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Should Pakistan recognize Israel?

Should Pakistan recognize and establish better ties with Israel?


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Sir

According diplomatic recognition is not the same as approving policies - we have diplomatic relations with the U.S but do nto approave of all policies of the U.S. -- why should Israel be different?

You misrepresent - in the earlier post about diplomatic recognition, you choose to argue "clandestine contacts" -- one points to apples you respond pointing to oranges arguing they may be thought of as apples of a different kind.

Now you do the same arguing that India are natural and Israel, other than - you seem unaware that "India" are a UK creation, no such a nation state ever existed in that "Land mass" before, for that matter no such a state known as Pakistan ever existed in that land mass before and also owes it's creation to the English.

Israel are situated on a land mass known historically as Palestine, A land mass, not a nation state, Israel have a history as a nation state going back more than 2000 years, at least - it is also a fact that such a nation state had ceased to exist - however; to argue that it is "unnatural" and whereas the entirely new creation of "India" are "natural" is to stretch credulity and challenge your readers patience if not intelligence.

I should like otpoint out to you that it is not so much Israel that stands in the way of a Palestinian state, it is the political ambitions of Palestinians that does so, Hamas and the PA have done a terrible job and brought the territory to ruin in pursuit of their ideologies.

A1, I don't think you are doing justice to your critical faculties, that the U.S and Europeans powers and even Israel and Egypt back the PA, does not make them illegitimate -- the same U.S and European powers also back the Pakistani government, will you also argue that it makes the Pakistani government "defeatist" -- you seem to suggest that "moderate" is a label to be worn with great shame - since when? young sir! Isn't the middle path we are advised to follow, have not the sages and saints and the sacred scriptures recommend such and to reject the extreme, but to maintain balance, Deen and Duniya? Please do consider. All countires and state and municipal and private organizations exercise influence, there is nothing inherently wrong with that, Pakistan exercise the same influence, did we not help Lanka defeat the LTTE? Was that inherently wrong of us to protect our interests??

Also please consider that Hamas's first supporters were Israel, yes, as a counter to the Fatah influence - this FACT must not be overlooked when formulating arguments to support your position, because your interlocutors will not have overlooked it.

It is again a misrepresentation of the Hamas position to suggest that it's entirety consists of rejection. Hamas seek to coerce Israel to such that the PA will be secondary and that Israel will then have to be more attentive tot he agenda Hamas have set, it is but a ploy, a tactic. It is an absurd notion to imagine that a political party that does not recognize the existence of those it is in conflict with, can engage in negotiations with them - negotiating with those you do not recognize, how is such a thing possible?.

Pakistan and any other combination of countries cannot hope to apply pressure on Israel, until they have diplomatic relations with Israel. See, in a civilized order, you have to give all parties the cover of sovereign equality, you have to recognize them as sovereign, you have to assure them that you have an interest in their well being and that you will allow them to have a interest in your well being -- in other words, we must first allow the Israeli to develop an interest and then allow the realization that they now have something to lose, instead of more to gain.

It is not just you or I and others who find some policies that he Israeli state follows, noxious, many Israeli do as well - you read OP/ED pieces written by eminent and accomplished Israeli in Pakistani papers, therefore you are aware that there is much discussion and increasing awareness on all sides.

Sir, contrary to surface indications, where as it seems that the world is in conflict, there is also a recognition that international order can not afford these conflicts for much longer -- you may not realize it but there is much activity aimed at resolving conflicts and to preventing them, such an effort requires that we as Pakistan be seen by parties as potential friend and not as partisan and unwilling to accept others. We invite those who are not our friends to be our friends and this helps those who are already our friends because we may offer our goodwill and good offices.

Israel should be no different than any other country, we should have diplomatic and commercial relations and influence them to understand the impact of some polices they follow on us and we ready for th4em to influence us on the impact of some policies we follow on the Israeli public, it's civil, it's the right thing to do.
 
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Is Israel the only nation in the UN with which Pakistan does not have diplomatic relations? Is Israel the most evil nation on the planet in Pakistani eyes? Why?
 
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Does Israel exist ? Yes of course she does - Should we negate reality?
No of course we should not, it would be stupid to do so.

Diplomatic relatiosn does not mean that we give our assent, our approval to those polices which we think are unjust, but justice should cut at least both ways, should it not, we want justice for all, not just some and not others.

When we will not even engage, when we will not even recognize realiity, can we hope to be parft of the solution? If tomorrow we insist that the sun does not exist, even though we feel it's heat and light, will it cease existing? will it grow cold and dark when the sun is out?

Lets be sober, justice requires reason, in fact it is born out of reason, lets avoid feeling and start thinking, only in this way can we hope to help those we wish to help.

My simple answer to above post & similar posts.
'DOES EVIL/SATAN EXISTS? YES IT DOES. SHOULD WE NEGATE REALITY-' LETS RECOGNIZE REALITY AND COME TO TERMS WITH HIM'
WHY FIGHT HIM. LETS BE SOBER, WE CAN GAIN A LOT OF BENEFITS FROM HIM.
 
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Zubair what the hell are you talking about man!! seriously..either add to the discussion in a proper legitimate way instead of posting rhetoric
 
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Zubair what the hell are you talking about man!! seriously..either add to the discussion in a proper legitimate way instead of posting rhetoric

First have a clear & clean mind to understand what I am trying to convey. ISRAEL was formed on 'injustice', mass massacares and displacement of local population which is continuing till today. All of this is a reality. If you want to come to terms with this reality why not SATAN.
 
