Silent Soldier -Gen. Akhtar Abdul Rahman

[somebozo]

while he was the brain behinds the war its sickening to see hamid gul's "rent a mouth" chatter on almost every private channel about afghan-soviet war!

 

[niaz]

Hi,

If the ISI and the CIA favoured Hekmatyar,how come Ahmad Shah Massoud is widely known as the most effective resistance fighter?

I mean who favoured him.Please throw light on that.

Ahmad Shah Masoud was a Tajik and a part of the Burhanuddin Rabbani group of Afghan mujahideen. Rabbani group was also based in Peshawer along with other warlords. As such he was getting CIA aid thru Rabbani albeit not as much as Hikmatyaar and other Pushtoon groups. Additionally Ahmad Shah also exported minerals of the Badakshan area (mainly Lapis Lazuli) to supplement his income.

After the Soviet pull out, a compromise was reached with Nawaz Sharif as the arbitrator that initially Rabbani will be the President and after one year he will be replaced by the Hikmatyaar. However Rabbani refused to leave at the end of his term and this resulted in Gulbduddin Hikamtyaar bombarding Kabul with the help of ISI. Ahmad Shah was then Defense Minister of Afghanistan. It was at this time that India and Iran came into the picture with India providing help to Ahmed Shah. Panjshir (Five lions) valley is a long but narrow valley therefore easier to defend; therefore Ahmed Shah was able to hold out against the Soviets as well as the Taliban.

After the failure of Hikmatyaar, Pakistan and ISI switched their support to Taliban who were Pashtoons. This give rise to the Northern Alliance (Shia Hazaras, Uzbeks under Dostam & Tajiks under Ahmed Shah Masoud) who were pitched against Taliban.

Saudi Arabia, UAE and Pakistan supported Taliban whereas India, Iran and Tajikistan supported Northern Alliance.

Gen Babar, PPP Governor of then NWFP, JUI and ISI under Hamid Gul were primarily responsible for the polarization of Afghan polity as Pasthoon vs. non Pushtoon. This goes on to this day with all non Pashtoons staunchly anti Pakistani, when you add anti Taliban faction of the Afghan Pushtoons to it, you can understand the strong pro Indian and anti Pakistan feeling among the Afghanis. Thus, even though Pakistan suffered more than any other country for helping Afghans, we have very little in return from the Afghans. Remember Abdulla Abdulla, did you come across the such an anti Pakistani Foreign Minister ever? Not even in India!

We have heads of the ISI such as Gen Akhtar Abdur Rahman and Gen Hamid Gul to thank for this mess.

But Gen Akhtar Abdur Rahman is the victor of the Soviet Union and a savior of Pakistan.

 

[KS]

Gen Babar, PPP Governor of then NWFP, JUI and ISI under Hamid Gul were primarily responsible for the polarization of Afghan polity as Pasthoon vs. non Pushtoon. This goes on to this day with all non Pashtoons staunchly anti Pakistani, when you add anti Taliban faction of the Afghan Pushtoons to it, you can understand the strong pro Indian and anti Pakistan feeling among the Afghanis. Thus, even though Pakistan suffered more than any other country for helping Afghans, we have very little in return from the Afghans. Remember Abdulla Abdulla, did you come across the such an anti Pakistani Foreign Minister ever? Not even in India!

Actually isnt the Non-Pastuns who recognise the Durand Line and the Pashtuns dont recognise it .?

So you cannot say they are anti-pakistani completely.Atleast in this contentious issue they are Pro-Pakistan.

Anyway,thanks for the Post.

 

[niaz]

Always man behind gun is more important , Gen. Akhtar and his team defeated Russians and saved Pakistan from occupation .

Gen Zia and his team had a plan to liberate Kashmir but died in plan crash .Hard luck!

Men behing the gun were the CIA planners. The war was not forced upon us. We could have taken in the refugees but not trained and aided them to fight the Soviets.

