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Since Earliest Historical Times Hinduism Was Never Popular in Pakistan

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^ I am sure Hindus will find prototype of shiva or any other God and some practices of Hinduism in every civilization even in ancient Egypt civilization if they try bit hard lol :D

Hinduism is such a complex belief system that it leave good opportunities for doubts, guess and speculations
 
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LOL have you even gone though the links, What was the religion of IVC according to you then?, according to the links Hinduism was the most likely religion of IVC (with similar beliefs, similar deities and similar symbols). Yes it can't be conclusively proved that Hinduism was the religion followed in IVC but it can't be conclusively proved that it wasn't the one either. That is why I say that origins of Hinduism are unknown, it can be 2500 BC with the Vedic period or it can be much earlier too, it's not known and it's not proved.

So we go by what's conclusively proven, not what's mere speculation. The origins of Hinduism till that time will be tied to the origin of the RigVeda, which is so integral to Hinduism.

^ I am sure Hindus will find prototype of shiva or any other God and some practices of Hinduism in every civilization even in ancient Egypt civilization if they try bit hard lol :D

Hinduism is such a complex belief system that it leave good opportunities for doubts, guess and speculations

The same way Pakistanis will go to any lengths to prove that their ancestors were not Hindu once. It's human nature tied to notions of supremacy brought on by inherent insecurity.

Precisely why Hinduism has survived to this day. The speculation of the nature of existence, conscience and God can never be hard-and-fast rules. Any rules that we follow are all set by ourselves, not ordained by any divine authority.
 
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So we go by what's conclusively proven, not what's mere speculation. The origins of Hinduism till that time will be tied to the origin of the RigVeda, which is so integral to Hinduism.

What conclusively proven is that origins of Hinduism are unknown and that it is atleast 5500 years old. Nobody can be sure and prove how old is it or from where it came.
 
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What conclusively proven is that origins of Hinduism are unknown and that it is atleast 5500 years old. Nobody can be sure and prove how old is it or from where it came.

LOL. Sure dude. If you wish to be the Alice in Wonderland, who am I to stop you. Also, Hindus believe that the Human race is a billion years old if counted w.r.t the different yugas and their timespans. You might wanna propagate that too henceforth.:partay:
 
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The same way Pakistanis will go to any lengths to prove that their ancestors were not Hindu once. It's human nature tied to notions of supremacy brought on by inherent insecurity.

Precisely why Hinduism has survived to this day. The speculation of the nature of existence, conscience and God can never be hard-and-fast rules. Any rules that we follow are all set by ourselves, not ordained by any divine authority.

Majority of Pakistani including myself don't feel the need to search the religious beliefs of ancient people of this region.We are very satisfied and content with what we are following right now and that's all matter as long as religious beliefs concern that your heart must be satisfied . Hinduism is consist of many traditions and you cannot get definite answer about starting point of Hinduism. Read here certain traditions and practices were even found in ancient Egypt civilization so that would mean those people were also follower of Hinduism

Hinduism and Ancient Egyptian Religion:--

Considering the enormous geographical distance between India and Egypt, ancient Egyptian religion and modern Hinduism have a surprising number of similarities in concepts and practices. This is not to say that other polytheistic religions do not have similarities with each other or with ancient Egypt but not in what appears to be such abundance as between ancient Egyptian and Hinduism. A number of religions do have similarities with Hinduism, such as Buddhism (which was born from Hinduism), and some African belief systems, but as Hinduism is one of the six main world religions the comparisons between this vibrant religion and a long-extinct ancient religion are interesting.

Aspects of Hinduism can be traced to the Indus Valley Civilisation (approximately 2500 BC), when it was at a cultural high point, through the archaeological record, although this religion is not recognisable as the form practised by Hindus today. The Indus Valley Civilisation and their religion is contemporary with the Egyptian Old Kingdom and the religion of the ancient Egyptians was in a fully developed form. How the ancient Egyptian religion developed is unknown as no written records of these developmental stages. Hieroglyphs were not introduced until approximately 3100 BC on the Narmer Palette whereas the Indus Valley civilisation has written texts dating to prior 2500 BC, from the Mohenjo-Daro region. Unfortunately this language has not yet been deciphered (Brockington 1996, 24) and therefore the contents (religious or otherwise) are unknown to us.

