Since Earliest Historical Times Hinduism Was Never Popular in Pakistan

[Nassr]

@bronxbull,

If we discuss history as history alone and do not convert it as a religious discussion, we can be more objective in arriving at appropriate conclusions.

All religions have been fighting with each other and it is not something new. It is just that when we can discern between the exaggerations and objective historical analyses, correct pictures may then emerge. But it is indeed a difficult undertaking.

 

[RangerPK]

Thats because Muslims classify pagan religions of India as Hind,they slaughtered everyone who resisted to become a muslim,so naturally the eco system became hindu as a single identity.

Sikhs have a problem because of political nature,not spiritual.

No, the Muslims did not commit genocide to kill all Polytheist, in fact, they tried to live side by side with them. Thus, polytheist are still in subcontinent today. It is because of this attitude of Muslims, that even the Europeans did not commit genocide on Polytheist to root them out of South Asia, because more or less, they were protected by the Muslim community.

Most of polytheism has been eradicated from this world ( Not counting Christians), either through force or education, but it still remains strong in South Asia....

Its because Muslims did not kill you, but rather choose to live with Polytheists side by side..
How ever Christians have a different approach to Polytheism, thus you don't find any polytheist in the new world North and South America.

 

[jaibi]

People warned me here that taking a post would have me attacked by jocks like you. Very well. I've read the history in detail and as someone who does this sort of thing for a living let me tell you something: History is not lateral. If you do not know what that means, you should really reflect about the veracity of claims that you are making. If it does then we can move forward.

In any case, I told you that the region, note that word: region, between the Rivers Indus and Ganges is the birthplace for Hinduism and Buddhism: that does not merely mean they were conceived over here but also thrived, perhaps you've missed the meaning of it.

Second, comes the claim of the Indus Valley Civilisation being monotheist; that proposition has not been able to be confirmed and remains conjecture to this point: there's a reason for this, we do not understand their language and secondly, these people have created inscriptions, tools and structures, that might as well be used for religious symbols. However, due to their probable egalitarian structure there seems to be greater probability that their faith was of a similar fashion. You would know this if you knew how to actually read history. It's not a problem just know the difference between an opinion and an agreed upon truth.

The last issue I would address is the hilarious direction you took my original post: the word 'Hindu' has an obscure heritage, the most probable source of it would be the word ''ndas' which comes from what makes our river Indus.

Mr. Chairman,

It becomes exciting when a shrimp starts making proclamations about history. However, just to satisfy your misplaced ego, I will quote some of the references for your satisfaction, though those of us who have some knowledge about history would not need many references to accept the narrated facts.

For various dates mentioned about Indus Valley Civilization Wikipedia is good enough.

For IVC being monotheist, please read Penguin History of India by Romila Thapar and papers written by Khan A. Sufyan amongst others.

About definition of Hindu religion and its emanation, please read

G. Singh,Sakasthan and India, Toronto, 1999, p. 20
Jawaharlal Nehru, The Discovery of India, New Delhi,1983, p.75
Swami Dharma Theertha, History of HinduImperialism, Madras, 1992, p. 178
KhushwantSingh, India: An Introduction, New Delhi, 1990, p. 19
Percival Spear, India: A Modern History, Michigan,1961, p.40
Encyclopedia Britannica, 20 `Hinduism' 519

For the Buddhist gandhara Srolls, please read the article at
University of Washington Press - Books - Ancient Buddhist Scrolls from Gandhara

For references of Alexander and Porus and its relationship to Rig Veda described tribes, please read

Decline and Fall of Buddhism: A Tragedy in Ancient India, K. Jamanadas, Blumoon Books, 2004
Political and Social Movement in Ancient Punjab, By Buddha Prakash, pp 77
A History of its Culture and Civilisation, By Kosambi, Damodar Dharmanand, pp 81-83
A History of India, By Hermann Kulke, Dietmar Rothermung, pp 57
The founders of Indus valley civilization and their later history, By Naval Viyogi, pp 155