The war was orchestrated by the US with active help from Pakistan. It was portrayed as fight for Islam against the infidels, thus volunteers from Islamic countries joined in. It was therefore a deliberate ploy to create a Vietnam for the Soviets Union. It succeeded and Soviet Union broke up.

Have you forgotten that Zia said "Peanuts" to the initial offer of $200-million by President Carter. Where was the worry about Russian occupation or conquest of Soviet Union at that time?

Zia agreed after the promised Aid was increased to $2-billion. Is fight for Islam for sale? Dont know why people have such short memories. But I am only a liberal fascist what do I know about saviours of Pakistan and mujahids of Islam?

No country can be occupied unless a significant portion of her population supports the occupiers. Let us not forget that it was Afghans who invited Soviets, there was no resistance to Soviet invasion until US and CIA came into the picture, actually Afghan Army was fighting along with the Soviets against the Mujahideen, just as Afghan Army is currently fighting Taliban.

The warm water port objective of the USSR was a myth created by the US during the cold war to get Pakistan to join SEATO & CENTO with the aim of encircling the USSR.
Ayub Khan joined to get military aid and modernize Pakistan’s’ armed forces. No matter how much you dislike the US, no one can deny that on the military front Pakistan owes hell of a lot to the US.

There have always been pro Soviet parties in Pakistan. NAP (now ANP) and Bacha Khan was one. I have heard Wali Khan calling Afghan refugees as Afghan Baghorey (those who run away). Baluchistan also always had anti Pakistan/ pro Independent element so did the Sindhis.

Nawab Akbar Bugti, even called Shaheed by the anti Musharraf media, was himself a gun runner and supported. Baluch armed insurrection. Bugti was tried by a military tribunal in 1960. Rebellion by Khan of Kalat, Maris and the Mengals is well-known. Any occupation of a foreign power such as USSR would therefore have been primarily at the invitation of separatist elements with Pakistan. Thus Soviets could only occupy parts of Pakistan if NWFP and Baluchistan revolted.

Soviet occupation of Afghanistan generated so much anti Soviet feeling among the Pushtoon belt along the NWFP/Baluchistan border and any further adventure by USSR was highly unlikely n the near future.

Regarding the bigot Zia /ISI scheming to liberate Kashmir? Dream on. You saw what happened at Kargil when Nawaz Sharif had to go begging to the US to get Pakistan out of the mess.

Every one of my compatriots must understand that Pakistan cannot/ should not entertain another military venture against India to liberate Kashmir. Kashmir problem can only be resolved thru negotiations or thru struggle by the Kashmiris themselves without any active help from Pakistan military.

Pakistan’s economy cannot sustain full scale war for more than a couple of weeks. We already lost East Pakistan, a future war with India; as long as Pakistan’s economy remains weak; can have only two results. Either destruction of major part of Pakistan & India thru a nuclear exchange or if Pakistani leaders lose their bottle, loss of the Azad Kashmir. Therefore our priority must be to strengthen our economy so that we can fight a protracted war without relying on the third party and to strengthen our Armed Forces so that any adventure by India is judged too costly and thus not undertaken at all.

But we should not contemplate another Kargil.

 

[waraich66]

Men behing the gun were the CIA planners. The war was not forced upon us. We could have taken in the refugees but not trained and aided them to fight the Soviets.

The war was orchestrated by the US with active help from Pakistan. It was portrayed as fight for Islam against the infidels, thus volunteers from Islamic countries joined in. It was therefore a deliberate ploy to create a Vietnam for the Soviets Union. It succeeded and Soviet Union broke up.

Have you forgotten that Zia said "Peanuts" to the initial offer of $200-million by President Carter. Where was the worry about Russian occupation or conquest of Soviet Union at that time?

Zia agreed after the promised Aid was increased to $2-billion. Is fight for Islam for sale? Dont know why people have such short memories. But I am only a liberal fascist what do I know about saviours of Pakistan and mujahids of Islam?

