Sikh To Death, a War nerd's tribute to Sikh warriors

[anurag_singh]

I am also a proud Rajput but an educated one (double MS EM, MS CS) and I am much more interested in my present and future than keeping myself happy from what our ancestors did and did not do.

Indian origin or Pakistani origin?

 

[Pride]

waheguru jee ka khalsa waheguru jee kee fateh,

To all the posters,,,

apologies if it might hurt or something wrong is posted..

The concept of sikhism and guru gobind singh jee is very different from we all are looking in to here. Most of here would have not read Guru Granth Saheb jee or the sikh history in its totality.
Guru Gobind Singh jee or any other gurus never asked anyone to join there army or follow them.

There are different instances in their life where people even left the gurus in mid battle and came back but for that history should be read in totality and with all knowledge not in bit of scribs from here or there.

One guy posted that Guru Gobind Singh jee said that he was descendent of Luv/Kush,,,, well check and post your sources here...dont speak of things heard of or without proper knowledge... where did Luv/Kush come from? or their forefathers come from???? no offence... all came from same GOD..

Then there is other guy who says every elderly child of hindu was made sikh to fight mughals......Sir this is very absurd or self made RSS/BJP fobia.....if u read sikh history the first wars of guru gobind singh jee were with the hill raja of kashmir and himachal of that time who could not bear the popularity or growing support of guru sahebs and felt insecured and attached them... its only about kings and not general public...guru saheb fought against tyranny be it mughals, hindus or anyone...regarding elder child being made a sikh i dont believe this coz gurus never asked anyone to become a sikh, allthose who wanted to become they did,,, again appreciated if a elderly child become sikh,, well there would be something that he can only become sikh and fight?? sry this might have hurt but please stop posting superiority phobia...

A few things that all gurus have told which are more important then other...

1) First and the most important a Sikh is a spiritual/religious person/sant who longs from oneness with god as guided by Guru saheban.

2) He does not discard social life (marraige, kids.....) for a life in jungle/mountain or a solitary life and lives an honest life of truthful earnings, share your earnings with needy and always remembering god in his heart.

3) He sees all people irrespective of cast, creed, colour, religion as one and children of same god.

4) He fights tyranny, oppression, injustice not only Sikhs but for whole mankind.. (For any Sikhs, Hindus, Muslims, Christians, white, black, brown....)

5) The sword/gun or any weapon is always kept with us as said taiyar bar taiyar always and taken as a last resort when all other means have failed to solve the issue.

Most important is first point and without that the guy is not even Sikh but in guise of a Sikh.

bhul chuk maaf...

waheguru jee ka khalsa waheguru jee kee fateh

Ranveer, As I have made that comment hence I request you to read autobiography of Guru Gobind Singh ji "The Bachittar Natak". or in short you can find that in following link:-
The Supreme Sacrifice of Guru Tegh Bahadur - Ancestry, birth and childhood

There is no RSS/BJP theories involved in this the only theory which can harm strong Hindu-Sikh bond is only Congress theory of '84 nothing else.

Regarding elder son to Khalsa theory. No one is claiming here that Guruji asked Hindus to join Khalsa panth the point is Guruji actually started to save Hindus from opressions of Mughal and hence Hindu's elder son to Khalsa panth started and once a Khalsa always a Khalsa. I have also posted earlier that not all Sikhs were Khalsa but all Hindus under the guidance of Guruji were Khalsa. Please read:-
Khalsa Panth, Khalsa Sikh, Sikh Khalsa Panth, Guru Gobind Singh Khalsa, Khalsa of Guru Gobind Singh

 

[Pride]

Dear Sir,

I hope my post addressed the points you made so eloquently and skilfully. Unfortunately, I noticed your post only after posting my own, otherwise I would have configured it around your observations more closely.

Regards,

JS, Thanks for your excellent post as you mentioned earlier and it is my pleasure to have such discussion with you.

 

[RobbieS]

I have also posted earlier that not all Sikhs were Khalsa but all Hindus under the guidance of Guruji were Khalsa.

Correction, by your arguments - All elder sons of Hindus were Khalsa. Once they became baptized they automatically became a Sikh. You cant be a Hindu Khalsa.

 

[Mirza Jatt]

As a sikh many things I liked in the article and there were many which I didnt.

all in all an entertaining article...I would rather suggest people who all are realy interested in knowing about the religion, simply go to a beter website or get a book from a store on sikhism, to know the real facts and especially the sacrifices that the sikhs have made....you'll be thrilled.

 

[Pride]

Correction, by your arguments - All elder sons of Hindus were Khalsa. Once they became baptized they automatically became a Sikh. You cant be a Hindu Khalsa.

True, once they are baptized they were Khalsa.. There is nothing Hindu Khalsa exist and I didn't mention it... I was just saggregating that even in Sikhs there were many who were simple Nirmal panthi and not Khalsa panthi but Hindus who accepted Khalsa by their soul were all Khalsa.