For details about Mauryan Empire, please read

The Mauryas: Chandragupta
The First Great Political Realist: Kautilya and His Arthashastra, by Boesche, Roger, 2003.
P. 266 Encyclopedia of Religion and Ethics Part 1 By James Hastings
P. 92 Paurānic and Tāntric Religion: Early Phase By Jitendra Nath Banerjea
P. 212 Age of the Nandas and Mauryas By K. A. Nilakanta Sastri

About Kushan Empire, please read

Monotheism - By Branch / Doctrine - The Basics of Philosophy.
"Afghanistan: Central Asian and Sassanian Rule, ca. 150 B.C.-700 A.D.". United States: Library of Congress Country Studies. 1997
Xinru Liu, The Silk Road in World History (New York: Oxford University Press, 2010)

For references about Kabul Shahi Kingdoms, please read

Sehrai, Fidaullah (1979). Hund: The Forgotten City of Gandhara, p. 2. Peshawar Museum Publications New Series, Peshawar.
The Pathans, 1958, p 108, 109, Olaf Caroe.
Geography of Ancient and Medieval India, 1971, p 100-102, 108, Dr D. C. Sircar

For Mohammad Bin Qasim’s invasion of Sindh, please read the Chach Nama.

For references on Islamic invasion of Afghanistan, please read

Islamic Conquest, Library of Congress Country Studies on Afghanistan
Ancient Indian History and Civilization, by Sailendra Nath Sen
The Afghans, Edition: illustrated Published by Wiley-Blackwell, 2002
A Glossary Of The Tribes And Castes Of The Punjab And North-West Frontier Province Vol. 3 By H.A. Rose, Denzil Ibbetson Sir Published by Atlantic Publishers & Distributors, 1997


Mr. Chairman, whoever told you that Ganges was the birth place of Hinduism and Buddhism. Ever heard the name Aryavarta. Have you ever had the occasion of reading history as it should be read, without “Pride and Prejudice.”

Sir, you may be a very proud Muslim, but I am a proud Pakistani as well.

Thank you indeed for your voluminous comments, the weight of which is indeed killing me.



Please do not get angry. I have highlighted historical facts. Your opinion should be based on understanding the history in true perspective and not anger.

 

[Nassr]

The west can refer things in anyway they want,we know how to slap sense into Indian kids.

Let the IVC be pakistani but people can see for themselves and decide what is which.

You can fool too much when pakistanis tend to behave like Arabs more than pakistani.

Pakistanis were never Arabs and are not Arabs. Large majority of Pakistanis are the descendants of original inhabitants of this land. It at times surprises me as to why most Indians identify Pakistanis as Arabs sarcastically.

 

[jaibi]

@RangerPK it's useless arguing against @bronxbul she prescribes to the Hindutiva version of history and all of us bathed in the blood of Hindus and Sikhs in the East according to them. Don't waste your time, mate.

 

[bronxbull]

Ins spite of Christians having elements of polytheism in themselves, they are still strong a opposition of polytheism. Much of genocide committed by the Europeans/Christians in the new world North/South America was motivated by their "Christian mission" to eradicate Polytheism from the world, and they did, by killing all the polytheist men, women and children, and destroying their culture. Its a white elephant in the room.

Muslims don't do that, because, it is a futile exercise.

The Christians have become misguided themselves, and practices which have not been ordered by God, have entered their distorted "religion"

I dont think the issue was polytheism at all.

Even though they described it in many ways like,

1.White Man's burden

2.Jesus's call to establish christian order etc etc

Their behaviour was clearly political.

The catholic church is a mafia organization since a very longtime.

They found patronage and faith in Spain & Portugal after the Protestant revolt and thus were the bosses of the Spanish/Portuguese invading armies.

No christian ever discussed things like you worship idols,we dont types.

I see statues of Jesus/Mary in most chapels.

Even the renaissance painters/sculptors revolve it around Jesus,his image,his beard etc etc.

Whereas i dont see any such thing about prophet muhammad.