No country can be occupied unless a significant portion of her population supports the occupiers. Let us not forget that it was Afghans who invited Soviets, there was no resistance to Soviet invasion until US and CIA came into the picture, actually Afghan Army was fighting along with the Soviets against the Mujahideen, just as Afghan Army is currently fighting Taliban.

The warm water port objective of the USSR was a myth created by the US during the cold war to get Pakistan to join SEATO & CENTO with the aim of encircling the USSR.
Ayub Khan joined to get military aid and modernize Pakistan’s’ armed forces. No matter how much you dislike the US, no one can deny that on the military front Pakistan owes hell of a lot to the US.

There have always been pro Soviet parties in Pakistan. NAP (now ANP) and Bacha Khan was one. I have heard Wali Khan calling Afghan refugees as Afghan Baghorey (those who run away). Baluchistan also always had anti Pakistan/ pro Independent element so did the Sindhis.

Nawab Akbar Bugti, even called Shaheed by the anti Musharraf media, was himself a gun runner and supported. Baluch armed insurrection. Bugti was tried by a military tribunal in 1960. Rebellion by Khan of Kalat, Maris and the Mengals is well-known. Any occupation of a foreign power such as USSR would therefore have been primarily at the invitation of separatist elements with Pakistan. Thus Soviets could only occupy parts of Pakistan if NWFP and Baluchistan revolted.

Soviet occupation of Afghanistan generated so much anti Soviet feeling among the Pushtoon belt along the NWFP/Baluchistan border and any further adventure by USSR was highly unlikely n the near future.

Please dont twist our golden history of war and victory against Russians, No doubt US provide the miltery aid but the Gen Akhtar Gurrilla war strategy played key role in victory.Afghanistan was battle field but it was war of Pakistan.

Regarding the bigot Zia /ISI scheming to liberate Kashmir? Dream on. You saw what happened at Kargil when Nawaz Sharif had to go begging to the US to get Pakistan out of the mess.

Gen Zia's plan was to train and support Sikh and Kashmiri mujahdeen for long term Gurrilla war with India for liberation of khalistan and kashmir. Remember India could not continue their occupation in Kashmir against long term gurrilla war.

Every one of my compatriots must understand that Pakistan cannot/ should not entertain another military venture against India to liberate Kashmir. Kashmir problem can only be resolved thru negotiations or thru struggle by the Kashmiris themselves without any active help from Pakistan military.

Pakistan’s economy cannot sustain full scale war for more than a couple of weeks. We already lost East Pakistan, a future war with India; as long as Pakistan’s economy remains weak; can have only two results. Either destruction of major part of Pakistan & India thru a nuclear exchange or if Pakistani leaders lose their bottle, loss of the Azad Kashmir. Therefore our priority must be to strengthen our economy so that we can fight a protracted war without relying on the third party and to strengthen our Armed Forces so that any adventure by India is judged too costly and thus not undertaken at all.

But we should not contemplate another Kargil.

Dont forget Kashmir is our Shahrag, we have to liberate it for servival of Pakistan at any cost.India will stop your all rivers if Kashmir was not liberated.Kashmiris and Pakistanis should prepare them for long term independence struggle.

 

[somebozo]

Post war, people are getting sold to indian propoganda of portraying soviet union as the champion of humanity and most peaceful country of Asia. Whereas in fact soviet union was such a nuisance their their own best ally India at one point had to seek US millitary aid against communism. Soviet union did what hitler did. Invade and occupy. And because they killed the key element of human society that is economy and commerce the people really hated them but few leaders were ready to sell for personal ego satisfaction!

 

[GOD OF WAR]

it is awell established and doucumented fact, that all intellgence operations were planned by the ISI. this was one of the conditions set by the Pakistanis, when the US jumped in the wagon to obliterate the russian bear.

US accounts state that Gen Akhtar was extremely astute and shrewd spy who was able to fog CIA, Mossad and Russian plans in more than one instances.

