Should INDIA rethink on MMRCA when Chinese buy SU-35

[hkmarine55]

Since am not able to reply with quotes ..

Su-35 should have slight advantage in almost every aspect against air targets because of bigger and more power-full radar, longer reach missiles for high priority targets.

Probably Rafale has better land attack option because lower minimum airspeed, but Su-35 would be able to carry Brahmos for big land and sea punch and will have power-full jammers to avoid even latest radar guided missiles.

Rafale in my opinion should have lower cost of operation.

If I understood it correctly It need to be 2 rafale against 1 Su 35 should be the winning combination against Su-35s.Am not just trolling or BS on it. Let me put you all with some specs and features of bothe ACs.

Pesa radar of su 35 has range upto 425 km.. for 5 rcs. If rafale had rcs of 5m^2 as u mentioned fully armed then what made u to belive rafale as upper hand over 35s ? Max Detection for 5 sqm RCS - 426 kmSu-35S has N-035 IRBIS-E. The most powerful Fighter Plane mounted X Band radar in the world. Specs are as follows.
Transmitter peak power - 20kw
Transmitter average power - 5kw
Can Track - 30 Targets
Can Simultaneously Engage - 8 Targets
Irbis-E radar detects air targets with an absolute cross section of 3 m2 on a head-on course at a range of up to 400 km.



Su-35S has N-035 IRBIS-E. The most powerful Fighter Plane mounted X Band radar in the world. Specs are as follows.
Transmitter peak power - 20kw
Transmitter average power - 5kw
Can Track - 30 Targets
Can Simultaneously Engage - 8 Targets
Max Detection for 5 sqm RCS - 426 km
Max Detection for 3 sqm RCS - 375 km
Max Detection for 1 sqm RCS - 285 km
Max Detection for 0.01 sqm RCS - 90 km

If this is the case Rafale with 2 drop tanks and Missile will have greater RCS than .07 Sqm Which should be more than 1 SQm .So now Su-35 can detect rafale at a distance of 280 km .Since New Su-35 are armed with RVV-BD with range between 160km ~200 km when fired from hight altitude .It will home rafale even before rafale Squadrn knew wat hit them.It creates panic among invading rafale goup which in turn give rafale pilots to drop their drop tanks and get ready for evasive flight.But since Su 35 has higher range it heads toward rafale in LOOK DOWN mode from high altitude .But with out a drop tank rafale h=will have no choice but to escape from the battle untill the back up arrives. Even thou rafale detect SU35 at 180 kms it has no missile to fire targets beyond 100km (meteor) Am not saying rafale is a bad fighter but Against Su35 rafale lacks in 1 on 1 fight.

Just little worried about su 35 with chinese airforce.Chinese have many fighter jet programs yet they bought this 4++ machine which is highly speculative.Sure they are going to copy it and its technology

 

[Koovie]

Since am not able to reply with quotes ..

Su-35 should have slight advantage in almost every aspect against air targets because of bigger and more power-full radar, longer reach missiles for high priority targets.

Probably Rafale has better land attack option because lower minimum airspeed, but Su-35 would be able to carry Brahmos for big land and sea punch and will have power-full jammers to avoid even latest radar guided missiles.

Rafale in my opinion should have lower cost of operation.

If I understood it correctly It need to be 2 rafale against 1 Su 35 should be the winning combination against Su-35s.Am not just trolling or BS on it. Let me put you all with some specs and features of bothe ACs.

Pesa radar of su 35 has range upto 425 km.. for 5 rcs. If rafale had rcs of 5m^2 as u mentioned fully armed then what made u to belive rafale as upper hand over 35s ? Max Detection for 5 sqm RCS - 426 kmSu-35S has N-035 IRBIS-E. The most powerful Fighter Plane mounted X Band radar in the world. Specs are as follows.
Transmitter peak power - 20kw
Transmitter average power - 5kw
Can Track - 30 Targets
Can Simultaneously Engage - 8 Targets
Irbis-E radar detects air targets with an absolute cross section of 3 m2 on a head-on course at a range of up to 400 km.