However, it is likely that some elements of the Indus Valley religion may have become absorbed into that of the invading Aryans (2500-1500 BC) and therefore into modern Hinduism. The Aryan invasion of India instigated a decline in the Indus Valley Civilisation, and a loss or absorption of the traditional religion into that of the Aryans. The Aryan race recorded their beliefs in Sanskrit, which has been deciphered and has produced a number of religious texts; which are still important to modern Hindus. The earliest known Hindu texts are the Vedas written in approximately 1500-1000 BC (Brockington 1996, 7), which are primarily concerned with the elemental gods (e.g. fire, sun, wind and storms) and the ritual of sacrifice and cosmic balance.

The earliest written religious texts in Egypt, are the Pyramid Texts from the pyramid of Unas (2375- 2345 BC) approximately 1000 years earlier than the Hindu Vedas. Both the Vedas and the ancient Egyptian religion were passed down orally for generations but only remained in a fixed form once they were recorded. However the Vedas, although passed down for centuries through oral tradition, were considered too sacred to permanently record (Brockington 1996, 8) indicating the traditions may have existed for as long as the Egyptian beliefs if not longer before being recorded. Like the Vedas, and indeed many early belief systems the gods of the Pyramid Texts are elemental as the sun (Re) is the primary deity of these texts, although there are also many references to the stars, the river and the environmental elements involved in the creation stories, where deities of the sky, earth, air and moisture are the first created by the sun god (Hart 1990, 10-8).

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Since 1947, the Hindu population of Pakistan decreased from 20% to 1% now. I don't know whether is it is due to less popularity of Hinduism or forcible conversion and persecution of Hindus

It was due to the fact that majority of hindus lived in East Pakistan, and when it became Bangladesh Pakistan lost its hindu population significantly.
If we all used a little common sense then the world will be an easy place to live in. No?

:coffee:
 
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Good. Now read them yourself and find out if any of them state that IVC practiced Hinduism. No reliable scholar, I repeat, has gone on record to say that IVC practiced Sanatana Dharma beyond any doubt. All these sources will only say that Hinduism may have incorporated some beliefs from IVC(again with doubt), not that Hinduism itself was the religion of IVC.
If you are looking at present day Hinduism and asking whether IVC practiced it, the answer is definitely no. I wonder if even vedic people practiced today's hinduism. But most of scholars agree that they practiced a form of ritual that later absorbed/developed into Hinduism (depends on the way you want to look at it). I am curious to know your definition of Hinduism as lot of things depend upon that too...
 
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It is you who deny accepting the facts and only resort to responses based on your belief of certain environment.

What we do in our country is none of your business. We believe in heroes we believe were heroes. You do not agree, please don't. But these do not in any way change the historical facts *** highlighted here.

And yes, nothing is going to force us to accept what your beliefs are. We are not going to accept heroes who we do not consider as heroes.

And that is fine. Whatever we may think of such heroes and such followers and their ideology, that is your prerogative.

But I am amazed that you don't see the contradictions between these heroes (and all that it implies) and the premise of this thread and your obsession with Dharmic religions and our country.

What was the religion of founders of Vedic culture and Hindu culture. Just because the belief of some one before accepting another faith is different, it does not mean that the new faith automatically become a sub-sect and does not retain its separate entity. Such kind of religious universalism is not accepted by large majority of people around the world. After all why did they change their earlier beliefs and accepted new ones.

You don't really want to know that. ;)

Look at how the Persians converted wholesale to Shiaism from Sunnism to get a clue.

It was due to the fact that majority of hindus lived in East Pakistan, and when it became Bangladesh Pakistan lost its hindu population significantly.
If we all used a little common sense then the world will be an easy place to live in. No?

