Shourya hypersonic missile launch successful

[nForce]

Keep in mind that all seekers, active EM or passive IR, have scan limits, meaning the seeker cannot see beyond its physical limitations imposed by the nose cone. There is a risk that by the time the missile reached the general vicinity where the target is supposed to be, the target may be outside of the seeker's scan limits.

Assuming the seeker is active EM, there is a manufacturing defect call 'radome aberration'...

All active EM seekers suffers this defect. The issue is manufacturing tolerances where the missile's avionics does not have to deal with this error beyond a certain statistical point. That point is secret, of course.

Passive IR seekers suffers similar manufacturing defects in the glass nose cone.

What kind of material is normally used to make the cone so that this error can be minimized??

 

[Vasily Zaytsev]

Few points...

1) Shaurya weighs only 6 tonnes. It is a two stage missile.

2) So after first stage removed, it will be around four tonnes. Nearly same weight of Brahmos (3 tonnes).

3) Shaurya will not need current 1 ton payload as well.

4) Shaurya is already highly maneuverable, while ships move relatively slow. If we can have a highly agile anti-ballistic missile like AAD which needs to be more correct than milliseconds than it can. We have done it through Brahmos (Mach 3), we are planning to do it with Brahmos-2 (Mach 7) than we can do it with Shaurya too.

Sir, Shaurya is solid motor , on the other hand Brahmos I is ramjet and Brahmos 2 would be scramjet. So maneuvering will be relatively easier in case of brahmos. Also, aad is surface to air, while shaurya could be called as air to surface in its terminal stage. AAD is maneuvered by its tail fins. No such luxury in shaurya. AAD is mach 4 , shaurya is mach 8. AAD is small light, while shaurya is large and heavy.

Brahmos can maneuver better than shaurya because its speed is mach 2.8, and travels only 290 kms. Ramjet engine plays the role.
Brahmos hypersonic though more speed, less distance and scramjet engine. Scramjet engibe is key here.

I still don't know the technology that can help Shaurya to take antiship role . Flex nozzle can work only so to dodge the ABM.

 

[Kinetic]

Keep in mind that all seekers, active EM or passive IR, have scan limits, meaning the seeker cannot see beyond its physical limitations imposed by the nose cone. There is a risk that by the time the missile reached the general vicinity where the target is supposed to be, the target may be outside of the seeker's scan limits.

Assuming the seeker is active EM, there is a manufacturing defect call 'radome aberration'...

Radome techs ensure pilots can see


All active EM seekers suffers this defect. The issue is manufacturing tolerances where the missile's avionics does not have to deal with this error beyond a certain statistical point. That point is secret, of course.

Passive IR seekers suffers similar manufacturing defects in the glass nose cone.

In that case we should add midcourse update to the missile. But I still think it will not be a problem. Harpoon takes the same 8.6 minutes to reach its target (125 km at 864 km/h). Shaurya will take same or less time to reach 750 km. So the ship going out of seeker's range or nosecone is minimum.

 

[gambit]

What kind of material is normally used to make the cone so that this error can be minimized??

That is a loaded question. There is a direct relationship between the quality of the radar system and the quality of the material used and the radome manufacture. Basically, what good is installing a high quality radar system capable of multiple targets discrimination within 100 km range, one-degree pencil beamwidth, high gain antenna, etc...etc...But all you have is material that propagate instead of pass-through?

L-3 ESSCO - Homeland Security Mobile Platforms

A radome should be as transparent as possible. We have material ranges from polycarbonate to Gore-Tex to simple fiberglass. Each has different pass-through properties, especially when we are dealing with centimetric wavelengths.

 

[gambit]

In that case we should add midcourse update to the missile. But I still think it will not be a problem. Harpoon takes the same 8.6 minutes to reach its target (125 km at 864 km/h). Shaurya will take same or less time to reach 750 km. So the ship going out of seeker's range or nosecone is minimum.

The problem with midcourse updates are the intervals between updates. Ideally, we should have constant updates to the missile. But we have to plan for less-than-ideal situations which is the norm in war. So we burden the missile with its own sensors, data collection, and analysis capabilities for when we have no choice but to leave the missile on its own. The more advanced these capabilities, the SOONER and QUICKER we can leave the missile to its own devices. These we call 'fire and forget'. Of course, in the early days, we joke that we can 'forget' about the missile hitting the target. Advanced sensors required as transparent materials as possible that protects them. Keep in mind that in a ship versus missile scenario, if the missile failed by just one meter, the ship win.

 

[Kinetic]

Sir, Shaurya is solid motor , on the other hand Brahmos I is ramjet and Brahmos 2 would be scramjet. So maneuvering will be relatively easier in case of brahmos.
Brahmos can maneuver better than shaurya because its speed is mach 2.8, and travels only 290 kms. Ramjet engine plays the role.
Brahmos hypersonic though more speed, less distance and scramjet engine. Scramjet engibe is key here.

Yes, relatively easy but not much when the speed is extremely high like Mach 7/8. Brahmos-2 and Shaurya case will be nearly same.

Also, aad is surface to air, while shaurya could be called as air to surface in its terminal stage.

You are forgetting the main advantage of Shurya here, AAD will intercept a ballistic missile coming at 150000 km/h while Shaurya will engage a ship which will have maximum speed of 35 km/h. Here it is about steering the missile at high speed, I think we can do it.

