Should Pakistan recognize Israel?

[Enigma SIG]

No Sir, my views concern the lack of arab support for Kashmir only. All Arab countries including the Palestina have diplomatic ties with India yet they expect us to support their cause in case of Israel.

I'm all for "Pakistan comes First" policy. If only these arabs would boycot Indian products in favor of Pakistani exports I'd say we're gaining from our current stance of not recognising Israel. But that is not the case, in fact our anti-zionist position has brought India and Israel (read USA) much closer.

So far we've gained nothing!!!

The arabs are known to put their interests forward rather than anybody elses; if theres money to be made; they're at the forefront. Why would the arabs ban indian imports? Their economy depends on it for labor; foodstuff; civil engineering; everything. Go to any gulf country and you'll notice more than 50% of the workforce of any particular company is indian.

Furthermore; egypt and jordan recognize israel because they share borders with it; and they just cannot afford not to have diplomatic relations with it; and frankly the arabs dont even give a damn about palestine (OIC is just that; oh i see); why are we so worried about them raising an issue over kashmir?

Pakistan being the only muslim nuclear state; should not withdraw from its stance of not recognizing israel as a legitimate entity. India and Israel will come closer regardless of our accepting Israel as a state. I find it hard to believe as someone posted that we could gain militarily by accepting Israel; that is not going to happen my friend.

Regarding kashmir and our diplomatic relations with india; they are our neighbors; and as egypt and jordan; we have to have diplomatic relations with India to sort out our problems on kashmir.

 

[Jihad]

Why recognize a state which uses modern state of the art Apaches and F16's over urban areas where women and children live and are unable to protect themselves.
Why recognize a state which sees an Israeli life as more precious then a Palestinian one.

Nope, not for me, Israel isn't wanted nor recognized, atleast not by me, not by my friends, not by my neighbourhood etc.

 

[asq]

Asq


Thank you for your post - it was not as well organized as it might have been - so I'm confused - it seems you think the purpose of foreign policy is to impart Islam upon others - this may give us some insight.

You were asked if we should employ your critreria to relations with Saudi Arabia, Iran and in particular to Ulema. You have respond witht he usual "this is not real Islam" stuff - If today people are confused between the so called "real Islam" and the other "Real islam"(s) who is to blame for that but "real" muslims - anway lets look at the substance :

.


More "real Islam", sir?

Neo

You would want diplomatic recognition withdrawn from India till they withdraw from Kashmir? If nort, how do you justify your position?

does it not make sense to you that the Islam is a deen of benevolent, being depicted as Violent, is wrong depiction by those who are not sympathetic and are bent on harming Islam.

In Islam u cannot give lashes to girl for walking with her relative for shopping, or behead a person for only accusation by the govt, they have to have three independent witnesses.

But that all applied only if it is applied to the ruler as well, ruler cannot keep luxurious palaces and fly to Europe in Luxury and leave poor to suffer the punishment.

All wealth is property of people at large in Saudi Arabia, and therefore should be given to them as it belongs to them.

In the time of Umer-e-Khatab one person challenge him fot the shirt he was wearing and his share of cloth could not have made the shirt.

Umer Khatab answered the question by producing his sons and the share of cloth that his donated to father to make the shirt.

The reason to tell u this is that how in Islam one can question Ameer, provided it is truthful and not making a mockery. a simple honest question to a great Leaders.

One time umar Khatab was invited to visit Jerusalem, he set out by setting time share with the person he accompany, at the gates it was that mans turn to ride, he offered Ameer, but Umar refused saying this is not just, what would i answer on the day of judgment to Allah, so walked in to Jerusalem walking with reign of Camel in his hands and the servant sitting on the camel.

Just two of the million examples, what Islam was and should be.

 

[muse]

Asq


Soon those who ascribe to the kinds of opinion you have outlined will find that the world will have collapsed on them, they will be on the run everywhere, even here

I think we had a belly full of these "real" islams and "real" muslims, thanks but no thanks.

 

[alirulesall123]

The arabs are known to put their interests forward rather than anybody elses; if theres money to be made; they're at the forefront. Why would the arabs ban indian imports? Their economy depends on it for labor; foodstuff; civil engineering; everything. Go to any gulf country and you'll notice more than 50% of the workforce of any particular company is indian.

Furthermore; egypt and jordan recognize israel because they share borders with it; and they just cannot afford not to have diplomatic relations with it; and frankly the arabs dont even give a damn about palestine (OIC is just that; oh i see); why are we so worried about them raising an issue over kashmir?