He was able to convince Israel to give the mujaideens the AK47 rifles, o which the Israelis had a huge cache of.

please remember that the US didt enter this war actively till the mid 80s, at which time only Pakistan was supporting the Afghan mujahideens along with littlehelp from the saudis.

the late GenAkhtar and Gen Zia were very good at duping the CIA which ultimately alo led to their deaths.

CIA,KGB and MOSSAD, all were partners in their assasiations.

Im not a fan of Zia or Akhtar, as they did make a **** load of money, but they were indeed instrumetal in the victory of the afghan mujahideen and we cannot steal it away from them.

 

[GOD OF WAR]

The warm water port objective of the USSR was a myth created by the US during the cold war to get Pakistan to join SEATO & CENTO with the aim of encircling the USSR.

Sir, your assertions are not true, as the Russian premiers (either Mendedev or Putin) recently said that Russia has had dreams of gaining access to Pakistan's warm water ports since Catherine the great was their queen


There have always been pro Soviet parties in Pakistan. NAP (now ANP) and Bacha Khan was one. I have heard Wali Khan calling Afghan refugees as Afghan Baghorey (those who run away). Baluchistan also always had anti Pakistan/ pro Independent element so did the Sindhis.

These seperatist movements dont mean anything on their own, they are too minuscule in terms of percentage of people who suport such movements. None of the seperatists have ever enjoyed popularity in numbers, leave alone a chance to rule. ANP has got this chance as this whole government is 'seleted' not elected to power. they are still proponents of Pashputinstan but they will never succeed


Regarding the bigot Zia /ISI scheming to liberate Kashmir? Dream on. You saw what happened at Kargil when Nawaz Sharif had to go begging to the US to get Pakistan out of the mess.


sir, India was the 1st to create hue and cry over kargil. Indians asked the UN and the US to intervene. Nawaz was CALLED by the US and threatened to back off, and Nawaz being an established coward, did exactly so. Pakistan army had the vantage point in Kargil and were butchering the Indian Army in huge numbers. Kargil was more political than martial

Every one of my compatriots must understand that Pakistan cannot/ should not entertain another military venture against India to liberate Kashmir. Kashmir problem can only be resolved thru negotiations or thru struggle by the Kashmiris themselves without any active help from Pakistan military.

Ultimately the Kashmir issue is headed towards a military stand off, whether some one likes it or not, what will be the outcome of such a war is an open debate. needless to say, War is always sad, but cannot be avoided

 

[T-Faz]

it is awell established and doucumented fact, that all intellgence operations were planned by the ISI. this was one of the conditions set by the Pakistanis, when the US jumped in the wagon to obliterate the russian bear.

Operation cyclone was a CIA plan and it was developed in USA, not Pakistan. ISI was a part collaborator and was the main tool for the plan.

US accounts state that Gen Akhtar was extremely astute and shrewd spy who was able to fog CIA, Mossad and Russian plans in more than one instances.

So astute that the Pak Army itself never promoted him, it was only Zia who did so after he conveyed to Zia that other army officials were plotting to overthrow Zia and take over.

He was able to convince Israel to give the mujaideens the AK47 rifles, o which the Israelis had a huge cache of.

Look up Charlie Wilson.

please remember that the US didt enter this war actively till the mid 80s, at which time only Pakistan was supporting the Afghan mujahideens along with littlehelp from the saudis.

Are you sure, you better check your sources.

1978: CIA Begins Covert Action in Afghanistan The CIA begins covert action against the Communist government in Afghanistan, which is closely tied to the Soviet Union. Some time this year, the CIA begins training militants in Pakistan and beaming radio propaganda into Afghanistan. By April 1979, US officials are meeting with opponents of the Afghan government to determine their needs. [Blum, 1995, pp. 344] Robert Gates, who will become CIA Director in the early 1990s, will later recall that in a meeting on March 30, 1979, Under Secretary of Defense Walter Slocumbe wonders aloud whether there is “value in keeping the Afghan insurgency going, ‘sucking the Soviets into a Vietnamese quagmire.’” [Gates, 1996, pp. 145] In March 1979, there is a major revolt in Herat province, and in June and August there are large scale army mutinies. [Cooley, 2002, pp. 5] President Carter will formally approve covert aid to opponents of the government in July (see July 3, 1979), which will result in a Russian invasion in December (see December 8, 1979).

the late GenAkhtar and Gen Zia were very good at duping the CIA which ultimately alo led to their deaths.

