Since Earliest Historical Times Hinduism Was Never Popular in Pakistan

[Indischer]

The vedic culture is continuation of Indus Valley civilization. If you will study the mature Harappan period, it shares a lot similarity with vedic, a terracota shivalinga was found in Haryana of Mature Harappan period. In cemetery H area of Harappa there are proofs of cremation, Rigveda mentions about custom of burying done by ancestors of Rigvedic Indians. All the ancient Harappan sites are westward in Pakistan while later or mature Harappan period are mainly inside India.

It would be helpful if you could cite some sources about the points you made. I haven't read about the shivalinga in terracotta and evidence of cremation. From what I've read, there are very few similarities between early and middle harappan civilization with Vedic culture. But I'd be happy to read more on this.

 

[Nassr]

Archeological Evidence? Then I think you are thinking more like a jaundice eye. You see what u want to. I only wish you can prove convincingly how ur pakistanis are right and the world is wrong. neways....



Well if you are able to comprehend things then you shudnt be explained. Mahabharata is a poem and due to so called'poetic effect', the the facts in the book related to strength, stature, etc of individuals can be debated. But the places in that cannot be. Mahabharat "archeologically" took place just before establishment of MAHAJANPADAS. atleast if you trust in this word's historicity, then you will see the regions and states in mahajanpadas were exactly similar to that mentioned in the epic poem. End of the day anyone who narrated a story dint create cities and places out of nowhere. right?


Now please care to explain how does number to times and percentage prove anything? Even if a word is taken once in any story, it wud mean its existence. Or you mean that name of a region or state taken 10 times means its more real than name of a region taken only twice? If i take name of pakistan in my store 2 times means pakistan dint exist and if i take 20 times means it existed. Wierd Logic. isnt it?



Monothestic can be explained in numerous ways. Well, you can twist it for your ease. Even worshipping Mahadeva means you dont worship any other god as prevelant in mainland India. Also, you dint worship idol of mahadeva but a round stone circled by a broken circle. ie. SHIV LING. Worshipping shiv ling is also monothestic in nature. isnt it?



OK. go shout it in international conferences and you will see why Pakistanis arent taken seriously globally. he he

Mention of locations in a story does not mean that the story is correct, it still remains a story.

Mention of Bharatas in Rig Veda was to indicate the importance.

Mention of practice of monotheistic religions in this part of the world was to highlight that these people essentially did not practice what Indian Hindus practice.

People in international conferences and scripts have started mentioning the IVC as Pakistani civilization. Though at times they do add Pakistani and India civilization, but that is likely to diminish as the facts start emerging more clearly.

 

[kingkobra]

Dude, the fact that Deva meant God is indisputable(Deva is descended from Proto Indo European *div or light. Also the root of the word divine). Why are you trying to stir controversy where none exist? The fact that many Devas and their divine powers are mentioned in the RigVeda suggest a polytheistic outlook while the hymns that you and I quoted earlier suggest a monothistic as well as Agnostic outlook. Hence, I said that their interpretation and compliance are left as a personal choice rather than as a dogmatic rule. Btw, I am restricting myself to the RigVeda alone. Please don't suggest body of texts outside this to prove that Ishwara was the supreme diety and Hinduism is monotheistic.

You do not decide the rules of debate..If you have any problem with me quoting from other vedas then please by all means leave this debate.

Hindus themselves do not know what devata means and hence the debacle of sanatana dharma in bharatvarsha.

Ishwar is also a ‘Devata’, any entity – living or non-living – that helps us or is useful for us is termed ‘Devata’. But that does not mean every entity is Ishwar and should be worshipped.
The Vedas refer to not 33 crore Devatas but 33 types (Koti in Sanskrit) of Devatas. They are explained in Shatpath Brahman and many other scriptures very clearly.

