Siachen was accepted as Indian Territory in 1949!

[Secur]

Crap article though ! The Govt of India accepted J&K as a disputed territory the moment Nehru went running to the UN ... If the " Instrument of Accession " was indeed considered credible enough , why did Indian Govt promised plebiscite to the Kashmiri people ?

Hence collapses the very base of the argument the article is build upon ...

Based on this, we obtained control of several hundred square miles of State territory where we were not in position on the date of the ceasefire.”

I cant stop laughing ... Care to enlighten us , what fictional gains were made by your forces right before or on the date of ceasefire ? ... I know the history of one strategically important pass though which Pakistanis captured right before the ceasefire came into effect - Google " Haji Pir "

 

[Screambowl]

http://toolserver.org/~dschwen/wma/...875&globe=Earth&page=undefined&lang=undefined



India hold the main Siachen Glacier, from its north to its south. Indira col , Sia La on the North, Bilafond La are main forward posts facing Pakistan and you can see in the image how Far Gyong La is and the Avalanche Site from the main Glacier. You are completely more than 10 miles away to the west from the glacier.

You can also have look of IAF base on Siachen in this google map.

So please drop all your false claims what Pakistani text book teaches you.

 

[Secur]

Later in 1984, India took full control of the area as well as most of the peaks of the Saltoro range.

Really ? Why do sources say that India " only controls 2/3 and not the full and absolute " as you are trying to portray !

India hold the main Siachen Glacier, from its north to its south. Sia La on the North, Belfond La are two main forward posts facing Pakistan and you can see in the image how Far Gyong La is and the Avalanche Site from the main Glacier.

So please drop all your false claims what Pakistani text book teaches you.

Well , you cant even properly name the passes ! Really ? How far is it ?

Passes of the glacier or glacial valleys constitute parts of the Glacier hence any world map logically shows the whole region as " Siachin Glacier " ... I do not understand the Indian logic of considering " only areas under their control " as part of Siachin though ...

 

[Bang Galore]

Really ? Why do sources say that India " only controls 2/3 and not the full and absolute " as you are trying to portray !

What sources? Never any Indian sources! A quick look at the map & where Saltoro is would disabuse anyone of that silly notion. Saltoro is to the west of Siachen & Indian soldiers control almost all the heights. How then can Pakistanis be in an area behind Indian positions?

 

[Secur]

What sources? Never any Indian sources! A quick look at the map & where Saltoro is would disabuse anyone of that silly notion. Saltoro is to the west of Siachen & Indian soldiers control almost all the heights. How then can Pakistanis be in an area behind Indian positions?

Which sources dictate that only 2/3rd of siachen is controlled by India? Every source I can see clearly says Saltoro is to the west of siachen, and india controls all areas upto saltoro.

Presently India holds two-thirds of the glacier and commands two of the three passes including the highest motorable pass – Khardungla Pass. Pakistan controls Gyong La pass that overlooks the Shyok and Nubra river Valley and India`s access to Leh district. The battle zone comprised an inverted triangle resting on NJ 9842 with Indira Col and the Karakoram Highway as the other two extremities. All about the Siachen Glacier: the conflict, perspectives of India and Pakistan, geography, history and the possible resolutions - About

India spends more than Rs 5 cr a day to maintain the 76 km glacier, 2/3rd of which is under Indian control. Pakistan, which controls the rest of the glacier, spends less than half of what India does. Former Army chiefs have repeatedly refused any unilateral pullout without authentication by Pakistan. Army says firm no to Siachen pullout

It may just take a little, longer... for the brave-hearts of the Indian Air Force. World’s toughest battlefield, where temperature ranges from 30º C to minus 70º C, about which there is an old saying in the region, “to these places only the best of the friends and the fiercest of the enemies visit”Presently, India holds two-thirds of the Glacier and commands two of the three passes. http://mod.nic.in/samachar/june1-06/h4.htm

Presently India holds two-thirds of this 78 km long and 3 km wide glacier and commands two (Sia La and Bilfond La) of the three passes The Centre for Land Warfare Studies (CLAWS)

Presently India holds two-thirds of the glacier and controls two of the three passes including the highest motorable pass – Khardungla Pass. Pakistan controls the Gyong La pass, India’s access to K-2 and the surrounding peaks. The word “Siachen” ironically means ‘the place of wild roses’. The Indian Slice of Kashmir, Srinagar and beyond to the border | Hermes On Wings | Rahul Wishard | Foto Nomad

Only if you cared to scroll the thread before desperately jumping on the bandwagon ! You would have seen not only International but also Indian sources put it as 2/3rd and not full area !

