Should Pakistan look to buy Saudi Al-Madinah Frigates now that Saudi is Modernizing its Navy?

[YeBeWarned]

I'd rather see 4 Milgem Class Corvette with either RAM-2 or 16x VLS ..
and later pre-Order 4 Istanbul class Frigates or 2 Type 52 Destroyers .

 

[Fledgingwings]

It wont happen !

 

[Rashid Mahmood]

Is KSEW enough for doing indigenous projects for friagtes and destroyers or Gwadar Naval dockyard is still needed ?

KS&EW is being upgraded and expanded to handle the future shipbuilding requirements.
Another shipyard would always be beneficial, but no plans yet.

A few questions for you if i may:
A)What is the reason for PN not following up on the F22 for an order.
B) We notice a change in direction of PN with a sudden lunge towards Turkish platofrms. Why this sudden move/change in direction?
C) What does a collaboration with turkey bring us which the Chinese were not giving us?
D) Is there time for us to build up the navy and do we have enough strength platforms wise or do you think we need intermediate arrangements?
As always answer that which you are comfortable with sharing on an open forum. Anyone else who wants to educate this old man is also welcome.
A

A. Not a specific reason. 4 x FFGs of a class are enough. Even if PN followed up on the F22s, they would have been modified. Opting for the Milgem will enhance our own skills and diversity.

B. Turkish inclination is in the Govts interests.
Also our historical relationship with Turkey and their expertise in Naval Weapon systems is also an important factor.

C. A totally different set of tech. EU/US based technology. Turkey is a Muslim country and we need a strong Muslim ally also.

D. Depends on the adversary and the time we have. At present IMO we are short of surface platforms against our enemy, so we tend to make it up by using sub-surface platforms our main offensive element.
The next 5 - 10 years will see a major build-up in the PN.

 

[syed_yusuf]

no way

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

I think the Turkish Corvettes is a wonderful purhcase , Military/Airforce/Navy they have a smart plan

 

[Aamir Hussain]

A few questions for you if i may:
A)What is the reason for PN not following up on the F22 for an order.
B) We notice a change in direction of PN with a sudden lunge towards Turkish platofrms. Why this sudden move/change in direction?
C) What does a collaboration with turkey bring us which the Chinese were not giving us?
D) Is there time for us to build up the navy and do we have enough strength platforms wise or do you think we need intermediate arrangements?
As always answer that which you are comfortable with sharing on an open forum. Anyone else who wants to educate this old man is also welcome.
A

AoA.I suspect F22 is not up to the expectations of PN. That is why the rush for all thnigs Turkish who happen to have access to Western technologies. Furthermore, the ships are classified as light Frigates, very little room for retrofitting and upgrades.

 

[Pandora]

Yes buy them and be their bitchh for another decade or so. Seriously stop begging infront of these scum bags and retain some dignity.

 

[Mangus Ortus Novem]

Yes buy them and be their bitchh for another decade or so. Seriously stop begging infront of these scum bags and retain some dignity.

Yes, brother, I say the same. Break this bloody beggar's bowl...break chains of mental captivity..

What is holding back PNS to build its own ships?

If sub-systems are required then there are many options... Turkish Delight is much sweater and there are other options...

It is a painful sight to read these threads and Young Paks open such thread without even thinking about Self Respect and National Dignity...

I sincerely hope that Pak SPD and Armed Forces make a solemn Oath that the goal is from now on to become Indpendent in Defence of Pak...

The Pak industrial base needs to expand not shrink...

People need to realise that every time you buy a second hand or new platform Pak industrial base takes a nose dive...

There is enough Full Spectrum Deterence for india never to attack... this state of cold peace must be fully realised to build Defence Industrial Base and create a cadre of engineers and skilled workforce...

One hopes Paks begin to act in Pak's national interests...

 

[MastanKhan]

Yes buy them and be their bitchh for another decade or so. Seriously stop begging infront of these scum bags and retain some dignity.

Hi,

When it is for national defence---I would beg borrow or steal---. How do you think we built our nuc and missile program---we begged borrowed and stole off course---.

In relating to defence matters---it is not about the ego---but rather about the focus and goal in front of you---at what you want to achieve.

Remember---when you need that ONE bullet---would you rather have the chamber empty or would you rather have it loaded with the one begged / borrowed---.

When ever you get thoughts like this---just consider the example of Israel---they paid---begged---borrowed---stole---they did everything to get their weapons and weapons system.

Any less is not acceptable from a patriotic citizen. The bullet does not know---if it has been begged borrowed or stolen---it will do its job without prejudice every time you pull the trigger.

 

[Hamza913]

Do we have any major plans to buy more ships? We are severely lacking in them.

 

[Cool_Soldier]

These ships are more than 3o years age, obviously PN should not be interested in Old tech rather than focus on new tech with TOT.

But, if these are available free of cost, take them.

 

[FuturePAF]

Hi,

When it is for national defence---I would beg borrow or steal---. How do you think we built our nuc and missile program---we begged borrowed and stole off course---.

In relating to defence matters---it is not about the ego---but rather about the focus and goal in front of you---at what you want to achieve.

Remember---when you need that ONE bullet---would you rather have the chamber empty or would you rather have it loaded with the one begged / borrowed---.

When ever you get thoughts like this---just consider the example of Israel---they paid---begged---borrowed---stole---they did everything to get their weapons and weapons system.

Any less is not acceptable from a patriotic citizen. The bullet does not know---if it has been begged borrowed or stolen---it will do its job without prejudice every time you pull the trigger.

Thank You
You got it; we need to maintain qualitative forces in some quantity, how ever we can get them

 

[Zyzz]

We should stay away from Saudi's if anything.
We have destroyed our relationship with our neighbor Iran in hopes of winning the hearts of these arabs... They have done nothing for us, everytime there is a crisis, we send our men to safeguard them.

so conclusion = no support to saudia

 

[MastanKhan]

We should stay away from Saudi's if anything.
We have destroyed our relationship with our neighbor Iran in hopes of winning the hearts of these arabs... They have done nothing for us, everytime there is a crisis, we send our men to safeguard them.

so conclusion = no support to saudia

Sir,

You are a bLATANT liar---saudi arabia and emirates have helped us in more way than can be disclosed---. Everytime there is a crisis---they have opened their checkbooks.

So stop lying about saudi arabia / GCC---.

IRAN is the ENEMY---for its past actions---it cannot be trusted.

 

[CHI RULES]

There are some points here required more discussion.
1. We have Chinese example where China got a scrapped Russian AC and rebuilt it as new one. Same examples are there in case of Iran and North Korea which changed their almost junk frigates into at least some sort of shape. Perhaps PN was of same idea in case they tried to get 3 more OHPs. Yes in longer run PN can produce anything with JV or collaborations but what PN should do now. The below position clears PN current frigate strength.

1 5 F21 Tariq class destroyers already passed their useful life.
2. F22P frigates without any credible medium/long range AD capabilities.
3. Sole OHP without any Sam and have limited ASW/ASHM capabilities.

So how PN may counter IN in case of near future conflict with above resources until and unless any intermediate inductions are not made.

2. Can PN even afford to build 5 modern frigates even in medium term to replace F21s which require immediate replacement.

3. Is it not sane decision to get Chinese or Italian availble old ships and modernize the as done in the past and go for new once in long run with CPEC financial benefits.

4. Is it not rational for PN to immediately divide PN in two portions i.e Gawadar Command and Karachi command.
The detailed comments by pros are requested.