what hinduism uses today is carryover from IVC than any other society.

4. Denouncing is not new in hinduism. Shaivites denounce vaishnavas and so on. Does it mean that they are not Hindus? That is why I asked specific question, where it is written that nastikas are non-hindus. It is your statement that they are not as I am not aware of single such statement from ancient times.

1. Ridiculous statement. So which other religion has Marut, Brihaspati, Savitr, Surya, Aditi, Pushan, Rbhus,Yama etc?? (All RigVedic Gods)

2. Afghanistan is in Central Asia. So, the RigVeda does indicate the geography of the tribe through such markers. There are other such clues too.

3. Again. How did you arrive at this conclusion without any evidence? It's also equally plausible that IVC borrowed the symbol from Central Asian tribes!

4. Dude, you crossed over from debate on history to theology. Hence the suggestion that you consult an expert on religion or a Jain/Buddhist monk and ask yourselves. It's not me classifying these as separate religions in their own right.

 

[Indischer]

hinduism as it exists in india doesnt show up in archeological sites found in Pakistan , hinduism in india has dieties and figures like monkey , elephant , woman with many hands etc , such like figures have not been found in archelogical sites in Pakistan

how hindus counter this is that anything rod shaped object found anythwere at an archelogical site they say this is shiva and hence lay hinduism claim over it.

Any credible links to back your claims or will you continue to shoot blanks from your backside?

 

[bronxbull]

i find it funny that lot of muslims who abhor idolatory and see it as a crime worth murdering someone now behave like experts on idolatory.

They have a problem as they everything in the same light but here i see people acting as if they have the intellectual capability to distinguish between the 2.

 

[Vinod2070]

LoL.

These videos just resonate with Hindu virtue.

You really don't want the Camel piss hadhith and the personal advice coming from experience from your prophet?

Or do you!

According to the UN estimates following were the pre-1947 percentages of Hindu and Sikh population in areas of Pakistan.

W. Punjab: 9% Hindu, 11% Sikh

Sindh: 10% Hindu, 5% Sikh

NWFP: 2.5% Hindu, 2.5% Sikh

Baluchistan: 3% Hindu

Over 50% of these figures migrated to India around the time of partition. Stop deliberately spreading false and incorrect information.

Also, Pre-1947 region of present-day Pakistan only had 15% non-Muslims, out of which half were Sikhs. Many of remaining half that were Hindus were actual migrants from the region of present day India during the British rule. For example, most of the Hindus in pre-1947 Karachi had migrated from Gujarat/Rajasthan during British rule because of Karachi's economic boom then.

OK, so 15% to 3% doesn't constitute ethnic cleansing? Bosnia had lesser ethnic cleansing that this. You think all those people left voluntarily?

That is the issue with people like you. You are so used to bigotry all around you, you don't even notice it.

And the lands of Pakistan were never Dharmic since the earliest historic times in any sense of the way and history proves it beyond any reasonable doubt. In any case Dharmic, Indic, Hindutva etc are racist terminologies which are used to spread the farce of a so-called superior supra-religion like the German Aryan race theory.

The Two nation Theory was not based on religion alone. It is primarily an Indian spread misinformation. The Two Nation Theory comprised the following major elements:

Religious differences

Governing differences

Civilizational differences

Cultural differences

Societal/Social differences

Economic differences

Political differences

You can live with your stages from being racists to supra-racists, as if any of us bothers.

Compare the massive destruction wrought by primitive uncivilized barbarian invaders that indulged in massive destruction and rapine, plunder, slavery and forced conversion etc with the deaths that occurred in Mahabharata and calculated by purest of the pure Indian Hindus - 1.66 Billion people. Can you imagine. From Rig Veda to other scriptures to Mahabharata, war is the primary element that is discussed and you have the temerity to accuse others of mass murder.

What is thankfully certain is the fact that there is no link of the Indus valley Civilization with Vedic or Hindu culture and since the earliest times Hinduism has never been a majority religion in Pakistan.

This shows that you have a very basic problem.

A problem of lack of basic comprehension skill. Coming from a major identity crisis.

A compulsive need to justify your existence, to justify the two nation theory beyond just Islam because you know how meaningless and useless the whole thing is.

That is an improvement.

And there is a long way to go.

A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step.

One day I am sure people will reject the desert bedou ideology that doesn't belong in civilized lands. However tentative the beginning may seem.

So despite the fact that we may be on opposing sides in this argument, I encourage people like you who question the wrong premise even though they can't quite figure out the correct answers right now.