"Yasya Trayastrinshad Devaa Ange Sarve Samaahitaa, Skamma Tam Bruhi Katamah Swideva Sah”. ~(Atharva Veda 10-7-13)

Which means: with God’s influence, these thirty-three (supporting devta) sustain the world.

There are mantras like below in Rig veda which prove that Ishwar alone is creator of all the devatas

The Supreme One who represents selflessness, controls the entire universe, is present everywhere and is the Devata of all Devatas, alone is source of bliss. Those who do not understand Him remain drenched in sorrow and those who realize Him achieve unconditional happiness. (Rigveda 1.164.39)
Below are the 100 names of ishwara:

100 Names of God | Agniveer Fan

 

[Indischer]

Mention of locations in a story does not mean that the story is correct, it still remains a story.

Mention of Bharatas in Rig Veda was to indicate the importance.

Mention of practice of monotheistic religions in this part of the world was to highlight that these people essentially did not practice what Indian Hindus practice.

People in international conferences and scripts have started mentioning the IVC as Pakistani civilization. Though at times they do add Pakistani and India civilization, but that is likely to diminish as the facts start emerging more clearly.

Your first line aptly describes this thread. Whatever stories that one might add about the Indian region that is today known as Pakistan the fact remains that no Archeologist or Philologist worth his salt will say that IVC is a Pakisatani civilization or that Pakistan has a culture that's very distinct from India.

It's like saying that since Taj Mahal is in India, today's Pakistanis had nothing to do with it.

 

[Nassr]

@kingkobra

Very informative posts indeed.  

Your first line aptly describes this thread. Whatever stories that one might add about the Indian region that is today known as Pakistan the fact remains that no Archeologist or Philologist worth his salt will say that IVC is a Pakisatani civilization or that Pakistan has a culture that's very distinct from India.

It's like saying that since Taj Mahal is in India, today's Pakistanis had nothing to do with it.

How many times have you visited Pakistan.

 

[Indischer]

You do not decide the rules of debate..If you have any problem with me quoting from other vedas then please by all means leave this debate.

Hindus themselves do not know what devata means and hence the debacle of sanatana dharma in bharatvarsha.

Ishwar is also a ‘Devata’, any entity – living or non-living – that helps us or is useful for us is termed ‘Devata’. But that does not mean every entity is Ishwar and should be worshipped.
The Vedas refer to not 33 crore Devatas but 33 types (Koti in Sanskrit) of Devatas. They are explained in Shatpath Brahman and many other scriptures very clearly.

"Yasya Trayastrinshad Devaa Ange Sarve Samaahitaa, Skamma Tam Bruhi Katamah Swideva Sah”. ~(Atharva Veda 10-7-13)

Which means: with God’s influence, these thirty-three (supporting devta) sustain the world.

There are mantras like below in Rig veda which prove that Ishwar alone is creator of all the devatas

The Supreme One who represents selflessness, controls the entire universe, is present everywhere and is the Devata of all Devatas, alone is source of bliss. Those who do not understand Him remain drenched in sorrow and those who realize Him achieve unconditional happiness. (Rigveda 1.164.39)
Below are the 100 names of ishwara:

100 Names of God | Agniveer Fan

So you are the one who sets the rules of debate, is it? LOL, but it's fine with me. Please stop fooling around by saying that there are only 33 different types of divinities and then going on to claim RigVeda as monotheistic.

Since RigVeda is considered the oldest Veda and the foundation of our Sanatana Dharma, I requested you to stick to that. I am very sure that the RigVeda does not profess Monotheism. It has a long list of Vedic dieties, all with different powers, and some that are immortal, suggesting they are Gods. If you have a problem with this interpretation, I cannot help it. Maybe the best we can do is to agree to disagree and move on rather than impose each other's will.

 

[kingkobra]

It would be helpful if you could cite some sources about the points you made. I haven't read about the shivalinga in terracotta and evidence of cremation. From what I've read, there are very few similarities between early and middle harappan civilization with Vedic culture. But I'd be happy to read more on this.