Think like in relative velocity, simple physics, AAD+target BM combined speed (Mach 17/18)and Shaurya+ target ship combined speed (Mach 8). One is much high than another.

AAD is maneuvered by its tail fins. No such luxury in shaurya. AAD is mach 4 , shaurya is mach 8.

Shaurya also have fin like other agile missiles.

AAD is small light, while shaurya is large and heavy.

The target also different.

I still don't know the technology that can help Shaurya to take antiship role . Flex nozzle can work only so to dodge the ABM.

Shurya has fins for that. That is how it maneuvers at terminal phase before hit.

http://www.tejaswy.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/11/shaurya-21.jpg

 

[Kinetic]

The problem with midcourse updates are the intervals between updates. Ideally, we should have constant updates to the missile. But we have to plan for less-than-ideal situations which is the norm in war. So we burden the missile with its own sensors, data collection, and analysis capabilities for when we have no choice but to leave the missile on its own. The more advanced these capabilities, the SOONER and QUICKER we can leave the missile to its own devices. These we call 'fire and forget'. Of course, in the early days, we joke that we can 'forget' about the missile hitting the target. Advanced sensors required as transparent materials as possible that protects them. Keep in mind that in a ship versus missile scenario, if the missile failed by just one meter, the ship win.

Yes, you are rite. This (midcourse) will not make it a perfect Fire and forget missile. but what about the time to travel the target as I mentioned? Example: Harpoon takes more time than Shaurya to reach the target. If for Harpoon the target does not go out of seeker's nosecone or range, it should not go for Shaurya.

 

[illuminatidinesh]

Yes, you are rite. This (midcourse) will not make it a perfect Fire and forget missile. but what about the time to travel the target as I mentioned? Example: Harpoon takes more time than Shaurya to reach the target. If for Harpoon the target does not go out of seeker's nosecone or range, it should not go for Shaurya.

Does harpoon a True "Fire and Forget" missile? I thought it does gets mid course guidance from fighters.

 

[Veeru]

GOD SAVE OUR ENEMIES NOW ..

God will be biased for India even he will not save them

 

[gambit]

Yes, you are rite. This (midcourse) will not make it a perfect Fire and forget missile. but what about the time to travel the target as I mentioned? Example: Harpoon takes more time than Shaurya to reach the target. If for Harpoon the target does not go out of seeker's nosecone or range, it should not go for Shaurya.

Travel time to target as a factor decreases with increasing seeker and avionics capability. For example: If the target is out of seeker scan limits, does the avionics remember the target's last known location to attempt acquisition by loitering or at least one go-around? If the missile receives periodic, if not constant, updates from an external source, how 'smart' is the avionics if there is a conflict between its own sensors versus these updates? Difficult to believe but during development, these conflicts occurs quite often resulting in embarrassing PR failures.

 

[Veeru]

Guys I have met DRDO scientists in Defense Expo these were the scientist working on Shaurya project they have shown me graphs and diagrams which states that its a unique missile in the world.

No other missile shares its features.

The person launching this missile can choose the maneuvering and trajectory randomly from dozens of prefeeded one. Making it impossible to predict its course or intercept it

Both are come under quasi ballistic missile that is y I told . One is hypersonic and other one is high hypersonic , IMO high hypersonic with re-entry speed is superior.

Shaurya is a hybrid missile its don't follow ballistic trajectory in its full course.

That's a ballistic missile,why are you comparing it with Shaurya which is a cruise missile??Just take a look at the size of both systems and then talk.Besides,only greater range does not mean superiority.

Shaurya is not a cruse missile but a hybrid missile its have close resemblance with balletic missiles but it have very unique trajectory which can be chosen by the person firing it.

That's the reason it was kept secret..The second test was secret too...

I was surprised to read this statement:-


Who knows may be there are some silos in NE ready to fire Shaurya!!!

More than Brahmos Shaurya is a nightmare for enemies because it is nuclear capable and does not leave the atmosphere, its detection by radars would be too late to track and intercept. Further more it does not follow the ballistic path instead it does steep dive hence for any ABM system it would be pain to predict its path for interception. Shaurya is powered throughout its path up to the point of landing.

Yes its very hard to intercept Shaurya because no other missile have trajectory like it, that's why no enemy is prepared for what is coming

 

[Night_Raven]

Yes its very hard to intercept Shaurya because no other missile have trajectory like it, that's why no enemy is prepared for what is coming

The more the chances of different trajectory , the less the probability of its interception.

Btw this is the first missile I heard of that has a customizable kill path ....

 

[Kinetic]

Travel time to target as a factor decreases with increasing seeker and avionics capability. For example: If the target is out of seeker scan limits, does the avionics remember the target's last known location to attempt acquisition by loitering or at least one go-around? If the missile receives periodic, if not constant, updates from an external source, how 'smart' is the avionics if there is a conflict between its own sensors versus these updates? Difficult to believe but during development, these conflicts occurs quite often resulting in embarrassing PR failures.

The same seeker and avionics capability can be added to Shaurya as well. Many of these have been proven through Brahmos. The small seeker of AAD has a range of 20 km against ballistic missile it should be much high in case of ship. So like Harpoon the target ship going out of seeker's range is minimum.

 

[lepziboy]

Why does shaurya need less testing than the agni series?

 

[Kinetic]

Why does shaurya need less testing than the agni series?

Shaurya being tested 3 times and K-15 being tested another 4/5 times. Its more than enough.