So good that they plunged Pakistan into an era of darkness and could not save themselves from their high profile assasination. CIA did not kill them, it was our very generals who grew sick and tired of what these two were up to.

CIA,KGB and MOSSAD, all were partners in their assasiations.

No, they weren't. It was a Pakistani general who wanted to pursue a different strategy and benefitted from the demise of these two.

Im not a fan of Zia or Akhtar, as they did make a **** load of money, but they were indeed instrumetal in the victory of the afghan mujahideen and we cannot steal it away from them.

Partly, but do not overlook William Casey, Charlie Wilson, Reagan, Brezinski, the Mujahideen and many others.

 

[anyuta34i]

stress 8 relievers are way

 

[SekrutYakhni]

"It was portrayed as fight for Islam against the infidels, thus volunteers from Islamic countries joined in. It was therefore a deliberate ploy to create a Vietnam for the Soviets Union."

I could not agree more!!!!!!
You are absolutely on the spot.

 

[SekrutYakhni]

"The warm water port objective of the USSR was a myth created by the US during the cold war to get Pakistan to join SEATO & CENTO with the aim of encircling the USSR."

I asked this from my Russian friends and they said the same thing...

 

[SekrutYakhni]

"Therefore our priority must be to strengthen our economy so that we can fight a protracted war without relying on the third party and to strengthen our Armed Forces so that any adventure by India is judged too costly and thus not undertaken at all."

Agreed Niaz.

I really liked your post.

 

[DV RULES]

Men behing the gun were the CIA planners. The war was not forced upon us. We could have taken in the refugees but not trained and aided them to fight the Soviets.

The war was orchestrated by the US with active help from Pakistan. It was portrayed as fight for Islam against the infidels, thus volunteers from Islamic countries joined in. It was therefore a deliberate ploy to create a Vietnam for the Soviets Union. It succeeded and Soviet Union broke up.

Have you forgotten that Zia said "Peanuts" to the initial offer of $200-million by President Carter. Where was the worry about Russian occupation or conquest of Soviet Union at that time?

Zia agreed after the promised Aid was increased to $2-billion. Is fight for Islam for sale? Dont know why people have such short memories. But I am only a liberal fascist what do I know about saviours of Pakistan and mujahids of Islam?

No country can be occupied unless a significant portion of her population supports the occupiers. Let us not forget that it was Afghans who invited Soviets, there was no resistance to Soviet invasion until US and CIA came into the picture, actually Afghan Army was fighting along with the Soviets against the Mujahideen, just as Afghan Army is currently fighting Taliban.

In fact chief of 1st directorate (Foreign intelligence) of KGB Vladimir Kruchkov accepted that 1978 in Afghanistan took place only presidential revolution but not national revolution.

This was mistake taken by KGB because they didn’t inform the president Daud about conspiracy of Xalq against his presidency and if that time they informed on time then there will not be revolution or after that Afghan war.

It was just a political fight between Xalq (Muhammad Taraq) & Parcham ( Babrak Karmal ), where KGB supported Parcham but diplomatic mission in Afghanistan and adviser to Chief of polical authority of Afghanistan army Russian General Zaplatin supports Xalq, Hifizul Ammen was the successor of Taraq, in reality CIA tried many times through some Afghan ministers to bring Russian army to step in the situations in Hirat & in western boundries (Pakistan) where Afghan army took operation against anti socialism movements but General Zaplatin never accepted these ideas.