 

[VAJRA]

Well, brahmins have been a very well educated family in Hindu mythology, and my friend, in past, this cast system had developed to divide the responsibilities(work ) of people like, brahmins, the kshatriye and so on..it was based on the work being done by a particular individual not on some fixed groupism..I will give you an example..Maharishi Vishwamitra, in his early days was a KShatriya ruler of his Kingdom, maharishi valmiki was a thief and Lord Parashuram, even born to a brahmin rishi Parashar was a famous Warrior...
well agree, we are first Indian, but second nothing...
I dont believe in religions and castes,
thanx!

Buddy the concept of the caste system as we know it is nothing more than propaganda by the brahmins.

I am my self a Hindu Kshatriya but not a Brahmin. I agree there was an overlap in brahmins and kshatriyas and not all Kshatriyas were brahmins. As for the vayshyas and shudras - all these divisions as we know from derogatory stand point are culminated by the Brahmins and not the god himself rather god himself as per hindu mythology does not look down upon any one caste but rather explains this system as a concept of Karma -If you were a Shudra and did some good deeds then within the Human form you move to the Vayshya category and if you continue onwards with the same winning streak you ultimately reach the Brahmin stage where you are chosen for god's work not his "word" and if you are a Brahmin and go on to do bad deeds, then move down the order and away from god. It's just a cycle.

Now don't ask me what happens if you are shudra and do bad deeds - To that my answer would be just count the yonis apart from the human form and you will understand yourself the meaning of Karma and how it affects your life and afterlife.

 

[RobbieS]

True, once they are baptized they were Khalsa.. There is nothing Hindu Khalsa exist and I didn't mention it... I was just saggregating that even in Sikhs there were many who were simple Nirmal panthi and not Khalsa panthi but Hindus who accepted Khalsa by their soul were all Khalsa.

We dont have any data or sources to prove that all Hindus embraced Sikhism in its Khalsa form. There could have been many who were just Sehaj-dhari.

 

[Pride]

We dont have any data or sources to prove that all Hindus embraced Sikhism in its Khalsa form. There could have been many who were just Sehaj-dhari.

RobbieS, I think while both of us agree 100% with each other the meaning of sentences are coming as different. The discussion was earlier for Khalsa army against Mughals and hence I intentionally dropped that part of discussion where many Hindus disciples of Guru Nanak Sahib and subsequent gurus. I had only problem where people add their POV for superiority theories otherwise we all are same. Lets call it off here as we both are on same page.

 

[Pride]

Buddy the concept of the caste system as we know it is nothing more than propaganda by the brahmins.

I am my self a Hindu Kshatriya but not a Brahmin. I agree there was an overlap in brahmins and kshatriyas and not all Kshatriyas were brahmins. As for the vayshyas and shudras - all these divisions as we know from derogatory stand point are culminated by the Brahmins and not the god himself rather god himself as per hindu mythology does not look down upon any one caste but rather explains this system as a concept of Karma -If you were a Shudra and did some good deeds then within the Human form you move to the Vayshya category and if you continue onwards with the same winning streak you ultimately reach the Brahmin stage where you are chosen for god's work not his "word" and if you are a Brahmin and go on to do bad deeds, then move down the order and away from god. It's just a cycle.

Now don't ask me what happens if you are shudra and do bad deeds - To that my answer would be just count the yonis apart from the human form and you will understand yourself the meaning of Karma and how it affects your life and afterlife.

Buddy, Let me clarify few points to you. First of all caste system were not for categorizing people based on birth but a social system where people according to their capability assigned work. The original system was for betterment of society as intelligent & studious people will become Brahmin, powerful people become Khsatriya, people with selling & trade mind become Vaishya and finally people with less capability got the smaller work. This system does not have anything derogatery as this was not birth dependent. This system is nonetheless same as current system in an organisation like CEO on top and fourth grade employee for lower work.

In the religious scripture Mahabharata, Yudhisthira, is questioned by Yama in the form of a Yaksha, about what makes one a Brahmin. Yudhisthira, without hesitation, said that it is conduct alone that makes one a Brahmin.

one more point to add that derogatory word "Untouchable" in Hindus was not earlier but only a scenario where Brahmin does not want to get touched by Shudra because of the type of work performed like cleaning after taking bath and getting ready for prayer. This has been again moulded.

Alas, the problem was, similar to other great rituals these system has been miss-utilized for one's benefit as no king wants to leave his kingdom for some one else other than his family and Brahmin's dont want to leave their family's respect for someone else or Vaishya dont want to assign his bussiness to other. Hence No blame can alone be given to Brahmins on this. Brahmin's are the biggest culprit because they were most intellectual among them and it was their responsibility to carry on this system properly.

 

[VAJRA]

Buddy, Let me clarify few points to you. First of all caste system were not for categorizing people based on birth but a social system where people according to their capability assigned work. The original system was for betterment of society as intelligent & studious people will become Brahmin, powerful people become Khsatriya, people with selling & trade mind become Vaishya and finally people with less capability got the smaller work. This system does not have anything derogatery as this was not birth dependent. This system is nonetheless same as current system in an organisation like CEO on top and fourth grade employee for lower work.