But tell me honestly,we hindus dont convert anyone,we dont force anyone to worship or be like what we do.

why is it an issue for you?

why do u get hurt if i dont rever your religion and its concepts as much as u do?

PS: Muslims have massacred and converted millions under the sword for religious and political purposes and this continued as recent as the mall massacre in Nairobi.

@RangerPK it's useless arguing against @bronxbul she prescribes to the Hindutiva version of history and all of us bathed in the blood of Hindus and Sikhs in the East according to them. Don't waste your time, mate.

come on sir,what is hindutva version of history?

 

[RangerPK]

Let the IVC be pakistani but people can see for themselves and decide what is which.

You can fool too much when pakistanis tend to behave like Arabs more than pakistani.

Any Pakistani who opens his tab to drink water, is drinking water from the Indus Water System. Can same be said about Indians? No, you don't depend on Indus water System, however, Pakistan is Synonymous with Indus water system, because it is the skeleton of our country/people which it stands on.

Indians don't have much do to with Indus water system.

People in Pakistan live at the banks of Indus and beautify it. Indians live at the banks on ganga and make it in to broken sewerage. Then you become jealous of other people, like always, and try to take credit for their achievements. Its because you people hate yourselves and try to make fake made up stories to coup with uncomfortable reality. This is how you coup with your inferiority complex.

 

[bronxbull]

No, the Muslims did not commit genocide to kill all Polytheist, in fact, they tried to live side by side with them. Thus, polytheist are still in subcontinent today. It is because of this attitude of Muslims, that even the Europeans did not commit genocide on Polytheist to root them out of South Asia, because more or less, they were protected by the Muslim community.

Most of polytheism has been eradicated from this world ( Not counting Christians), either through force or education, but it still remains strong in South Asia....

Its because Muslims did not kill you, but rather choose to live with Polytheists side by side..
How ever Christians have a different approach to Polytheism, thus you don't find any polytheist in the new world North and South America.

neither could have commited mass murders because primarily,hey were always engaged in conflict,invasions were always happening from the north west as recent as 1890 and they had less time to go down south to central/south india more and indulge.

Secondly,they were not so sure of the converts they had,whether they became proper momin or just mercenaties being of circumstance under pressure of survival.

This was the situation since Ghori till Aurangazeb whose reign was totally broken by Shivaji.

The brits especially the East India co were not a religious lot after the famous Henry the 8th's divorce case and they ruled India professionally and used it purely for business.

Whereas you go to Goa,they did a proper inquisition of the Hindus there and indulged in total massacre.

regarding the muslim kings,they protected their kingdom and their sovereignity,not necessarily out of love but thats the goal of their life,to keep their power.

 

[Indischer]

No, the Muslims did not commit genocide to kill all Polytheist, in fact, they tried to live side by side with them. Thus, polytheist are still in subcontinent today. It is because of this attitude of Muslims, that even the Europeans did not commit genocide on Polytheist to root them out of South Asia, because more or less, they were protected by the Muslim community.

Most of polytheism has been eradicated from this world ( Not counting Christians), either through force or education, but it still remains strong in South Asia....

Its because Muslims did not kill you, but rather choose to live with Polytheists side by side..
How ever Christians have a different approach to Polytheism, thus you don't find any polytheist in the new world North and South America.

So, in your view, Polytheism is a disease that ought to be eradicated?? As long as we worship anything monotheistically, we're on the right track spiritually, is it? Laughable!

 

[bronxbull]

@bronxbull,

If we discuss history as history alone and do not convert it as a religious discussion, we can be more objective in arriving at appropriate conclusions.

All religions have been fighting with each other and it is not something new. It is just that when we can discern between the exaggerations and objective historical analyses, correct pictures may then emerge. But it is indeed a difficult undertaking.

Sir,

I have no judgement on anyone's spiritual pursuit or religious doctrine.

But if a muslim/anyone else kills some other person on religious basis and takes you into confidence,then the fault ends up being yours too.

 

[RangerPK]

I dont think the issue was polytheism at all.

