Should the US continue support to Israel?

[Falcon29]

There is ample support from people who firmly believe Jesus will come if US will support Israel , and top that off all major financial companies have huge Jewish presence or ties

This is the only reason for the Blind support US has for Israel its all About Jesus second coming to them.

They don't say it out loud but the religious group , effects the presidential election and the elections day anyone who wins reaffirms to US people they will support Israel for a reason.

A myth has been created and is spread at lower levels in USA in radio , talk shows and media that Jesus will only support those who support Israel , and that is what they believe in

Can't disagree with this. There is intended sensationalism as well pushed by various Jewish/Christian elements in the American society that any Israeli attack on besieged, devastated Gaza is a prelude to a Russian/Chinese/Arab attack on Israel in which God will defeat all of them together.

Which is a disturbing pattern I see every time.

 

[MilSpec]

Do you sincerely believe an effort to resolve this by the United states even exists? Can you show an example where the US brought us closer to peace?

I do, If US had not hold back Israel, i doubt if any hamas, hezbollah, PLO, would have been alive. and the collateral damage would have been so high, that Palestinians would have been nearly extinct.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

The 10% of the rich class believe in the Jesus myth and that are the driving force , to push US policies towards Blind eye to Israeli actions. Its mostly the Super rich folks that own media , oil and other strategic institutes who determine what the President of US will push in policies once he is elected.

The ultra rich are also indirectly responsible for puting in capitals to make movies and finance programs that help promote a view in general public about a topic

US policies are influenced by 2 groups

a) Corporations that push for moves to secure resources and human capital at cheap rate
The corporations most of time don't pay any tax , as they have their capital outside of USA
The fund the presidential campaign and donate millions during election time , afterwords
they impose their will and get legislation passed according to their wills

b) The Jesus Myth clans , Christian Jihadis

90% other folks don't make any difference

 

[Falcon29]

I do, If US had not hold back Israel, i doubt if any hamas, hezbollah, PLO, would have been alive. and the collateral damage would have been so high, that Palestinians would have been nearly extinct.

This is coming from a think tank...impressive....

If the US didn't support Israel from the first place Israel wouldn't have weapons/funding/US political backing to attack the Palestinian people. Hezbollah isn't related to the Israeli/Palestinian conflict.

You didn't address the question though. What steps has the US taken that reflect upon this 'effort' to resolve this conflict? Besides preventing genocide as you oddly claim.

The 10% of the rich class believe in the Jesus myth and that are the driving force , to push US policies towards Blind eye to Israeli actions. Its mostly the Super rich folks that own media , oil and other strategic institutes who determine what the President of US will push in policies once he is elected.

US policies are influenced by 2 groups

a) Corporations that push for moves to secure resources and human capital at cheap rate
The corporations most of time don't pay any tax , as they have their capital outside of USA
b) The Jesus Myth clans , Christian Jihadis

90% other folks don't make any difference

To me A) is a consistent reality unfortunately. But, as US citizens increasingly turn left and towards more atheistic culture could B) change?

 

[MilSpec]

This is coming from a think tank...impressive....

If the US didn't support Israel from the first place Israel wouldn't have weapons/funding/US political backing to attack the Palestinian people. Hezbollah isn't related to the Israeli/Palestinian conflict.

Well reality is reality, if you have a problem with that, i cant help you... we all would like world peace, but we have to live in the real world.

Israel was formed by the Allied forces after worldwar II, on formation it was attacked immediately aligning it militarily with Allied powers. later naked aggression from neighboring states consolidated it's positions even further. Employing terror tactics, air plane hijacking, doesn't help the Palestinian/Arab cause, your support system consists of terror outfits and ruthless dictators pleading your cause. and then you complain why the west sides with Israel... go figure.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

Well reality is reality, if you have a problem with that, i cant help you... we all would like world peace, but we have to live in the real world.

Israel was formed by the Allied forces after worldwar II, on formation it was attacked immediately aligning it militarily with Allied powers. later naked aggression from neighboring states consolidated it's positions even further. Employing terror tactics, air plane hijacking, doesn't help the Palestinian/Arab cause, your support system consists of terror outfits and ruthless dictators pleading your cause. and then you complain why the west sides with Israel... go figure.

Why does the West side with Israel though?

Just because the Jews are mostly of European (white) descent, religious ties with Christians, or what?

Because they are "culturally Western"?

Geopolitically, the Muslim world has a lot more to offer than Israel (for example they control the majority of the world's oil/gas reserves and have around 1.5 billion people). Unfortunately for them though, the Muslim world is wrought with infighting at the moment, so it's hard for them to present a united front.