Absence of cremation does not necessarily suggest absence of vedic culture as vedas support both cremation and burial. Although I have never heard about shivlinga, there are indeed fire altars found in IVC which support the vedic culture theory since yajnya is the way of worship in vedas and not idols.

 

[WAR-rior]

Mention of locations in a story does not mean that the story is correct, it still remains a story.

Then please refer MAHAJANPADAS and see where the maps go and to clarify, MAHAJANPADAS are history not an epic.

Mention of Bharatas in Rig Veda was to indicate the importance.

Are you sure? I say 'Bharat' in those mentions meant 'BHARAT KUL' ie. BHARAT CLAN which again meant all the regions under that come from common ancestry and hence had common culture. For you understanding, exactly how ISLAMIC TRIBES came into formation. Thats why marriages use to happen among states but under the BHARAT CLAN/TRIBE.

Mention of practice of monotheistic religions in this part of the world was to highlight that these people essentially did not practice what Indian Hindus practice.

This again is subjective to which era you are mentioning? Do see how the cultures changed in Indian subcontinent from 3000 BCE to 2000 CE ie. today. Please refer History of India - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

What you shud focus is on how the eras were different but then in every era the cultures spread uniformly throughout Indian subcontinent and not seperately in Pakistani and Indian region. Just focus on the subsequent changes overtime.

People in international conferences and scripts have started mentioning the IVC as Pakistani civilization. Though at times they do add Pakistani and India civilization, but that is likely to diminish as the facts start emerging more clearly.

I never came across any credible source or scholar claiming this. Please enlighten me with your INTERNATIONAL CONFERENCES.

 

[Indischer]

Absence of cremation does not necessarily suggest absence of vedic culture as vedas support both cremation and burial. Although I have never heard about shivlinga, there are indeed fire altars found in IVC which support the vedic culture theory since yajnya is the way of worship in vedas and not idols.

I too had read about fire altars, but weren't these altars found only in Kalibangan? Haven't come across evidence of such altars either in Harappa, Mohenjo Daro or Lothal(the really big ones i.e). Also, wasn't the function of these altars ambiguous?

 

[Ayush]

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

 

[kingkobra]

So you are the one who sets the rules of debate, is it? LOL, but it's fine with me. Please stop fooling around by saying that there are only 33 different types of divinities and then going on to claim RigVeda as monotheistic.

Since RigVeda is considered the oldest Veda and the foundation of our Sanatana Dharma, I requested you to stick to that. I am very sure that the RigVeda does not profess Monotheism. It has a long list of Vedic dieties, all with different powers, and some that are immortal, suggesting they are Gods. If you have a problem with this interpretation, I cannot help it. Maybe the best we can do is to agree to disagree and move on rather than impose each other's will.

Lol so you are saying that you can not refute any of the verses provided by me from rig veda or any other veda and yet you want everyone to believe your views are correct ?

Since you are such a huge "fan" of rig veda here are some more hymnas from rig veda:

First of them is the very first hymna I presented which you still have not refuted.

Rig Veda 1.164.46: Indraṃ mitraṃ varuṇamaghnimāhuratho divyaḥ sa suparṇo gharutmān,
ekaṃ sad viprā bahudhā vadantyaghniṃ yamaṃ mātariśvānamāhuḥ
"They call him Indra, Mitra, Varuṇa, Agni, and he is heavenly nobly-winged Garutmān.
To what is One, sages give many a title they call it Agni, Yama, Mātariśvan."

Rigveda 10.48.1: Ishwar alone is omnipresent and manager of entire universe. He alone provides victory and eternal cause of world. All souls should look up only to Him in same manner as children look up to their Father. He alone provides for our sustenance and bliss.

Rigveda 10.48.5Ishwar enlightens the entire world. He is undefeated and undying. He is the creator of the world. All souls should seek bliss through seeking knowledge and acting thereupon. They should never shun the friendship of Ishwar.