:coffee:

West Pakistan had ~20% Hindu/Sikh population before partition.

^ I am sure Hindus will find prototype of shiva or any other God and some practices of Hinduism in every civilization even in ancient Egypt civilization if they try bit hard lol :D

Hinduism is such a complex belief system that it leave good opportunities for doubts, guess and speculations

The universe is complex. ;)

Anyway, why the 100s of sects in your final and perfect religion? Things didn't seem to have turned out exactly as expected! ;)
 
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If you are looking at present day Hinduism and asking whether IVC practiced it, the answer is definitely no. I wonder if even vedic people practiced today's hinduism. But most of scholars agree that they practiced a form of ritual that later absorbed/developed into Hinduism (depends on the way you want to look at it). I am curious to know your definition of Hinduism as lot of things depend upon that too...

I have repeatedly stressed that any mature version of Sanatana Dharma involves the Vedas at their core. The rituals and worship of Gods prescribed in the Vedas are what constitute the core of Sanatana Dharma. Shaivism, Vaishnavism, the Upanishads etc are later additions that might have developed as a consequence of Vedas or as independent cults which were later incorporated into Hinduism.

No hymn or ritual carried out today is older than those prescribed in the RgVeda. The IVC might have had a religion that was incorporated into Sanatana Dharma, but it has left no trace in the Hinduism of today. All of today's mainstream Hindu practices can be traced back incrementally to religious texts compiled within 10th century AD, with the most basic mantras of Homas/Havans traceable to the Vedas.
 
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I have repeatedly stressed that any mature version of Sanatana Dharma involves the Vedas at their core. The rituals and worship of Gods prescribed in the Vedas are what constitute the core of Sanatana Dharma. Shaivism, Vaishnavism, the Upanishads etc are later additions that might have developed as a consequence of Vedas or as independent cults which were later incorporated into Hinduism.

No hymn or ritual carried out today is older than those prescribed in the RgVeda. The IVC might have had a religion that was incorporated into Sanatana Dharma, but it has left no trace in the Hinduism of today. All of today's mainstream Hindu practices can be traced back incrementally to religious texts compiled within 10th century AD, with the most basic mantras of Homas/Havans traceable to the Vedas.

Vedas are the oldest preserved texts in India and one of the oldest in the world (even though written later). So, if IVC practiced vedic rituals (some form of it) and since their language is essentially undeciphered till now, there is no way one can prove/disprove your argument. But there are few fallacies in your argument. First one is that today, there are thousands of local deities who are not prescribed in Vedas. Major gods like Rama and Krishna too are not in vedas. Second is, there were a significant movement started by a sage called Charvaka who said "those who believe vedas came from the mouth of Brahma are idiots". As per your definition, he is not a Sanatan Dharmi. But the question here is not about Sanatan Dharma, but Hinduism.
 
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^ I am sure Hindus will find prototype of shiva or any other God and some practices of Hinduism in every civilization even in ancient Egypt civilization if they try bit hard lol :D

Hinduism is such a complex belief system that it leave good opportunities for doubts, guess and speculations

It is ironic that you mentioned Egyptian Civilization here.;)
 
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Vedas are the oldest preserved texts in India and one of the oldest in the world (even though written later). So, if IVC practiced vedic rituals (some form of it) and since their language is essentially undeciphered till now, there is no way one can prove/disprove your argument. But there are few fallacies in your argument. First one is that today, there are thousands of local deities who are not prescribed in Vedas. Major gods like Rama and Krishna too are not in vedas. Second is, there were a significant movement started by a sage called Charvaka who said "those who believe vedas came from the mouth of Brahma are idiots". As per your definition, he is not a Sanatan Dharmi. But the question here is not about Sanatan Dharma, but Hinduism.