 

[Thirdfront]

1. Ridiculous statement. So which other religion has Marut, Brihaspati, Savitr, Surya, Aditi, Pushan, Rbhus,Yama etc?? (All RigVedic Gods)

2. Afghanistan is in Central Asia. So, the RigVeda does indicate the geography of the tribe through such markers. There are other such clues too.

3. Again. How did you arrive at this conclusion without any evidence? It's also equally plausible that IVC borrowed the symbol from Central Asian tribes!

4. Dude, you crossed over from debate on history to theology. Hence the suggestion that you consult an expert on religion or a Jain/Buddhist monk and ask yourselves. It's not me classifying these as separate religions in their own right.

1.Nope. It is not. These gods would have been borrowed from local (read IVC) society. Indra is in other Indo-Europian societies like Iranians (where he is a daemon).

2. IVC was there in present day Afghanistan, Pakistan and India. So was Vedic culture. It means that Aryans did not describe any "foreign" motherland/father land. Another fact - Mleccha in sanskrit is akin to barbarian. Countries like Crotia are called Mleca in their language (curious isn't it?)

3. Rule of thumb. Start from simplest solution. If it doesn't contribute to any anamolies, probaly that is the right solution. Unlike maths, archaeology seldom gets exact proof. Instead of thinking a big circular connection (for which there is no evidence either), it is entirely logical that cultural exchange happened between Vedic and IVC (even though IVC had declined by then)

4. I did not go to theology. It is the discussion that whether IVC were hindus are not. You declared them as non-hindus based on your own definition of hindu. But unfortunately, that definition excludes lot of people/sects who were considered as hindus at that time. Also, Buddists and Jains are not nastikas if nastika is translated to Atheist.

 

[Indischer]

1.Nope. It is not. These gods would have been borrowed from local (read IVC) society. Indra is in other Indo-Europian societies like Iranians (where he is a daemon).

2. IVC was there in present day Afghanistan, Pakistan and India. So was Vedic culture. It means that Aryans did not describe any "foreign" motherland/father land. Another fact - Mleccha in sanskrit is akin to barbarian. Countries like Crotia are called Mleca in their language (curious isn't it?)

3. Rule of thumb. Start from simplest solution. If it doesn't contribute to any anamolies, probaly that is the right solution. Unlike maths, archaeology seldom gets exact proof. Instead of thinking a big circular connection (for which there is no evidence either), it is entirely logical that cultural exchange happened between Vedic and IVC (even though IVC had declined by then)

4. I did not go to theology. It is the discussion that whether IVC were hindus are not. You declared them as non-hindus based on your own definition of hindu. But unfortunately, that definition excludes lot of people/sects who were considered as hindus at that time. Also, Buddists and Jains are not nastikas if nastika is translated to Atheist.

1. LOL. Indra is not a demon in any culture. The Devas are. Their Gods, incidently, were Asuras(Ahura in Avestan)! Chief among them being AhuraMazda. This again points to the fact that ancient Iranians and Indo-Aryans shared a fraternal culture that eventually disagreed on the choice of whom to worship.

2. Countries like Crotia are called Mleca in their language (curious isn't it?) I have no idea what you are trying to say here. Plus, the Vedic culture does not describe any cities. Their lifestyle in the RigVeda is a rural one. They have left no clues about their knowledge of any IVC city or town. Horses, which are so important in Vedic culture, are totally absent in IVC. Hence, their cultures cannot be concluded to have influenced each other for lack of any evidence.

3. The simplest solution is that it doesn't take rocket science for any culture to come up with a symbol as simple as the Swastika. Again, if the Vedic culture borrowed this symbol from the IVC after they entered India, there is no way this symbol could have simultaneously been portrayed in other European and Eurasian cultures. Only the spread of Swastika to Eastern Asia can be reasonably pointed out to coincide with the spread of Buddhist missionaries.

4. You seem to think that Indian is synonymous with Hindu! The people of IVC were Indian no doubt, but there is no evidence whatsoever that they were Hindus. There is no evidence of a temple in any of the cities so far! Whatever their religion was, it's contribution to Hinduism has been next to nothing. Monotheism, polytheism and agnosticism are all very evident in the Vedas themselves. But you cannot be absolutely sure about the non-existence of God and then say you belong to a "faith". The Mimamsa schools have debated about the veracity of Vedas as truth, not about there being no God at all. 2 of the 4 primary Nastika sects that have survived to this day are both seen as separate religions(Dharmic origin nevertheless). Hence, they can be called indigenous religions, but not Sanatana Dharma itself.