 

[Falcon29]

Well reality is reality, .

It's your reality. The kind that exists in your head. The rest of your post was filled with meaningless rhetoric which has no relevance to the topic. I didn't get a constructive opinion from you. And it's clear that can't be achieved. Thanks for pitching in though.

 

[patriotpakistan]

And why is supporting Israel in the best interests of the USA?

Evangelical Christian extremists in the US believe that Armageddon, Jesus's second coming and the Rapture will not arrive until they fullfill biblical prophecy by supporting Israel. And yes, the Evangelicals are powerful in the US and they want to ignite armageddon!

They strongly believe that their support for Israel is commanded by God through these verses: "I will bless those who bless you, And I will curse him who curses you; And in you all the families of the earth shall be blessed” (Genesis 12:3). They are scared of being cursed by the nation who was ultimately cursed for eternity by God himself.

A jewish reporter did an expose on them a while back. It also explains why these people hate muslims and are persecting them in their countries. Heres the video:

Source: Rapture Ready: The Unauthorized Christians United for Israel Tour | Max Blumenthal

 

[MilSpec]

Why does the West side with Israel though?

Just because the Jews are mostly of European (white) descent, religious ties with Christians, or what?

Because they are "culturally Western"?

look at the side pleading the Palestinian actions thoughout the history : Egypt, syria, Jordan, Lebanon, hamas, Hezbollah, PLO, and look at their rap sheet... Most of the nation pleading for Palestine do no believe in two state solution, most don't even recognize Israel....

It's your reality. The kind that exists in your head. The rest of your post was filled with meaningless rhetoric which has no relevance to the topic. I didn't get a constructive opinion from you. And it's clear that can't be achieved. Thanks for pitching in though.

When did facts become rhetoric?

 

[Falcon29]

When did facts become rhetoric?

Your post is rhetorical. This topic also isn't intended to debate who's right or wrong in the I/P 'conflict'. It's related to US support of Israel, what it's based of off, what is there to gain/lose, why one does or doesn't support continuing the support.

Can I be any more clear?

Most of the nation pleading for Palestine do no believe in two state solution, most don't even recognize Israel....

Which nations are you talking about? The 138 nations who voted in favor of a Palestinian state at the UN or...?

 

[Viper0011.]

the support was not there after ww2…. the support started around 60s i believe.... it can change as soon as we get other more influential lobbies besides the jewish lobbyists.

Well you are VERY misinformed. In 1967, the Israeli forces were able to literally win wars with many Arab nations if it came to that. So you are saying that if the support started in the 60's, in 7 years all the training, tactics, installations were built and excelled by the IAF and all?
How long is it taking you to induct the JFT? Just one platform.....here we are talking about a military that was going to take on many countries and MUCH larger ones. The support was there from the day 1. In the 60's, due to war and other issues, the US openly took the Israeli side.

 

[Falcon29]

Well you are VERY misinformed. In 1967, the Israeli forces were able to literally win wars with many Arab nations if it came to that. So you are saying that if the support started in the 60's, in 7 years all the training, tactics, installations were built and excelled by the IAF and all?
How long is it taking you to induct the JFT? Just one platform.....here we are talking about a military that will take on many countries and MUCH larger ones. The support was there from the day 1. In the 60's, due to war and other issues, the US openly took the Israeli side.

Let's not get off topic. First of all, 1967 was an Israeli surprise attack. But, we're not going to discuss that here. I don't get what relevance your response has in regards to his post. I can't even tell what you're trying to imply. Please don't attempt clarifying to me.

 

[LeveragedBuyout]

Why should the US continue to support Israel?

1) We are bound to by treaty.
2) Lebanon is a failed state, Syria is a failed state, Iraq is a failed state, Libya is a failed state, Egypt is an open question. Israel is an anchor for our interests in the region.
3) Israel is a liberal democracy that largely shares our values.
4) Our support enables us to control their defense industry (veto rights over transfer of technology).
5) Our defense and technology sectors are deeply intertwined.
6) Our support binds them to us diplomatically (Israel has a socialist past, leaving an opening for Russia or China).
7) Their intelligence agencies are able to provide critical insight into the area.
8) Israel is a magnet for Muslim supremacists and terrorists who would otherwise go after us directly. $3bn in aid essentially leverages up to a ~$17bn mosquito torch for the region.
9) We can use Israel as diplomatic leverage in the region (i.e. we will restrain Israel, in return, you do something for us).

The better question is, why shouldn't we continue to support Israel?