I guess you've to re-read my earlier post. The texts that declare about Rama & Krishna are part of the body of work that constitute Vaishnavism. Similar texts exist for Shaivism too. These are not older than the Vedas and the Sanskrit used in these texts suggest that they were formed after Panini codified Sanskrit. This suggests that the authors were probably Aryanized folks following the Vedic fold. And YES, Charvaka excluded himself from mainstream Sanatana Dharma and founded his own school of thought. He was, like Mahavira or Buddha, founder of a seperate philosophical movement.
 
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West Pakistan had ~20% Hindu/Sikh population before partition.
Yea we Pakistani are Dracula who like to suck the blood of Hindus so we ate them all lol Dont spread lies here as you are not on Indian defense forum.

After the independence of Pakistan in 1947, minority Hindus and Sikhs migrated to India while the Muslims refugees from India settled down in the Pakistan. Approximately 6 million Hindus and Sikhs moved to India while nearly equal number of Muslim settled in Pakistan. Some Hindus in Pakistan feel that they are treated as second class citizens and many have migrated to India.

In 1951, Hindus constituted 22 percent of the Pakistani population and the Hindu population was concentrated in East Pakistan which later became Bangladesh, while Hindu population in West Pakistan was less than 2%. By 1998 the proportion of Hindus was down to around 1.7 percent.This huge drop is due to the creation of Bangladesh in 1971, where the bulk of pre-1971 Pakistani Hindus resided and emigration of Hindus from Pakistan.

The fact that over 1 million people lost their lives in the bloody violence of 1947, should attest to the fear and hate that filled the hearts of millions of Muslims, Hindus and Sikhs who had to leave ancestral homes during hastily after independence.

Many Hindus who attained great success in the public eye in India, like the filmstars and directors Dev Anand, Raj Kapoor, Ramesh Sippy, Vinod Khanna, Manoj Kumar, Rajkumar, Yash Chopra, Balraj Sahni, Rajendra Kumar and Sunil Dutt trace their birthplaces and ancestral homes to the towns of Pakistan. Independent India's first Test cricket captain, Lala Amarnath hailed from Lahore, prime ministers I K Gujral and Manmohan Singh are also from the part of the Punjab which became part of Pakistan, and former deputy prime minister Lal Krishna Advani was born in Karachi. Nearly all of these individuals left their homes due to the violence and turmoil of independence.

Source: Hinduism in Pakistan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Anyway, why the 100s of sects in your final and perfect religion? Things didn't seem to have turned out exactly as expected! ;)

100 ? lol don't exaggerate. 75–90% of total Muslim population are Sunni and 10-20% are Shia Muslims so these are the only two major sects and rest 98 sects (lol) are very tiny compare to them

It is ironic that you mentioned Egyptian Civilization here.;)
what is irony? It was just to point out that you Hindu can find Hinduism and Hindu God/Goddess in everything :D
 
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what is irony? It was just to point out that you Hindu can find Hinduism and Hindu God/Goddess in everything :D

According to some Historians,Egyptians do have connections with Indic religions. It is connected to Islamic civilization too.For further info ask Mr.Herodotus :D
 
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I guess you've to re-read my earlier post. The texts that declare about Rama & Krishna are part of the body of work that constitute Vaishnavism. Similar texts exist for Shaivism too. These are not older than the Vedas and the Sanskrit used in these texts suggest that they were formed after Panini codified Sanskrit. This suggests that the authors were probably Aryanized folks following the Vedic fold. And YES, Charvaka excluded himself from mainstream Sanatana Dharma and founded his own school of thought. He was, like Mahavira or Buddha, founder of a seperate philosophical movement.
And what was that? Which movement was started by Mahavir (AFAIK, he was last thithankar of Jainism). So all the followers of current philosophical movements like Saibaba etc are non-hindus? I see it as circular argument from your side. There are no known/deciphered texts older than Vedas (in Indian subcontinent). Your question is similar to asking whether Christianity existed before bible and then defining Christians as followers of bible. Hinduism did not pop-up in a day. It did evolve overtime and to consider it separate just because of the absence of text is a very narrow definition of Hinduism. By your definition, majority of Indians are non-hindus. Again curious, where did you get this definition of Hinduism?
 
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