Su-35S has N-035 IRBIS-E. The most powerful Fighter Plane mounted X Band radar in the world. Specs are as follows.
Transmitter peak power - 20kw
Transmitter average power - 5kw
Can Track - 30 Targets
Can Simultaneously Engage - 8 Targets
Max Detection for 5 sqm RCS - 426 km
Max Detection for 3 sqm RCS - 375 km
Max Detection for 1 sqm RCS - 285 km
Max Detection for 0.01 sqm RCS - 90 km

If this is the case Rafale with 2 drop tanks and Missile will have greater RCS than .07 Sqm Which should be more than 1 SQm .So now Su-35 can detect rafale at a distance of 280 km .Since New Su-35 are armed with RVV-BD with range between 80 to 160km when fired from hight altitude .It will home rafale even before rafale Squadrn knew wat hit them.It creates panic among invading rafale goup which in turn give rafale pilots to drop their drop tanks and get ready for evasive flight.But since Su 35 has higher range it heads toward rafale in LOOK DOWN mode from high altitude .But with out a drop tank rafale h=will have no choice but to escape from the battle untill the back up arrives. Even thou rafale detect SU35 at 180 kms it has no missile to fire targets beyond 100km (meteor) Am not saying rafale is a bad fighter but Against Su35 rafale lacks in 1 on 1 fight.

Just little worried about su 35 with chinese airforce.Chinese have many fighter jet programs yet they bought this 4++ machine which is highly speculative.Sure they are going to copy it and its technology

Lets leave away the specs (The Rafale is more multi role capable and stealthier than the Su 35 BTW)

This deal is also about technology, 50% offset and strategic partnership.

We already have access to Russias best technology with the FGFA deal, and the specs of the Super Sukhois will be similar to the ones of the SU35

 

[sankranti]

MMRCA tech transfer looks dicey ....time to look at plan B.

 

[hkmarine55]

The Su-35 is superior Rafale in close air combat 1.95: 1.29 = 51%, in the far dogfight 1.93: 1.27 = 52%
That is, the Su-35 before dying in battle destroy two Rafale

"Success rate." Rafale would be more likely implemented as a project by 30%

 

[hkmarine55]

MMRCA deal already under many problems Including Kickbacks ,Trender procedure and RAFALE not accepting for tender rules too ..WTH ? Still its a winner ? When EF typoon want to reduce the cost (5 million costiler than rafale) with transfer of technology and 1st batch of EF will be delivered in few months of contract signed .I really dont know what made MoD to think Technology of EF is inferior to RAFALE ? By far technology involed with EF is greater than RAFAlE EF as RCS of .05~.1 Sqm compared to .3~.5 Sqm of rafale.Its a scam thats what am affraid of.Rafale is a multirole fighter TRUE.Do we need 174 land attack fighter jet or Air superiority Fighters? We will get tejas MK1 and MK 2(Multi role) AMCA(multirole) UCAU-Aura(to take out enemy instalation)

 

[godofwar]

Learn how to discuss first kid and come again.

Not a single source, still not a single official statement, etc..... these kind of suggestions show that you have no freaking clue about what you are talking about noob.

troll put on ignore list

 

[hkmarine55]

If the topic is Su 35 vs EF typoon my answer will be diffrent.

 

[IND151]

^^ Rafael is omni role fighter but more suited for A2G role than A2A

Flanker series is more suited for A2A role(remember it is derived from Su-27 which was desgined as Air superiority fighter, though having capability of playing A2G role)
@sancho> am I right?

We want a medium weight fighter to replace jags and migs and we also need advanced tech to strengthen our aerospace sector, which Rafael deal will bring with ToT

Su 35 is heavy weight fighter and as we are already going for Super MKI, Su 35 is not logical choice for us

Rafael fits the bill

 

[hkmarine55]

Serious differences have cropped up in the contract negotiations between the Defence Ministry and French firm Dassault Aviation selected for the 126 fighter aircraft deal threatening to delay the country’s largest one-time military acquisition.

Dassault has made it clear that it was “technically and practically not feasible to stick to the present obligations”, as it is wary of encountering the fate of British telecom company Vodafone, which is facing problems over taxation issues.

In the contract, Dassault wants to be held responsible for only the first 18 aircraft to be supplied by it along with the kits to be supplied by it for the remaining 108 aircraft to be produced by the HAL in India but the Defence Ministry wants it to take responsibility for the quality and timely delivery of all the 126 aircraft.

The Defence Ministry is insisting that Dassault takes the overall responsibility of the contract while the French firm has told it that it was “technically and practically not feasible” to stick to the present obligations, sources told PTI here.

The French firm also does not want to be held responsible for the delays in the delivery of the aircraft to be manufactured by the HAL and has told the Ministry that it cannot be held responsible for paying the liquidity damages in case there are delays by HAL, they said.

Dassault fears it may land up in a Vodafone-like situation in terms of taxation for transfer pricing if it agrees with present obligations and such a thing can impact it adversely in a big way, sources said.