Pakistan being the only muslim nuclear state; should not withdraw from its stance of not recognizing israel as a legitimate entity. India and Israel will come closer regardless of our accepting Israel as a state. I find it hard to believe as someone posted that we could gain militarily by accepting Israel; that is not going to happen my friend.

Regarding kashmir and our diplomatic relations with india; they are our neighbors; and as egypt and jordan; we have to have diplomatic relations with India to sort out our problems on kashmir.

Blah Blah Blah, Just more excuses for Pakistanis to suck up to the Arabs. So what if their workforces are made up of Indians? That doesn't mean they have to support India. As i said before, Islam has NOTHING to do with Palestine. Do you really think that if the Palestinians were Christians, the Arabs would give a **** about them? I don't think so. Leave it to the Arabs to fix their own little disputes.

 

[zubair723]

'DOES EVIL/SATAN EXISTS? YES IT DOES. SHOULD WE NEGATE REALITY-' LETS RECOGNIZE REALITY AND COME TO TERMS WITH HIM'
WHY FIGHT HIM. LETS BE SOBER, WE CAN GAIN A LOT OF BENEFITS FROM HIM.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Zubair:

We, as Muslim folk, and Jews and Christians, based on our religious beliefs and teachings have complete conviction that Satan exists, we do not negate his existence.

You seem to want to argue that Israel is Satan -- is this a position you are arguing is rooted in Islam? If this is your argument than we must be thankful that we are not any part of your understanding of Islam - and I would suggest to you that you are tragicly mistaken and are a victim of ideology.

We are Muslims and Whether we are christians or Jews, we are FAITHFUL to God, not to your ideology. Please do reconsider using Islam as justification for hatred and blasphemy.

You are not understanding me at all. Lets take 'We are faithful to GOD'. Are we? GOD ways do not acknowledge 'wrongs', bloodshed, injustices,crimes etc. If we accept what are not GOD ways, saying 'We are faitful to GOD' is just insulting him in avery hyprocritical way. Commiting sins is human business, justifying sins is devlish business.

 

[tshahzad]

Whether we accept or not, Israel is a reality. It is good or bad, is another debate. The fact is that Israel is a reality and we need to accept it as an independant country and then deal with it according to our own interest.

 

[Muradk]

Why recognize a state which uses modern state of the art Apaches and F16's over urban areas where women and children live and are unable to protect themselves.
Why recognize a state which sees an Israeli life as more precious then a Palestinian one.

Nope, not for me, Israel isn't wanted nor recognized, atleast not by me, not by my friends, not by my neighbourhood etc.

You are very right but on the other hand we have been doing deals with them for the 30 years through different channels.
Where do you think the spare parts of F-16 came from in the 90s.

 

[asq]

Asq


Soon those who ascribe to the kinds of opinion you have outlined will find that the world will have collapsed on them, they will be on the run everywhere, even here

I think we had a belly full of these "real" Islams and "real" Muslims, thanks but no thanks.

No it will not collapse, but will reward them for following the Deens the way it was meant to be, how do you figure it will collapse, fighting like a lion and not like a coward is the thing to do,claiming to be Democratic and yet do not allow the right to choose to Palestinians, block weapons as if the have the right to all modern weapons not others, fighting with people who have sticks and stones and boasting about power of their Army.

For Muslims when fighting keep in mind the cowardice of those u fighting, how do you figure it will collapse, please explain.

It is up to you if u had belly full of Islam, as there is no compulsion in Deen the choice is yours, those who say otherwise are not right.

 

[asq]

You are very right but on the other hand we have been doing deals with them for the 30 years through different channels.
Where do you think the spare parts of F-16 came from in the 90s.

What have we been doing, can you elaborate, if we did this is to tell them that we do not like talking to them for them being acting like infidels and not real Jews.

Real Jews would follow the Holy Torah and its basic advise to to not kill innocent, to not blockage the vital supplies and to not block water, power and food supplies etc etc, these acts will make one infidel, A real devoted Jew will refrain from doing this sort of nasty thing. In war would do as it is clearly written, kill only those who fight, if they drop their weapons than forgive and do not spoil water, cut trees and kill children and old people including women.do you have the proof tha Isarel gave us parts for F16, why would they do it when they are helping India against us, it does not make sense.

they hate Muslim, how do i know this, by their acts against Muslims in Gaza, in Lebanon and other wars, also how they treat their Arab citizens.

 

[asq]

Whether we accept or not, Israel is a reality. It is good or bad, is another debate. The fact is that Israel is a reality and we need to accept it as an independant country and then deal with it according to our own interest.