Sorry , almost every map and source names the whole region as " Siachin Glacier " including all passes and glacial valleys !

 

[Screambowl]

Really ? Why do sources say that India " only controls 2/3 and not the full and absolute " as you are trying to portray !



Well , you cant even properly name the passes ! Really ? How far is it ?

Passes of the glacier or glacial valleys constitute parts of the Glacier hence any world map logically shows the whole region as " Siachin Glacier " ... I do not understand the Indian logic of considering " only areas under their control " as part of Siachin though ...

you cannot call Baltoro Glacier or Biafo glacier as Siachen Glacier. The word you are looking for is ' Siachen Muztagh' which is 60% with the China and 40% with India, but the Glacier starts within Indian control territory.

What Pakistan holds is Baltoro Muztagh that is in PÖK and Gyong La Pass doesn't include in Siachen glacier and meanwhile your post where Avalanche Happened is no where near to any glacier.

 

[Secur]

you cannot call Baltoro Glacier or Biafo glacier as Siachen Glacier. The word you are looking for is ' Siachen Muztagh' which is 60% with the China and 40% with India, but the Glacier starts within Indian control territory.

What Pakistan holds is Baltoro Muztagh that is in PÖK and Gyong La Pass doesn't include in Siachen glacier and meanwhile your post where Avalanche Happened is no where near to any glacier.

You are mistaken again ! No one has even once in this thread called " Baltoro Glacier " as part of Siachin nor mentioned Siachen Muztagh ! We are talking about the glacial valleys and passes of the Siachen Glacier 1/3rd of which are controlled by Pakistan hence disproving that " they control not an inch of the region " ... All the world maps consider the whole area as " Siachin " ... Refute the sources I posted !

Baltoro is far from the AGPL and Gyong La is one of the three major passes of the Siachen ... It so happens as I explained in my first post in the thread that " Indians consider only their controlled part of Siachin as Siachin "

The Baltoro Glacier, at 62 kilometers long, is one of the longest glaciers outside the polar regions[1]. It is located in Baltistan, in the Gilgit-Baltistan region of Pakistan, and runs through part of the Karakoram mountain range. The Baltoro Muztagh lies to the north and east of the glacier, while the Masherbrum Mountains lie to the south. At 8,611 m (28,251 ft), K2 is the highest mountain in the region, and three others within 20 km top 8,000 m.

You may be looking for this !

 

[Screambowl]

You are mistaken again ! No one has even once in this thread called " Baltoro Glacier " as part of Siachin nor mentioned Siachen Muztagh ! We are talking about the glacial valleys and passes of the Siachen Glacier 1/3rd of which are controlled by Pakistan hence disproving that " they control not an inch of the region " ... Refute the sources I posted ! Baltoro is very far from the AGPL and Gyong La is one of the three major passes of the Siachen ... It so happens as I explained in my first post in the thread that " Indians consider only their controlled part of Siachin as Siachin "

it is on the saltoro ridge and not a glacial system and which is away from the glacier .but the highest point on this ridge is controlled by India and the second highest K12 glacial system is also within indian control. No strategic use for you. what Part of Glacier of Siachin do Pakistan have?

The Baltoro Glacier, at 62 kilometers long, is one of the longest glaciers outside the polar regions[1]. It is located in Baltistan, in the Gilgit-Baltistan region of Pakistan, and runs through part of the Karakoram mountain range. The Baltoro Muztagh lies to the north and east of the glacier, while the Masherbrum Mountains lie to the south. At 8,611 m (28,251 ft), K2 is the highest mountain in the region, and three others within 20 km top 8,000 m.