These were double agents of KGB worked in Afghanistan who forced their main headquarter to send army to remove President Ameen and give chair to Kramel (exiled in Czech republic) where general Zaplatin opposed this decision even in Moscow where 12th December 1979 order P 176/125 “PERMISSION TO ENTER RUSSIAN ARMY IN AFGHANISTAN TO REMOVE PRESIDENT AMEEN)was signed after all US embassy in Moscow sent telegram to his foreign office “today USSR bought his Vietnam”

So KGB director was trapped by its own agents and they bring unforgettable history to Russian Federation.

I am agree with you that Zia put Jihad for sale to US who were crazy at that time only to give counter hit to USSR for Vietnam & our generals made their offer to accept that was more than 2 billion $, it was not our fight but history repeats itself in our situation and it repeated after 20 years when Mr. Musharaf sold PA in unknown figure of $ in WOT. We still suffered and don’t know how more.

Why Kargil war? Why not Siachin war they did it was more logical than Kargil!

The warm water port objective of the USSR was a myth created by the US during the cold war to get Pakistan to join SEATO & CENTO with the aim of encircling the USSR.

Warm water objective was real where Andropov Head of KGB pointing out Peshawar & Karachi on map & wished to control where they ever tried to destabilize Baluchistan on request of some Afghan nationalist leaders present in Afghan government & generals at that time.

Ayub Khan joined to get military aid and modernize Pakistan’s’ armed forces. No matter how much you dislike the US, no one can deny that on the military front Pakistan owes hell of a lot to the US.

There have always been pro Soviet parties in Pakistan. NAP (now ANP) and Bacha Khan was one. I have heard Wali Khan calling Afghan refugees as Afghan Baghorey (those who run away). Baluchistan also always had anti Pakistan/ pro Independent element so did the Sindhis.

USSR promoted pro soviet parties and movements in closed countries to its boundary & there are elements who still on pay scales working in NWFP, Baluchistan against Pakistan.

Nawab Akbar Bugti, even called Shaheed by the anti Musharraf media, was himself a gun runner and supported. Baluch armed insurrection. Bugti was tried by a military tribunal in 1960. Rebellion by Khan of Kalat, Maris and the Mengals is well-known. Any occupation of a foreign power such as USSR would therefore have been primarily at the invitation of separatist elements with Pakistan. Thus Soviets could only occupy parts of Pakistan if NWFP and Baluchistan revolted.

Soviet occupation of Afghanistan generated so much anti Soviet feeling among the Pushtoon belt along the NWFP/Baluchistan border and any further adventure by USSR was highly unlikely n the near future.

Regarding the bigot Zia /ISI scheming to liberate Kashmir? Dream on. You saw what happened at Kargil when Nawaz Sharif had to go begging to the US to get Pakistan out of the mess.

There was so deference between Zia/ISI scheming & Musharaf/ISI scheming to liberate Kashmir, we can’t make comparison their thinking. Musharaf never was a good professional general where his decision didn’t show the PA capabilities. You are underestimating PA. That was time when we could focus to get back Siachin but we lost that chance and know there is only one option straight and all.

Every one of my compatriots must understand that Pakistan cannot/ should not entertain another military venture against India to liberate Kashmir. Kashmir problem can only be resolved thru negotiations or thru struggle by the Kashmiris themselves without any active help from Pakistan military.

Tell me you are talking about negotiations as many others are also like that: What we got from negotiations from 1948?
Peoples who talking about negotiations or resolutions I doesn’t count them as problem solving but hanging problems, what you get from negotiations dead bodies of more than 120 000 Kashmiries, killing, raps, of innocents? While you are negotiate since 63 years you know what happened there? Pakistan military help is necessary if not today than tomorrow, just stop negotiate come to a decision.