We have to keep convaying to them that their acts are no Jewish but against what Holy Torah says and we will talk to them if the behave like real Jews and not as Kafirs. Both in peace and war.

 

[asq]

Whether we accept or not, Israel is a reality. It is good or bad, is another debate. The fact is that Israel is a reality and we need to accept it as an independant country and then deal with it according to our own interest.

We are dealing with them according to our beliefs, by not talking to them we are showing them that their behavior is not of a true Jew and that it is like a infidel and that they ought to be have like what is written in Holy Torah.

 

[khanz]

Though, the meeting was considered the first-ever contact between the two ideological states which do not recognise each other, however, a backdoor diplomacy between the two governments was continuing for last various years. A Karachi-based defence analyst and a senior religious scholar from Lahore had been shuttling between Islamabad and Tel Aviv via Jordan during last four years.



Israeli Foreign Minister Silvan Shalom and his Pakistani counterpart Khurshid Kasuri met in Istanbul for what they called ‘historic’ talks arranged after Turkey played a mediating role to bring them together.



At a joint press conference with Mr Shalom, Mr Kasuri hailed the withdrawal of Israeli troops and settlers from the Gaza Strip, which he said constituted a turning point for the establishment of a Palestinian state. However, the Israeli minister did not mention whether the Zionist state is going to pull out from remaining over 130 settlements.


On the other hand, the Palestinian Authority says it is ‘worried’ about Pakistan’s first diplomatic contact with Israel as the Jewish state continues to occupy east Jerusalem and the West Bank.


“It is not good to give Israel gifts before it really implements the peace process, not only in Gaza, but, the West Bank and Jerusalem,” deputy prime minister Nabil Shaath told reporters.


The Islamic Resistance Movement of Hamas has also denounced the meeting and urged Pakistan not to fall into the trap of seeing the Gaza pullout as synonymous with the end of occupation.


Although, Pakistan says its position on the Middle East crisis remains unchanged that calls for an independent Palestinian state with Al Quds as its capital, however, according to analysts, this sudden meeting has raised the doubts that Pakistan may change its stance as it did in case of Kashmir.


Israel has full diplomatic relations with three Arab states — Mauritania, Egypt and Jordan — and a handful of Muslim majority states, including Turkey.

Pakistan News PakTribune.Com

 

[Enigma SIG]

Leave it to the Arabs to fix their own little disputes.

Yup; they're rightly doing so; standing ovation for Egypt who are choking these poor people to death

Keep the muslims divided; they wont help each other in time of need; that's why we lost east pakistan didn't we? Muslims really are getting what they rightfully deserve; disgust from the world...

Then we go about why Islam is cursed everywhere

I'm happy though; we are still keeping relations with denmark over blasphemy of the Prophet SAW; why not with Israel; they deserve our utmost respect

 

[asq]

Though, the meeting was considered the first-ever contact between the two ideological states which do not recognise each other, however, a backdoor diplomacy between the two governments was continuing for last various years. A Karachi-based defence analyst and a senior religious scholar from Lahore had been shuttling between Islamabad and Tel Aviv via Jordan during last four years.



Israeli Foreign Minister Silvan Shalom and his Pakistani counterpart Khurshid Kasuri met in Istanbul for what they called ‘historic’ talks arranged after Turkey played a mediating role to bring them together.



At a joint press conference with Mr Shalom, Mr Kasuri hailed the withdrawal of Israeli troops and settlers from the Gaza Strip, which he said constituted a turning point for the establishment of a Palestinian state. However, the Israeli minister did not mention whether the Zionist state is going to pull out from remaining over 130 settlements.


On the other hand, the Palestinian Authority says it is ‘worried’ about Pakistan’s first diplomatic contact with Israel as the Jewish state continues to occupy east Jerusalem and the West Bank.


“It is not good to give Israel gifts before it really implements the peace process, not only in Gaza, but, the West Bank and Jerusalem,” deputy prime minister Nabil Shaath told reporters.


The Islamic Resistance Movement of Hamas has also denounced the meeting and urged Pakistan not to fall into the trap of seeing the Gaza pullout as synonymous with the end of occupation.


Although, Pakistan says its position on the Middle East crisis remains unchanged that calls for an independent Palestinian state with Al Quds as its capital, however, according to analysts, this sudden meeting has raised the doubts that Pakistan may change its stance as it did in case of Kashmir.


Israel has full diplomatic relations with three Arab states — Mauritania, Egypt and Jordan — and a handful of Muslim majority states, including Turkey.

Pakistan News PakTribune.Com

Mr. Kasuri did this against the wishes of most Pakistanis, and that is why it is not a common knowledge.