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First have a clear & clean mind to understand what I am trying to convey. ISRAEL was formed on 'injustice', mass massacares and displacement of local population which is continuing till today. All of this is a reality. If you want to come to terms with this reality why not SATAN.
Nonsense.Israel was approved by UN and British made it the same way Pakistan was made..However after some years Israel started taking over more Land which IS WRong.No body is denying that but recognizing it is not the problem.We also recognize India which was responsible for breakup of United Pakistan.
 
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Mr. No-SENSE , keep on justifying your pathetic slave ways as sense. Its people like you which gives me the vision that maybe TALIBAN can takeover. Because just mere sheeps, who can never stand up & the moment TALIBS show up will be the first one running away
 
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What Utter Bullshit your spewing is irrelevant, you are making a complete azz out of yourself who can't have a proper conversation and has to justify all answers with religion. Don't even talk about the word 'Sheep'. Its people like you who've never opened a book in your life, taking a hard line religious approach that the Taliban live and breed on. Its people like us who would never let the Taliban come in power and people like you who would believe every religious dogma that comes from the Mouth of Hardline ignorant clerics.

Its people like you who believe everything is controlled and done by hindus, jews, zionists and America. Controlling you shouldn't be that hard since you lack critical thinking, so before you say the word 'Slave', you only need to look yourself in the mirror kiddo... Go out and vote for MMA

Now run along and until you have something proper to say i suggest you keep your hands away from the keyboard, you don't have to but there are some intelligent people posting really good material here for others to read and gain good knowledge about be it for or against Israel.
 
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'DOES EVIL/SATAN EXISTS? YES IT DOES. SHOULD WE NEGATE REALITY-' LETS RECOGNIZE REALITY AND COME TO TERMS WITH HIM'
WHY FIGHT HIM. LETS BE SOBER, WE CAN GAIN A LOT OF BENEFITS FROM HIM.

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Zubair:

We, as Muslim folk, and Jews and Christians, based on our religious beliefs and teachings have complete conviction that Satan exists, we do not negate his existence.

You seem to want to argue that Israel is Satan -- is this a position you are arguing is rooted in Islam? If this is your argument than we must be thankful that we are not any part of your understanding of Islam - and I would suggest to you that you are tragicly mistaken and are a victim of ideology.

We are Muslims and Whether we are christians or Jews, we are FAITHFUL to God, not to your ideology. Please do reconsider using Islam as justification for hatred and blasphemy.
 
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i cant believe how many people said YES we should reconginze actually Masjid AL-Aqsa in Jeruslem thats our 3rd holiest place and we should make an attemp to take it back from Kuffar's and killed thousands of innocent Palestinian Childers you guys need some serious history lessons.

Before we take Masjid Ul Aqsa, we should have some one among us who is Like Salah-Ud-Din who can bring firstly All Muslims together on this isue, without us being one on the issue of recognition and Jerosalum, we are no where.

We need some one with guts, to get glory, some with charisma to lead and someone with knowledge to convey the truth.
 
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Focus -- The proposition we are discussing is should Pakistan accord diplomatic recognition to Israel or Not -- not ideology posing as religious propositions or the silly notions of a distorted history - history in the service of ideology.
 
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'DOES EVIL/SATAN EXISTS? YES IT DOES. SHOULD WE NEGATE REALITY-' LETS RECOGNIZE REALITY AND COME TO TERMS WITH HIM'
WHY FIGHT HIM. LETS BE SOBER, WE CAN GAIN A LOT OF BENEFITS FROM HIM.

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Zubair:

We, as Muslim folk, and Jews and Christians, based on our religious beliefs and teachings have complete conviction that Satan exists, we do not negate his existence.

You seem to want to argue that Israel is Satan -- is this a position you are arguing is rooted in Islam? If this is your argument than we must be thankful that we are not any part of your understanding of Islam - and I would suggest to you that you are tragicly mistaken and are a victim of ideology.

We are Muslims and Whether we are christians or Jews, we are FAITHFUL to God, not to your ideology. Please do reconsider using Islam as justification for hatred and blasphemy.

According to our Holy prophet this is explanation of a Muslim.

Verily ye are ordered the divine commandments, then forsake them not; ye are forbidden the unlawful, then do not fall therein; there are fixed boundaries, then pass not beyond them; and there is silence on some things without their being forgotten, then do not debate about them.

Above verse explains not only for Muslims but for Jews and christian alike, they follow it clearly. than they on right path, if not than they are astry.

And than see the acts of Israel in Gaza and in palistine and u will see if the follow the right path. thats all.
 
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ASq


No one has argued that Israeli policies in Gaza and elsewhere are praise worthy --

BUT by the criteria you have laid, should Pakistan have relations with Saudi Arabia?? With Iran?? with India?? With Russia??

And what about in Pakistan itself?? And among the Ulema??

Sometimes on this forum, one really has to question the quality of education some members display - every manner of ridiculous argument is presented, backed up no less by verses of the Quran - is this not ideology over religion?? Is this not blasphemy?? Is this not obscene??
 
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Mr. No-SENSE , keep on justifying your pathetic slave ways as sense. Its people like you which gives me the vision that maybe TALIBAN can takeover. Because just mere sheeps, who can never stand up & the moment TALIBS show up will be the first one running away

Sheeps ?? your the one who's brainwashed into hating israel why the hell can't we recognize them ? we have no disputes with them the problem is between them and the arabs not us .
They been here for 60+ years now and haven't gone anywhere and like it or not we can't do anything about it what is ignoring them is doing nothing.Maybe it's time to just move with the times and join the majority of the world including dozens of muslim countries and just accept them.Having relations doesn't mean supporting illegal activities we can still be against their policies also support palestinian homeland just like jordan,egypt, turkey even india and many others do.
 
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