Rigveda 10.49.1Ishwar alone provides true knowledge to truth seekers. He alone is promoter of knowledge and motivates virtuous people into noble actions to seek bliss. He alone is the creator and manager of the world. Hence never worship anyone else except one and only Ishwar.

here are more :

Rigveda 10.82.3: Yo na pitah janitha vidhata dhamani veda bhuvanani vishwa|

Yo devaanam namadha yeka yeva tam samprashnam bhuvanam yantyanya||

All these several worlds, find ultimate refuge, in that curiosity-provoking, thought –arousing Lord who is our father and creator, who is , the maker of sacred injunctions and Knows all the abodes and worlds and finally who is only one assuming the names of different divinities.

Vedas describe only One God at all places. The advice is He alone should be praised and worshipped. He alone is the emperor of the Universe.

Rig-Veda 6.36.4: Yekho Vishwasya bhuvanasya rajah

The Lord of the entire universe is one and one only.

 

[WAR-rior]

ON TOPIC: Its foolish and hilarious to say Hiduism which was called SANATAN DHARMA ie. PAGAN RELIGION was not prevelant before the Abrahmic religions came into practice. Before Abrahmic it was only and only Hindu Pagan religion till SWAT region of current Pakistan, Ahead of Swat it was ZOROASTRIAN till boundries of GREEK CIVILIZATION. On east it was CHINESE Pagamism. It wasnt so complex until this world was filled in with plethora of Abrahmic Religion. he he.

 

[Nassr]

Then please refer MAHAJANPADAS and see where the maps go and to clarify, MAHAJANPADAS are history not an epic.


Are you sure? I say 'Bharat' in those mentions meant 'BHARAT KUL' ie. BHARAT CLAN which again meant all the regions under that come from common ancestry and hence had common culture. For you understanding, exactly how ISLAMIC TRIBES came into formation. Thats why marriages use to happen among states but under the BHARAT CLAN/TRIBE.


This again is subjective to which era you are mentioning? Do see how the cultures changed in Indian subcontinent from 3000 BCE to 2000 CE ie. today. Please refer History of India - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

What you shud focus is on how the eras were different but then in every era the cultures spread uniformly throughout Indian subcontinent and not seperately in Pakistani and Indian region. Just focus on the subsequent changes overtime.



I never came across any credible source or scholar claiming this. Please enlighten me with your INTERNATIONAL CONFERENCES.

Buddhist and Jain texts only casually refer to the Mahajanapadas with almost no details. So how would the stories, as referred to in Mahabharata are qualified to be true. Like I said earlier mere mention of geographic details does not confirm stories narrated about those locations.

History of India is not history of Pakistan. Please read about history of Republic of India and feel great.

Please read, A History of India by Romila Thapar. She also mentions about the IVC being monotheistic. There are others and international conferences where the IVC is mentioned as Pakistani civilization.

 

[MilSpec]

After few centuries Pakistani kids will start to claim Pakistan had no history of Hinduism, just like you will see many of them claiming now that Gandhara had no history of Hinduism.

isn't that a good thing?

 

[Nassr]

ON TOPIC: Its foolish and hilarious to say Hiduism which was called SANATAN DHARMA ie. PAGAN RELIGION was not prevelant before the Abrahmic religions came into practice. Before Abrahmic it was only and only Hindu Pagan religion till SWAT region of current Pakistan, Ahead of Swat it was ZOROASTRIAN till boundries of GREEK CIVILIZATION. On east it was CHINESE Pagamism. It wasnt so complex until this world was filled in with plethora of Abrahmic Religion. he he.

Please re-read the first post. Details are mentioned with time frame which clearly indicate that the land of Pakistan was Hindu only in limited context and in some parts. Majority population did not follow the Indian Hindu religion whereas only some rulers were Brahmins/Hindus, and this is a fact. Majority followed monotheistic formats, Buddhism and later Islam.