1) The enemies of Israel tend to be the worst kind of authoritarian, fundamentalist states, which would naturally be hostile to US whether or not we supported Israel, or even whether or not Israel existed.

2) Can you provide an example of a country that is hostile to Israel, that would not be hostile to the US without our support of Israel, and that the US would derive any benefit from? Turkey is already in our corner, no matter what we do with Israel. Iran will always be against us, no matter what we do with Israel. We don't need Arab oil, which the Arab states realize after their failed oil embargo, so the "moderate" Arab states will stay on-side no matter what we do with Israel.

The only justification I can think of is the cost of the military aid, but that's part of a package with Egypt (and to some extent, Jordan), so it would be difficult to imagine cutting off Israel without cutting off the other two. Cutting off all three would essentially lock the US out of that region--for what benefit?

 

[Falcon29]

Why should the US continue to support Israel?

1) We are bound to by treaty.

Most Americans would prefer aid to Egypt/Israel to come to an end. Especially considering the record for the new brutal regime in Egypt. And the Israel commitment to international law it has displayed over the past several decades.

2) Lebanon is a failed state, Syria is a failed state, Iraq is a failed state, Libya is a failed state, Egypt is an open question.

And? Will more unconditional support to Israel ensure a better future for the ME?

Israel is an anchor for our interests in the region.

What are those interests?

3) Israel is a liberal democracy that largely shares our values.

Most people would argue that it's an ethnocracy. Just look at the Israeli Law of Return while denying the Palestinians their right to return, for a start.

4) Our support enables us to control their defense industry (veto rights over transfer of technology).

Apparently not so:
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/China/DL04Ad01.html

5) Our defense and technology sectors are deeply intertwined.

How so?

6) Our support binds them to us diplomatically (Israel has a socialist past, leaving an opening for Russia or China).

This doesn't mean anything and is in no way an advantage. Not a strong point.

7) Their intelligence agencies are able to provide critical insight into the area.

With our funding. We have an intelligence agency.

8) Israel is a magnet for Muslim supremacists and terrorists who would otherwise go after us directly.

I'm not taking this seriously.

9) We can use Israel as diplomatic leverage in the region (i.e. we will restrain Israel, in return, you do something for us).

Like what exactly? Restrain Israel from doing what? And when has Israel ever even accepted us as using your so called 'diplomatic leverage' on them? We called for 1967 borders, our president openly stated so. The Bush administration's position also favored 1967 borders. Instead, Israel dismissed the position of which had been always the framework for a solution. When we use our 'leverage' to call on Israel to reverse Illegal settlement plans our calls are never heard. When we use our 'diplomatic leverage' to prevent Israel from bombing UN shelters housing refugees it doesn't work.

What works is real use of leverage. Such as when we froze a shipment of missiles to Israel, which got Israel to think twice before continuing it's onslaught against Gaza.

The better question is, why shouldn't we continue to support Israel?

First of all, I'm going to pretend like your extremist Indian background has no reflection upon your views. Secondly, we're going to hear about that from others who post in this thread.

 

[LeveragedBuyout]

Most Americans would prefer aid to Egypt/Israel to come to an end. Especially considering the record for the new brutal regime in Egypt. And the Israel commitment to international law it has displayed over the past several decades.



And? Will more unconditional support to Israel ensure a better future for the ME?



What are those interests?



Most people would argue that it's an ethnocracy. Just look at the Israeli Law of Return while denying the Palestinians their right to return, for a start.



Apparently not so:
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/China/DL04Ad01.html



How so?



This doesn't mean anything and is in no way an advantage. Not a strong point.



With our funding. We have an intelligence agency.



I'm not taking this seriously.



Like what exactly? Restrain Israel from doing what? And when has Israel ever even accepted us as using your so called 'diplomatic leverage' on them? We called for 1967 borders, our president openly stated so. The Bush administration's position also favored 1967 borders. Instead, Israel dismissed the position of which had been always the framework for a solution. When we use our 'leverage' to call on Israel to reverse Illegal settlement plans our calls are never heard. When we use our 'diplomatic leverage' to prevent Israel from bombing UN shelters housing refugees it doesn't work.

What works is real use of leverage. Such as when we froze a shipment of missiles to Israel, which got Israel to think twice before continuing it's onslaught against Gaza.



First of all, I'm going to pretend like your extremist Indian background has no reflection upon your views. Secondly, we're going to hear about that from others who post in this thread.

If you don't like the way I analyze the situation, why did you ask? You've known as far back as the USS Liberty thread which side I take. I shouldn't have bothered responding, lesson learned.