Pakistan’s economy cannot sustain full scale war for more than a couple of weeks. We already lost East Pakistan, a future war with India; as long as Pakistan’s economy remains weak; can have only two results. Either destruction of major part of Pakistan & India thru a nuclear exchange or if Pakistani leaders lose their bottle, loss of the Azad Kashmir. Therefore our priority must be to strengthen our economy so that we can fight a protracted war without relying on the third party and to strengthen our Armed Forces so that any adventure by India is judged too costly and thus not undertaken at all.

Pakistan economy was weak in 1965, 1971, 1998, 1999, 2002, 2004, 2008 then what next? Have we changed something? First solve your initial problem then think about progress & I am sure without getting Kashmir we can’t make any milestone in our economy.

But we should not contemplate another Kargil.

But we should contemplate another Siachin & J&K.

 

[waraich66]

In fact chief of 1st directorate (Foreign intelligence) of KGB Vladimir Kruchkov accepted that 1978 in Afghanistan took place only presidential revolution but not national revolution.

This was mistake taken by KGB because they didn’t inform the president Daud about conspiracy of Xalq against his presidency and if that time they informed on time then there will not be revolution or after that Afghan war.

It was just a political fight between Xalq (Muhammad Taraq) & Parcham ( Babrak Karmal ), where KGB supported Parcham but diplomatic mission in Afghanistan and adviser to Chief of polical authority of Afghanistan army Russian General Zaplatin supports Xalq, Hifizul Ammen was the successor of Taraq, in reality CIA tried many times through some Afghan ministers to bring Russian army to step in the situations in Hirat & in western boundries (Pakistan) where Afghan army took operation against anti socialism movements but General Zaplatin never accepted these ideas.

These were double agents of KGB worked in Afghanistan who forced their main headquarter to send army to remove President Ameen and give chair to Kramel (exiled in Czech republic) where general Zaplatin opposed this decision even in Moscow where 12th December 1979 order P 176/125 “PERMISSION TO ENTER RUSSIAN ARMY IN AFGHANISTAN TO REMOVE PRESIDENT AMEEN)was signed after all US embassy in Moscow sent telegram to his foreign office “today USSR bought his Vietnam”

So KGB director was trapped by its own agents and they bring unforgettable history to Russian Federation.

I am agree with you that Zia put Jihad for sale to US who were crazy at that time only to give counter hit to USSR for Vietnam & our generals made their offer to accept that was more than 2 billion $, it was not our fight but history repeats itself in our situation and it repeated after 20 years when Mr. Musharaf sold PA in unknown figure of $ in WOT. We still suffered and don’t know how more.

Why Kargil war? Why not Siachin war they did it was more logical than Kargil!




Warm water objective was real where Andropov Head of KGB pointing out Peshawar & Karachi on map & wished to control where they ever tried to destabilize Baluchistan on request of some Afghan nationalist leaders present in Afghan government & generals at that time.





USSR promoted pro soviet parties and movements in closed countries to its boundary & there are elements who still on pay scales working in NWFP, Baluchistan against Pakistan.





There was so deference between Zia/ISI scheming & Musharaf/ISI scheming to liberate Kashmir, we can’t make comparison their thinking. Musharaf never was a good professional general where his decision didn’t show the PA capabilities. You are underestimating PA. That was time when we could focus to get back Siachin but we lost that chance and know there is only one option straight and all.




Tell me you are talking about negotiations as many others are also like that: What we got from negotiations from 1948?
Peoples who talking about negotiations or resolutions I doesn’t count them as problem solving but hanging problems, what you get from negotiations dead bodies of more than 120 000 Kashmiries, killing, raps, of innocents? While you are negotiate since 63 years you know what happened there? Pakistan military help is necessary if not today than tomorrow, just stop negotiate come to a decision.





Pakistan economy was weak in 1965, 1971, 1998, 1999, 2002, 2004, 2008 then what next? Have we changed something? First solve your initial problem then think about progress & I am sure without getting Kashmir we can’t make any milestone in our economy.




But we should contemplate another Siachin & J&K.

Thank you for realistic analysis , good food for think tankers