Dassault has suggested an “umbrella contract” to be signed for the deal under which two separate contracts can be inked including one for payment in Euros for the French firm and the other with HAL for which payments would be made in Rupees, the sources said.

The Ministry has, however, expressed inability to agree on these terms as it would be in deviation from the conditions mentioned in the Request for Proposal (RFP) for the procurement. The base price for the deal was $10 billion and contractual negotiations are underway to determine the final amount to be paid by India for the aircraft. Soon after the Rafale fighter jet was shortlisted by IAF in 2012, Dassault Aviation has been raising questions about the capabilities and the role of HAL in the contract for 126 Medium-Multirole Combat Aircraft (M-MRCA).

The Defence Ministry had earlier also rejected Dassault’s demand for making it the lead integrator for the 108 aircraft to be produced in India as the RFP for the tender has specifically given that responsibility to the HAL.


What is wrong in the Dassault’s stand for the below parts
“In the contract, Dassault wants to be held responsible for only the first 18 aircraft to be supplied by it along with the kits to be supplied by it for the remaining 108 aircraft to be produced by the HAL in India but the Defence Ministry wants it to take responsibility for the quality and timely delivery of all the 126 aircraft.”

On seeing the Mumbai Mazagon Dock submarine building of French Scorpion they would have decided that working with Indians they should not consider time…they can’t force Indians to work in time
The long list of delay in HAL/DRDO would have made them to think

We can move to Euro fighter…they open their hands wide just to get the order…but they will adjust with it as they what only money and order…no matter they can point hands on Indians for the delay…Here the French want everything to set perfect [Delivery time] before proceeding to contract signing…what is wrong in this? They don’t want the delay’s happening to be pointed towards them like we point to Russians in INS Vikramaditya..thatz the reason they say 18 that has to be manufactured in France they will take ownership on them.

 

[godofwar]

IAF asked 643 "questions" to all MMRCA contenders.

Even than you SUSPECT there DECISION??

bhai mere pehle padh toh le maine kya likha hai...assumptions mat bna...
I asked if IAF is going for Rafale because of its better capability in A2G role as compared to MKI.
Where did I question the decision of IAF.Tu quote karke bta mujhe.

Anyways that post was made to increase my post count to 30 so I could post mentions in another thread.Mujhe already pta tha ek reason yeh bhi hai.

@Dash tu bhi bta...maine IAF ko question kahan pe kiya...pta nhi kithon muh chak ke aa jaande criticize karne...

 

[Koovie]

What is wrong in the Dassault’s stand for the below parts
“In the contract, Dassault wants to be held responsible for only the first 18 aircraft to be supplied by it along with the kits to be supplied by it for the remaining 108 aircraft to be produced by the HAL in India but the Defence Ministry wants it to take responsibility for the quality and timely delivery of all the 126 aircraft.”

If thats the main problem, I can fully understand Dassaults stand on this. Any company would not want to take responsibility for this.

 

[hkmarine55]

I really dont know why Indian people think RAFALE is the BEST of All.It may be due to paid Adds by RAFALE n Indian news CHannels. Carrier based rafale will be the best fighter gaurding our sea and Can be used as a Land attack aircraft and Nuke carriers But 184+ rafale ? I dont think its in intrest of Indian Airforce. We need t mix up the deal we need to go for 124 rafale (since we went too far on negotiation) and 80+ EF as a Interceptors and Front line fighter with Su 30 and Super

 

[Koovie]

troll put on ignore list

Still not a single source or statement eh?

Man, PDF is full of newbies these day

 

[hkmarine55]

m sure 80+ Eurofighter + 260 Sukoi MKI + 40+ Supr Sukoi with 80+ Rafale support (deep Strike on Instalation) we can destroy any threat from our CHINA or Pakistan . Aircraft Carrier with rafale is a diffrent ball game.Its the best carrier bassed fighter at sea against su 33,f 18 etc... I dent mention Tejas MK2,AMCA and Pakfa will have great A2G role

 

[Koovie]

I really dont know why Indian people think RAFALE is the BEST of All.It may be due to paid Adds by RAFALE n Indian news CHannels. Carrier based rafale will be the best fighter gaurding our sea and Can be used as a Land attack aircraft and Nuke carriers But 184+ rafale ? I dont think its in intrest of Indian Airforce. We need t mix up the deal we need to go for 124 rafale (since we went too far on negotiation) and 80+ EF as a Interceptors and Front line fighter with Su 30 and Super

Nonsense.

1. EFT and Rafale were selected by the IAF.
2. Rafale was selected because it was more economically to opt for it.
3. Having EFTs and Rafales will be logistically and politically nightmare.