You may be looking for this !

Siachen GLACIER is 70km, 2nd longest in the world and is in Indian control. you control some other rides near to the glacier but not on glacier. That's what every one here is trying to explain.

 

[Secur]

it is on the saltoro ridge and not a glacial system and which is away from the glacier .but the highest point on this ridge is controlled by India and the second highest K12 glacial system is also within indian control. No strategic use for you. what Part of Glacier of Siachin do Pakistan have?

So no matter what prove is posted from International sources , Indians will continue being " in denial mode " and going round and round in circles ... What is on the Saltoro ridge and not a glacial system ? For the record , Pakistan has the highest number of glaciers outside the polar regions ! ... Why do not you refute the sources that I posted above ? ... The world knows the whole region including passes and glacial valleys as part of Siachin and hence marks it as such in every single map you can find ! Its only your lot that thinks only their controlled parts = Siachin !

I have refuted the strategic importance of Siachin for India earlier in this thread , check it ! You cant come down and threaten us by any means !

 

[Alfa-Fighter]

Yes Right , Glacier and area near glacier don't make it part of glacier.

The fact that PAK control lower part of glacier where it start and india control the high point of glacier.

 

[Secur]

Yes Right , Glacier and area near glacier don't make it part of glacier.

The fact that PAK control lower part of glacier where it start and india control the high point of glacier.

Why do all International sources think otherwise then ? ... Possibly they know better to include all passes and glacial valleys as part of the glacier , right ? Check every single map ... The areas will be collectively known as " Siachin Glacier " and not the upper part and lower one as you seem to think !

True , You cant come down and we cant go up ... PA sends logistics by road and IA by air !

Indians are very happy to include Bilafond La and Sia La as part of Siachin but when it comes to the third pass - Gyong La controlled by Pakistan , the logic suddenly reverses so to keep the success record 100 % ! How naive ! But whatever helps you guys sleep !

 

[AUz]

True , You cant come down and we cant go up ... PA sends logistics by road and IA by air !

Exactly. Pakistan Army has 'check-mated' Indians. Indians sitting on the top spends WAY more money and takes MORE damage than Pakistani troops do (Check stats from 1984 to now) ... It is hard for India to maintain its forces there...they transport logistics through air while Pakistan Army has built networks of roads around that region .. So after all the fuss , fighting , expenditures , political drama etc etc ... Pakistan Army has locked Indian Army on the top and made them sit there in the freezing dead cold ...and that too...for NO reason at all because India has absolutely no strategic advantage of their positions ..

 

[Screambowl]

So no matter what prove is posted from International sources , Indians will continue being " in denial mode " and going round and round in circles ... What is on the Saltoro ridge and not a glacial system ? For the record , Pakistan has the highest number of glaciers outside the polar regions ! ... Why do not you refute the sources that I posted above ? ... The world knows the whole region including passes and glacial valleys as part of Siachin and hence marks it as such in every single map you can find ! Its only your lot that thinks only their controlled parts = Siachin !

I have refuted the strategic importance of Siachin for India earlier in this thread , check it ! You cant come down and threaten us by any means !

if you read geography you would see the difference between Glacier, the source of river and a Mountain ridge.
it doesn't matter how many glaciers you have what matters is the shortage of water is still hurting Pakistan. (Not my words)

your own president has quoted of losing 900 sq miles to India. Plus the Strategic importance of our posts in Siachin is that instead carrying out direct operation in Siachen you were left with one choice to cut national highway 1 of India linking Kashmir to Siachin. Plus there is big debate going on the strategic importance of Siachin on other threads. But the longest glacier is with Indian control

Why do all International sources think otherwise then ? ... Possibly they know better to include all passes and glacial valleys as part of the glacier , right ? Check every single map ... The areas will be collectively known as " Siachin Glacier " and not the upper part and lower one as you seem to think !

True , You cant come down and we cant go up ... PA sends logistics by road and IA by air !