Even though they described it in many ways like,

1.White Man's burden

2.Jesus's call to establish christian order etc etc

Their behaviour was clearly political.

The catholic church is a mafia organization since a very longtime.

They found patronage and faith in Spain & Portugal after the Protestant revolt and thus were the bosses of the Spanish/Portuguese invading armies.

No christian ever discussed things like you worship idols,we dont types.

I see statues of Jesus/Mary in most chapels.

Even the renaissance painters/sculptors revolve it around Jesus,his image,his beard etc etc.

Whereas i dont see any such thing about prophet muhammad.

But tell me honestly,we hindus dont convert anyone,we dont force anyone to worship or be like what we do.

why is it an issue for you?

why do u get hurt if i dont rever your religion and its concepts as much as u do?

PS: Muslims have massacred and converted millions under the sword for religious and political purposes and this continued as recent as the mall massacre in Nairobi.



come on sir,what is hindutva version of history?

Clearly you do not know much about Abrahimic religions. Do you want me to bluntly educate you? From Adam and Eve till now?

 

[bronxbull]

Any Pakistani who opens his tab to drink water, is drinking water from the Indus Water System. Can same be said about Indians? No, you don't depend on Indus water System, however, Pakistan is Synonymous with Indus water system, because it is the skeleton of our country/people which it stands on.

Indians don't have much do to with Indus water system.

People in Pakistan live at the banks of Indus and beautify it. Indians live at the banks on ganga and make it in to broken sewerage. Then you become jealous of other people, like always, and try to take credit for their achievements. Its because you people hate yourselves and try to make fake made up stories to coup with uncomfortable reality. This is how you coup with your inferiority complex.

I come from a family of scientists/philosophers/scholars.

Am i trying to claim ownership of the Indus here,the fact here is about history.

White Americans,most of them are immigrants/invaders from Europe and today they say America is our land.

why cant u do the same and say muhammad bin qasim is my ancestor and he invaded this land so that his progeny me,can enjoy this place.

it wont change anything.

Pakistanis were never Arabs and are not Arabs. Large majority of Pakistanis are the descendants of original inhabitants of this land. It at times surprises me as to why most Indians identify Pakistanis as Arabs sarcastically.

well,

That claim about the original inhabitants of this land cant be verified.

But if you say Muhammad bin qasim is my hero,then how can you do that when he forced your ancestors to die or convert.

Wouldn't it have been really nice if some sufi baba came and converted you instead of this invasion tale.

 

[jaibi]

The one where we're the villains of South Asia; murdering, raping and converting as we go. The myth that the rightests expound upon in your country.

come on sir,what is hindutva version of history?

 

[bronxbull]

Clearly you do not know much about Abrahimic religions. Do you want me to bluntly educate you? From Adam and Eve till now?

All that is irrelevant when only the Spanish and the Portuguese adhere to this view.

But sincerely i would like to hear what you have to say.

 

[RangerPK]

So, in your view, Polytheism is a disease that ought to be eradicated?? As long as we worship anything monotheistically, we're on the right track spiritually, is it? Laughable!

When we die, we would eventually be resurrected to life on the day of judgement. On that day, we would be questioned about our life. Then we would be sorted out either into Hell or Heaven, were we would eventually live for eternity.

ALL Polytheists would go to hell. Thus polytheism is a sure way to hell. Only monotheist, would have a CHANCE, to go to heaven.

This is the hard fact.

Christians approach to this "problem" was to kill all polytheists from this world, killing polytheist men women and their children, and destroying their culture.

This is what the Christians did, when they found Polytheists in the new world.

Muslims differ in this approach. We believe it is a futile exercise that does not work at all. Thus we see Muslims living side by side, with Hindus. and not eradicating them, like the Christians.

Also we believe, Christians have been misguided themselves, and their approach to tackling this polytheistic "problem". Is not something God commands.

It is God who Guides and Miss-guides. It is the WILL of God. All we can do is pray for ourselves. Pray to God to forgive us.Save us from hell fire and make us among those who enter Heaven.