In the religious scripture Mahabharata, Yudhisthira, is questioned by Yama in the form of a Yaksha, about what makes one a Brahmin. Yudhisthira, without hesitation, said that it is conduct alone that makes one a Brahmin.

one more point to add that derogatory word "Untouchable" in Hindus was not earlier but only a scenario where Brahmin does not want to get touched by Shudra because of the type of work performed like cleaning after taking bath and getting ready for prayer. This has been again moulded.

Alas, the problem was, similar to other great rituals these system has been miss-utilized for one's benefit as no king wants to leave his kingdom for some one else other than his family and Brahmin's dont want to leave their family's respect for someone else or Vaishya dont want to assign his bussiness to other. Hence No blame can alone be given to Brahmins on this. Brahmin's are the biggest culprit because they were most intellectual among them and it was their responsibility to carry on this system properly.

To the bold part - I tried to explain it from the Karma part

As for the "bold part" - who was Eklavya?

The point comes down to one thing - The brahmins tried to be the mouthpiece of GOD, while GOD chose them only to carry out his work - which is where some of them screwed up.

I am taking a completely different approach to explain this and read between the lines of the excerpt from the Mahabhrata that you posted - ONE BECOMES BRAHMIN FROM HIS CONDUCT - I.E. GOOD KARMA and THEREFORE YOU ARE CHOSEN TO CARRY OUT GODS WORK!

No offence, just sharing what I know about this and how I perceive the system.

 

[RobbieS]

RobbieS, I think while both of us agree 100% with each other the meaning of sentences are coming as different. The discussion was earlier for Khalsa army against Mughals and hence I intentionally dropped that part of discussion where many Hindus disciples of Guru Nanak Sahib and subsequent gurus. I had only problem where people add their POV for superiority theories otherwise we all are same. Lets call it off here as we both are on same page.

No problemos.

 

[Pride]

To the bold part - I tried to explain it from the Karma part

As for the "bold part" - who was Eklavya?

The point comes down to one thing - The brahmins tried to be the mouthpiece of GOD, while GOD chose them only to carry out his work - which is where some of them screwed up.

I am taking a completely different approach to explain this and read between the lines of the excerpt from the Mahabhrata that you posted - ONE BECOMES BRAHMIN FROM HIS CONDUCT - I.E. GOOD KARMA and THEREFORE YOU ARE CHOSEN TO CARRY OUT GODS WORK!

No offence, just sharing what I know about this and how I perceive the system.

Neither I consider Brahmin as God's mouth and feel that Brahmins were all part of social system and never achieved Pop's status.

There were only few brahmin used all this for their profit otherwise Brahmin in most cases were supposed to ask for "Bhiksha" and live miserably. The Karma part was twisted to attach the same as "reincarnation". It means if I have done good deeds as Shudras in previous life then I will become Brahmin in next life not in the same one.
But there are spiritiual theories attached to it regarding achieveing highest realm of in soul world which is above to this dharma-Varna theory which I dont want to discuss that here.

 

[VAJRA]

Neither I consider Brahmin as God's mouth and feel that Brahmins were all part of social system and never achieved Pop's status.

There were only few brahmin used all this for their profit otherwise Brahmin in most cases were supposed to ask for "Bhiksha" and live miserably. The Karma part was twisted to attach the same as "reincarnation". It means if I have done good deeds as Shudras in previous life then I will become Brahmin in next life not in the same one.
But there are spiritiual theories attached to it regarding achieveing highest realm of in soul world which is above to this dharma-Varna theory which I dont want to discuss that here.

I did not quite follow you but yeah the theory of Karma is that of cycles and you break the cycle only when you achieve Moksha!

And Moksha is received only by good deeds so the system is progressive based on one's deeds in their lives.

 

[Pride]

I did not quite follow you but yeah the theory of Karma is that of cycles and you break the cycle only when you achieve Moksha!

And Moksha is received only by good deeds so the system is progressive based on one's deeds in their lives.

Yes in pretty simple words, ok let me quickly note down some spiritual aspects.

We all are souls and part of soul world which is in 7 realms. In normal words, The 6th and 7th layer is treated as Heaven while 1-3 are considered as hell.

These realms are again having categories from 0-9. Normally a soul starts its life from 5th realm and 7th layer. Every soul wants to reach to 7th realms and that can be done in either ways, 1st perform in soul-world or 2nd go to 'KarmaBhoomi' i.e. earth. Here your subconsiounces mid have everything but that is locked. Now How you perform here in earth with all good and bad deeds decides which realm and layer will be assigned to you. This is what Karma is all about. The Karmic theory does not give one's profit for a small or materialistic thing like Brahmins or Shudras. Once Soul reaches to seventh realm then they do not need to come to earth which is considered as "Moksha".