Indians are very happy to include Bilafond La and Sia La as part of Siachin but when it comes to the third pass - Gyong La controlled by Pakistan , the logic suddenly reverses so to keep the success record 100 % ! How naive ! But whatever helps you guys sleep !

Gyong la is far below Saltoro kangri, and more of that region is under Indian control.

 

[Secur]

if you read geography you would see the difference between Glacier, the source of river and a Mountain ridge.
it doesn't matter how many glaciers you have what matters is the shortage of water is still hurting Pakistan. (Not my words)

your own president has quoted of losing 900 sq miles to India. Plus the Strategic importance of our posts in Siachin is that instead carrying out direct operation in Siachen you were left with one choice to cut national highway 1 of India linking Kashmir to Siachin. Plus there is big debate going on the strategic importance of Siachin on other threads. But the longest glacier is with Indian control

Gyong la is far below Saltoro kangri, and more of that region is under Indian control.

Kid , I understand geography better than you ... I have asked you to refute the sources I have posted and answer me " Why do all the world maps show all the glacial valleys and passes as part of a Glacier " ?

Irrelevant ! Are we discussing water shortages here ?

Yeah , he did ... But he said " We lost what we claimed and not what we controlled " but just to satisfy their ego , Indians cherry picked between his statements ... There's no strategic importance of your posts in the Frozen Hell , believe what you want to believe ! Can you come down and threaten us by any means ? NO ! What direct operations would we want in there ? Do naive Indians still believe Pakistan was planning another geographical link up with China through Karakorum Pass in that inhospitable and hostile region ? NH1 is still well within the range of Pakistani artillery from Peak 5353 and surrounding areas ... Really ? What sort of debate ? Talking random **** wont do the trick for you if you cant explain that fictional strategic importance !

In two ways, India ’s position has already been compromised, as Pakistan controls the Gyong La pass overlooking Shylok and Nubra rivers, along with the road that links mainland India to Leh, and China ’s de facto hold over Aksai Chin. - BR

Doesn't matter if Gyong La is far down or up , what matters is that its one of the three major passes of Siachin and hence part of it ... Or the sudden logic reversal is again at work ? ... Yeah 2/3 , not the full as some loved to believe here ...

 

[Screambowl]

Kid , I understand geography better than you ... I have asked you to refute the sources I have posted and answer me " Why do all the world maps show all the glacial valleys and passes as part of a Glacier " ?

Pakistan holds only one post,gyong La in the whole region and which is under Indian range of fire.
The world calls it a drainage basin for rivers.

Irrelevant ! Are we discussing water shortages here ?

one of the main strategic value lies here only.

Yeah , he did ... But he said " We lost what we claimed and not what we controlled " but just to satisfy their ego , Indians cherry picked between his statements ... There's no strategic importance of your posts in the Frozen Hell , believe what you want to believe ! Can you come down and threaten us by any means ? NO ! What direct operations would we want in there ? Do naive Indians still believe Pakistan was planning another geographical link up with China through Karakorum Pass in that inhospitable and hostile region ? NH1 is still well within the range of Pakistani artillery from Peak 5353 and surrounding areas ... Really ? What sort of debate ? Talking random **** wont do the trick for you if you cant explain that fictional strategic importance !

In two ways, India ’s position has already been compromised, as Pakistan controls the Gyong La pass overlooking Shylok and Nubra rivers, along with the road that links mainland India to Leh, and China ’s de facto hold over Aksai Chin. - BR

Doesn't matter if Gyong La is far down or up , what matters is that its one of the three major passes of Siachin and hence part of it ... Or the sudden logic reversal is again at work ? ... Yeah 2/3 , not the full as some loved to believe here ...

I do not know what Part of Siachen except for just ONe post that too in the outer ridges you have? LOL

After kargil what happened with Pakistan's diplomacy is not something plausible. and Bombing NH1 would not give you a piece of cake any more. After kargil things have changed. Holding just one post gyong la well within Indian range is useless.
The strategic value of Siachin lies well within the sketching of LoC. There is no official recognition of LOC in that region till now so who ever captures first, land belongs to that party.